Punishing the ignorant

[Wertbag]

One point often raised is that Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil, having not eaten of the fruit, and hence no understanding that their action was evil.  God punished them regardless of their ignorance.  This can be seen again when Moses goes to collect the 10 commandments, but upon returning to camp found they were worshipping a golden calf, so set about slaughtering 3000 of his countrymen...  all victims who had not yet seen commandment 2 banning graven images.

We have the Egyptian first born, ignorant of the crimes of their parents or those in power, punished for the crimes of others.

We have the Amalekites, slaughtered for failing to hand over their homes, including killing the children, infants and even animals, all of whom were ignorant of the conflict.

The babies drowned in the flood, the babies burnt to death in Sodom or any of the animal sacrifices.  The bible is full of cases of people punished for crimes they didn't commit or had no idea were even considerations.

 

In the opposite vain we have quotes like Duet 24:16 "Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin." or Ezekiel 18:20 "The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them."

This seems an obvious contradiction, being different authors in different time periods, each coming to conclusions that matched their personal ideals.

 

Another area this causes problems, is salvation.  For the millions of Christians who hold to a faith only salvation message, it has to be asked what happens to those people who are ignorant of God, Jesus and the bible?  Either they are judged less harshly, in which case missionary work is pure evil, or they are punished for what they are ignorant of.  Frank Turek took this track, saying they would burn in hell and if God meant to save them, He would have made it happen.

It was this horrific idea that drove the development of competing ideas such as universal salvation, where an all-loving God is not punishing people for their lack of knowledge.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Then there's Jesus in Mark who clearly does NOT want everyone to be saved, so speaks in parables so only the disciples will be saved. But even they are said to be "dull", and Jesus isn't impressed that he has to explain. Kinda different than the evangelist saying "Just begin to reach out to him and he'll be there 1000% for you!"

 

[Dsred19]

1 hour ago, Fuego said:

Then there's Jesus in Mark who clearly does NOT want everyone to be saved, so speaks in parables so only the disciples will be saved. But even they are said to be "dull", and Jesus isn't impressed that he has to explain. Kinda different than the evangelist saying "Just begin to reach out to him and he'll be there 1000% for you!"

 

And yet I have read stories of many people both here and on other sites begging him to show them the truth of the Bible and nothing happens.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

10 hours ago, Dsred19 said:

And yet I have read stories of many people both here and on other sites begging him to show them the truth of the Bible and nothing happens.

 

Same with prayers of healing. All the speaking in gibberish, all the loud proclaiming, all the binding this and that spirit, all the anointing with oil, all the tithing and offerings, all the dedication to worship, the endless tears and prayers, all of it yield nothing because the stories are made up and the characters not real. It is a system of control and is used to extract money from those who need it far more than a church. Now the cult wants to gain political power and rule over everyone, and it looks like people are starting to get a clue about the bizarre beliefs that grip so many who think it is all literally true. Again, a system of control used to justify the cruelty and constant pretending.

[older]

12 hours ago, Fuego said:

all the tithing and offerings

and the tithing and offerings, and the tithing and offerings, and the tithing and offerings, and the tithing and offerings, etc. etc. ad infinitum.

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

21 minutes ago, older said:

and the tithing and offerings, and the tithing and offerings, and the tithing and offerings, and the tithing and offerings, etc. etc. ad infinitum.So

Sounds like what my mom used to call a 'broken record'