My Declaration of Independence

[Casualfanboy16]

Hello, everyone reading this. My good friend @Weezer suggested that I post my "Declaration of Independence" that I've been working on to this section of the forum. Mods, feel free to move it to any other place if this isn't the right one. Also, feel free to critique it. I would like feedback on how to improve it. Thank you. Anyways, here it is!

 

Mom and Dad, I have something I have been wanting to say to the both of you. As you may have noticed, I have been more withdrawn than I used to be. I have been less talkative and I have been struggling a lot lately with some things.

 

I want to let you know that before I say what I need to say, I appreciate you as parents. I love you and that won't change. I also appreciate all the time and effort you put into raising me into the person I am today.

 

I understand your worries and concerns you have about the direction my life is going in. I understand that I'm not always the best at articulating what I need to say, but please listen to me for a moment:

 

I need space to grow. Whether it be with making friends and socializing with others like me, working towards independence, and other similar things. One day, I will have to leave the nest. I am 21 now; and would like to be respected not only as an individual, but also as an adult with their own wants, needs, and desires.

 

I want to be able to go out and make friends with people I can relate to. People I can connect with, and share both common interests and common experiences with, since it's difficult to find people like me in this area, and my options feel very limited. I would like to go out for the day and meet others and make new connections.

 

Furthermore, on leaving the nest, while I have made no official plans to move out quite yet, I have checked for available apartments in a variety of areas. Unfortunately with high rent prices, it may not be entirely possible to live alone. So in order for me to succeed in that area, I may have to find a roommate or two to cut down on rent and other living expenses, and help around the place whenever possible.

 

So, to conclude this, I would like to thank you again for raising me up from birth, all the dedication you have put into making me the man I am today, and the man I will continue to be in years to come as I mature and grow as a person. I appreciate you more than you could ever know. However, I need to spread my wings a little before I fly the nest. And I would appreciate it if I could have a little more freedom to meet with others similar to me, to be more independent, and work towards a future where I can be the best version of me that I can be. And while I would like more independence, I still need your help, and wouldn't like to be thrown to the wolves, so to speak.

 

Before I end it off, I just want to say: Thank you for being there for me, because it is with your love and support that I will be able to soar".

 

 So yeah hopefully that's good! I've been working on it for a few days. I would also like to credit @DarkBishop and some other of my internet friends for proofreading and suggesting changes/edits. Hopefully this can be used as like a template or whatever for others struggling with kind of overbearing religious parents or similar situations. Let me know what you think in the comments!

[pantheory]

CFB 16,

 

It sounds good to me. Any good parent would appreciate such a formally planned and stated declaration. Always remember that, regardless of your age, when living with your parents or someone mostly helping to support you, that you must follow their rules and realize that they believe they have your best interests at heart. Even if you rent a room in someone's house, you have to follow their rules. Only when no one is supporting you financially (place of living etc), will you have the freedom to clearly do only what you want.

 

best of luck to you, pantheory

[Casualfanboy16]

57 minutes ago, pantheory said:

CFB 16,

 

It sounds good to me. Any good parent would appreciate such a formally planned and stated declaration. Always remember, however, when living with your parents or someone mostly helping to support you, that you must bend to their rules and realize that they believe they have your best interests at heart. Only when no one is supporting you financially (place of living etc), will you have the independence to clearly do only what you want to do.

 

best of luck to you, pantheory

Yes, I do realize that. I understand that they want to help guide me in the direction that they think is best for me, and ultimately, I won't have true freedom until I leave and gain full independence.

 

However, I cannot bend to their rules entirely anymore. I tried to make more friends like me many months ago, but I didn't stand up to them. I remained complacent and obedient. My parents tried to push me in the direction of making Christian friends. They made me have multiple chats with the pastor, either alone, with me and my Mom and Dad, or me and my sister. One of the meetings they even scheduled without my knowledge, and I went anyway instead of refusing. I did as they asked, and tried to bend to what they wanted, but it's not reasonable. I'm tired of being treated almost as if I have to be a completely different person to make them feel okay.

 

Yeah, I get it. Their house, their rules. But I can't take this whole trying to nudge me in the "right direction" anymore. I am not happy that for the longest time, I never stood up to them. I'm also unhappy that they refuse to listen to me, and make it difficult to make friends with people like me because above all, their beliefs seem more important. I'm unhappy that they continue to believe in prejudiced views that LGBT people are these mentally unwell drug-addicts/sex-addicts.

 

The main problem with bending to their rules is that I am sacrificing not only my mental health, but part of my identity, my ability to be confident in myself, my ability to meet people like me, etc, etc.

 

My family can talk about God and Jesus and church all they want, but me talking about my sexuality becomes a whole thing. Which is why we never really talk about it. I need to be open. If they can be open, I should be allowed to as well. It doesn't seem fair that they can let their light shine, but I have to hide mine under a bushel to keep things "normal", I guess. 

 

Edit: Not to mention they have a space where they can be themselves and worship God, while for me, the nearest LGBT meetup is like an hour or two away and the LGBT community is unfortunately extremely scarce here in a more rural, Conservative-leaning area. I have no support either because all my friends left for college and are kept busy pursuing their own stuff.

[pantheory]

I realize you want to stand up for yourself. They should allow you to get out and choose your own friends, but I think you must understand that it is their right to allow who they think is appropriate in their house. Maybe, their rules inside the house, and more freedom for you outside the house?

 

It seems that they don't want to talk to you about your sexuality, which is naive of them, but few Christians want to talk about such things. So when you get a job that pays enough for you to move out, then you can play by your own rules. I don't think it would be a good idea to find a man to support you now either. Such men could have their own rules that you must live by, which could end in unhappiness for you. It seems to me that you need to either go to school as an adult, or find a job to support yourself. Of course more schooling can often lead to better paying jobs.

[Casualfanboy16]

14 minutes ago, pantheory said:

I realize you want to stand up for yourself. They should allow you to get out and choose your own friends, but I think you must understand that it is their right to allow who they think is appropriate in their house. Maybe, their rules inside the house, and more freedom for you outside the house.

 

It seems that they don't want to talk to you about your sexuality, which is naive of them, but few Christians want to talk about such things. So when you get a job that pays enough for you to move, then you can play by your own rules. I don't think it would be a good idea to find a man to support you now either. Such men could have their own rules that you must live by, which could end in unhappiness for you. It seems to me that you need to either go to school as an adult, or find a job to support yourself. Of course more schooling can lead to a better paying job.

Yes, I do understand. But I would like more freedom to be myself at least outside the house. But to judge an entire community like they're all  mentally ill drug-addicts is blatantly wrong and rooted in bigotry. Christians do fucked up things too. If they don't want them in their house, that's fine. I don't particularly like it, but whatever. Their house, their rules. But I shouldn't be kept from finding others like me or visting others' houses because my parents don't like them.  It's literally turned me into a recluse almost, and that is part of the reason why I wrote all of the above post. I am not well and my parents are not helping. I hope you understand.

 

Also, I wasn't thinking about finding a man right now though? Did I imply that somewhere? I just simply want people to relate to. As for roommates, it doesn't matter their sexuality. I just need help because inflation sucks and it's hard to pay rent with one person alone.

[Casualfanboy16]

1 hour ago, pantheory said:

but I think you must understand that it is their right to allow who they think is appropriate in their house.

And yes, I do understand this, however, it's the assumption they're making that LGBT people are all fucked up mentally and on drugs, and that they're bad influences is what's bothering me.

 

Also, one of my old friends was what my parents would consider a bad influence, but they still allowed him over. I just find it odd that he could do things one would consider inappropriate. Like vaping a shit ton and occasionally sneaking out whenever we had him over at our house and he would go on walks down our road at 1 AM and doing stuff that others would consider dangerous and stupid. But they draw the line at someone simply being LGBT? That doesn't add up. It's blatantly homophobic.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

3 hours ago, Casualfanboy16 said:

And yes, I do understand this, however, it's the assumption they're making that LGBT people are all fucked up mentally and on drugs, and that they're bad influences is what's bothering me.

 

Also, one of my old friends was what my parents would consider a bad influence, but they still allowed him over. I just find it odd that he could do things one would consider inappropriate. Like vaping a shit ton and occasionally sneaking out whenever we had him over at our house and he would go on walks down our road at 1 AM and doing stuff that others would consider dangerous and stupid. But they draw the line at someone simply being LGBT? That doesn't add up. It's blatantly homophobic.

 

Your parents aren't the only ones like that.  

[Casualfanboy16]

Just now, Weezer said:

 

Your parents aren't the only ones like that.  

Yeahhh. I know.

[Casualfanboy16]

3 minutes ago, Weezer said:

 

Your parents aren't the only ones like that.  

Yeah, I know. Still very much sucks though.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

1 hour ago, Casualfanboy16 said:

Yeah, I know. Still very much sucks though.

Have they forbide you to meet or visit with gays anywhere?

[Casualfanboy16]

8 hours ago, Weezer said:

Have they forbide you to meet or visit with gays anywhere?

 Not recently. But sometime last year I tried to have a conversation with my parents about this and they made a big deal out of it. 

 

I thought about just going several times before, but unfortunately I was still in a state where I couldn't just do that because my parents' hold on me was too strong. That's what I'm hoping that's what this "Declaration of Independence" will accomplish. Pantheory is right though. Their house, their rules. Which is why I want to get out of the house and go to an LGBT meetup or whatever. So I'm not at the house, and not bound by said rules while out and about. And moving out will eventually happen too, so I'll have that to look forward to once I find a place. I feel like I can start tasting freedom.

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

There seems to me to be a middle way to declare your independence, Casual. And that is the suggestion from your previous thread about the end of your rope. 

 

I'm going to nag you about this because I think you can have a win all around if you try this. Have you spoken to your parents about taking college classes before? Would they be supportive? Maybe you can talk to them about what they'd suggest would be a good class or two to take and you could go from there. 

 

In my day, I'd pick up a catalogue from the community college near me and just see what's available that sounds good. Now you can view it all online without leaving your house, so see what's there and then talk to your folks about it. I looked into summer dance class, for example, and then see what it would require to take it. 

 

Once you take that first step into stepping out, hopefully with your parents' approval, then the sky is the limit! You'll meet people and make connections. 

 

Hang in there, kiddo. 

[Casualfanboy16]

37 minutes ago, moxieflux66 said:

I'm going to nag you about this because I think you can have a win all around if you try this. Have you spoken to your parents about taking college classes before? Would they be supportive? Maybe you can talk to them about what they'd suggest would be a good class or two to take and you could go from there. 

I did mention the community college thing from that thread. They would be supportive, but my parents don't see the value in me going to college if I'm not entirely sure with what I want to do because I would be wasting money. While I do see their point, @older did say that was the point of community college. To like, take a few classes to see if you'd like them. So maybe I can try again. I could go for a Creative Writing class. Maybe an English course or something idk.

[TABA]

1 hour ago, Casualfanboy16 said:

I could go for a Creative Writing class. Maybe an English course or something idk.

Just be clear-headed about the fact that you need to earn a living if you want to be independent.  You need to learn a skill that people are willing to pay for.   You might enjoy Creative Writing or English classes, but they unfortunately tend to not get you a living wage.  Not saying you shouldn’t take these classes, but they should be in ADDITION to classes that can get you gainfully employed.  

[older]

1 hour ago, Casualfanboy16 said:

but my parents don't see the value in me going to college if I'm not entirely sure with what I want to do because I would be wasting money. While I do see their point, @older did say that was the point of community college.

I'll chime in again here with a way to refute this. Suppose someone goes to the market and walks down the aisle where all the potato chips, tortilla chips and so on are. There are 20 or 30 varieties. They've never tasted any of them. And there are small bags, medium bags and large bags of each. They aren't "entirely sure" what to get, but they want some chips. Would they buy a large bag or a small bag? Would it be a waste of money if they bought a small bag and then decided they didn't like them? No. What they learned for that money is that they don't like those chips. If they hadn't bought those chips they'd never know if they liked them or not.  And they are not stuck with a large bag of chips that will go to waste.

 

So making a choice about school without sampling first is like buying the chips. A person who maps out a plan without sampling first could get stuck with a large bag of academic stuff that they don't like. In fact, that's what general education courses are for — sampling. (The average college student changes majors three times.)

 

So not only is it NOT a waste of money, but it is an investment in learning the route you don't want to follow, and also perhaps finding something that you hadn't previously thought of. How many people are there who are trapped in a profession that they hate because they made a "wrong investment" in their schooling and had bought the large bag and were stuck with it?

 

(And if you pay the minimal community college fee out of your own funds then the cost is not your parents' problem. Check with the financial aid office. Not all scholarships require you to be living on the street. I was on scholarship committees that didn't award any money because no one applied.)

 

 

[freshstart]

3 hours ago, Casualfanboy16 said:

my parents don't see the value in me going to college if I'm not entirely sure with what I want to do because I would be wasting money

As a college prof, I may be a little biased here, but picking up some "general education" courses (generally required by all colleges) wouldn't necessarily be a waste of time. These are typically prerequisite courses for ANY major (stuff like introductory level psychology, sociology, math, history, etc.). By taking this course work, you expose yourself to other students and professors from different walks of life and you learn about the paths that others are taking. You can also try taking a course you normally wouldn't find "useful," but seems appealing. Stepping outside the proverbial box sometimes reveals new possibilities. Best of luck to you!

[Casualfanboy16]

1 hour ago, older said:

I'll chime in again here with a way to refute this. Suppose someone goes to the market and walks down the aisle where all the potato chips, tortilla chips and so on are. There are 20 or 30 varieties. They've never tasted any of them. And there are small bags, medium bags and large bags of each. They aren't "entirely sure" what to get, but they want some chips. Would they buy a large bag or a small bag? Would it be a waste of money if they bought a small bag and then decided they didn't like them? No. What they learned for that money is that they don't like those chips. If they hadn't bought those chips they'd never know if they liked them or not.  And they are not stuck with a large bag of chips that will go to waste.

 

So making a choice about school without sampling first is like buying the chips. A person who maps out a plan without sampling first could get stuck with a large bag of academic stuff that they don't like. In fact, that's what general education courses are for — sampling. (The average college student changes majors three times.)

 

So not only is it NOT a waste of money, but it is an investment in learning the route you don't want to follow, and also perhaps finding something that you hadn't previously thought of. How many people are there who are trapped in a profession that they hate because they made a "wrong investment" in their schooling and had bought the large bag and were stuck with it?

 

(And if you pay the minimal community college fee out of your own funds then the cost is not your parents' problem. Check with the financial aid office. Not all scholarships require you to be living on the street. I was on scholarship committees that didn't award any money because no one applied.)

 

 

This is a very good point. Don't knock it till you try it, I guess could be the lesson here, basically. I guess I could do some browsing. I literally have no idea what to do in my life, but maybe testing out some stuff I think I'll enjoy wouldn't be too bad. Might have to work two jobs to cover tuition though. Too expensive.

 

I could look for creative writing courses, and whatever else too. I hate being so indecisive about my life path though. Between community college, trade schools, and the like... I just don't know what I'm doing.

 

I wish I could get into the writing spirit somehow. I know people say my writing's good, but I don't feel like it's that good. Besides, I don't know what I'd do if I were to write as a career. It does seem exciting, and there are many possibilities, but then comes the issue of trying to make a living out of it. I could try it out, but would it be worth it? Then I gotta consider other options too, of course. I'll have to look into this more. I'm not entirely sure of myself right now. Kinda scary lol. But I will try something out eventually. Maybe you are right and community college might work out and I'll somehow be a great writer one day. I just don't know what for.

[Casualfanboy16]

29 minutes ago, freshstart said:

As a college prof, I may be a little biased here, but picking up some "general education" courses (generally required by all colleges) wouldn't necessarily be a waste of time. These are typically prerequisite courses for ANY major (stuff like introductory level psychology, sociology, math, history, etc.). By taking this course work, you expose yourself to other students and professors from different walks of life and you learn about the paths that others are taking. You can also try taking a course you normally wouldn't find "useful," but seems appealing. Stepping outside the proverbial box sometimes reveals new possibilities. Best of luck to you!

I suppose you're right. I probably do need to step out of the proverbial box. Maybe I'll like it and right now I'm just trying to convince myself it's not worth it. Something like that. I think writing could be good for me. Maybe I should practice something? But what? And yeah I could check out other things. Just not sure what. Photography maybe? I don't really know lol.

[Casualfanboy16]

Heyyyy! While I haven't officially decided on a community college yet... I got myself thinking. I was writing a list of interest and skills earlier (see below) and I thought of something. Maybe I could try being a game dev? Idk how much they make in terms of money, and I have no knowledge of programming, but I figured it'd be fun. It combines a lot of my skills and interests, so I figured what the hell lol.

 

Programming became a recent interest though. A lot of my interests and skills allign with that sorta thing. I couldn't really come up with any skills tho lol. I had trouble naming them. I know I have more skills than just 2. I just don't know what to call them.  

 

Anyway, the list....

 

Skills
• I have a creative mind once an idea pops in there and I overcome the art block
• I can be persistent when I need to be

Interests
• Art
• Animation
• Videogames
• Music
• Writing/Storytelling
• Programming

 

So yeah this could be something. Just not sure how profitable it could be.....

[older]

Don't think about profit at this point. As Freshstart writes, take the G.E. courses first, in little baby steps, one class at a time. Take another course for fun. Almost all of this can be done with night classes if you have a day job. 

 

And be sure to apply for financial aid. Many of the students I had at the university were on some sort of aid or scholarship. Even if the aid doesn't cover it all, a few hundred bucks helps.

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

9 hours ago, freshstart said:

As a college prof, I may be a little biased here, but picking up some "general education" courses (generally required by all colleges) wouldn't necessarily be a waste of time. These are typically prerequisite courses for ANY major (stuff like introductory level psychology, sociology, math, history, etc.). By taking this course work, you expose yourself to other students and professors from different walks of life and you learn about the paths that others are taking. You can also try taking a course you normally wouldn't find "useful," but seems appealing. Stepping outside the proverbial box sometimes reveals new possibilities. Best of luck to you!

I was older than you when I first went to community college, at the urging of my de-programmer/mentor. I fought like hell against the idea since I had no confidence at all I could pull it off. I had two kids, an hour and a half commute to get there and no money. 

 

My mentor helped me apply for student aid and I began taking classes in the spring, all General Ed classes, including English. There's plenty of creative writing involved in college level writing in any course but just the basic requirement is challenging enough. 

 

I had to go twice a week, Tuesday/Thursday courses for 2 years, all part time, until such time as I couldn't avoid the rest of the classes that required Monday through Friday attendance. But by then I had a much better grasp on what I wanted to do. 

 

I finally got my AA degree three and a half years later, but the experience was priceless, no matter how costly you might think it to be. It was the best decision of my life. 

 

I see you trying to figure it all out at once. That's trying too hard. Relax and browse the catalogue of the NEAREST community college to you. I didn't have any other choices, so if you do that's great! It would still benefit you to visit a counselor for all this. 

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Stop thinking about buying the whole grocery store!!  Just sample a small bag of chips!     You need to do something to just get you out of the house and see what is going on in the real world.  Are there places where young people hang out theses days?  Do colleges still have student centers where people can go and hang out?  Or is that a thing from the past??   

 

As Older(?) said, sometimes people change majors 2 or 3 times.  And many adults completely change careers 2 or 3 (or more) times in their lives.  I was a car nut in high school and thought drag racing and working on cars was what I wanted to do.  Got an AA in auto mechanics and wasted thousands of dollars drag racing for 4 years.  Finally decided I didn't want to do that the rest of my life, especially after a stint in the Air Force which got me out of the sticks in Oklahoma and on the east coast a while.  (I joined the AF because I was about to get drafted into the Army) I was still going to church then and there were several professional people who went to the liberal church I attended.  Due to those and other life circumstances, and some people I met as a mechanic, I decided to finish a degree in the behavioral sciences.  Worked in adoption and foster care of children and counseling with families for 20 years.  Then went into psychiatric programs for 16 years.  I did NOT waste time and money getting mechanics training.  Have saved thousands of dollars through the years fixing our own cars.  Made money on the side working on cars.  Told some of my clients who were short on money how to fix their own cars.  Enjoyed being creative and doing custom work on the side for people, and for myself as a hobby.  The moral to this story??

 

Casual, our country is a smorgaus board of things to do.  And once you get out there and mix with different people, the world opens up.  I was from a small rural town like you and the immediate role models around me were great people, but had not much interest in anything else.  Including the religion they were in.  I go back there and visit at least yearly, and many of them have been happy all along the way.  But I am glad I was more or less forced to get out and see the world.  I very likely would not be on this forum and writing to you, if I had never left rural Oklahoma.   Don't spend all your time on your phone and computor, and don't just sit around your parents hosue.  At your age about the only time I spent at home, was to sleep.  And I was 23 years old when I finally moved out.  My first place to rent was an old converted garage with the drive door screwed shut, a bare concrete floor, and walk into shower at one corner that had a dingy old curtain across it.  I used a hot plate to cook on.  The toilet did have a short wall to hide it.  It wasn't in the best part of town, but wasn't in a dangerous area.  Don't set your goals too high.

 

I am NOT saying jump into the big old world all at once, but do Just one thing at a time to expand your view and options. Only you can decide what that will be.  Perhaps it is simply (as already suggested) getting some information on line about your local community college, or an activity you are interested in.  Or doing volunteer work at a homeless shelter.  Or hospital. Or meals on wheels for old and disabled people. Etc.  No telling who you will meet along the way.  Ha!  It could be a closet gay like yourself.  The smorgaus board is out there.  You just need to go take a look.

[Casualfanboy16]

7 hours ago, Weezer said:

I am NOT saying jump into the big old world all at once, but do Just one thing at a time to expand your view and options. Only you can decide what that will be.  Perhaps it is simply (as already suggested) getting some information on line about your local community college, or an activity you are interested in.  Or doing volunteer work at a homeless shelter.  Or hospital. Or meals on wheels for old and disabled people. Etc.  No telling who you will meet along the way.  Ha!  It could be a closet gay like yourself.  The smorgaus board is out there.  You just need to go take a look.

I'm actually going to look into community colleges whenever I get the chance today. I'm a bit busy right now lol. I might check out stuff involving computers and programming because, while this is a very recent development (like, yesterday), I decided to dip my toes into coding/programming. I have no idea what I'm doing, but it was surprisingly fun and new and interesting. Perhaps a new avenue just opened up for me? There's lots of possibilities with coding. I could check out other things involving computers too.

 

I know you said not to spend all my time on my computer, but coding is kinda fun. I didn't do too much. Mostly just did basic print and math things while being super confused about everything and I had one of my more experienced coder friends walk me through some stuff. I enjoyed it though. I'm going to look into tutorials later, but perhaps there's college classes I could go to for website development or some other thing related to that. Perhaps a coding club is out there somewhere??? A tech school???? Idk, but just a thought. Thanks for the talk though. I'm going to look into community colleges around here more and perhaps I'll find a coding class or club or something along those lines and take some kinda art thing for fun? And other stuff too, of course, but it could be exciting! I'll check out some community colleges and send you them at some point. Not sure about today, but at some point.

 

Edit: According to the minimal research I've done, it appears these sorts of jobs involving programming are in high demand due to the ever-expanding world of technology and such. Not the exact wording, but they did mention high in demand. Still looking into community college stuff surrounding technology, especially programming. I'll send you stuff about that.

[older]

8 hours ago, Weezer said:

Finally decided I didn't want to do that the rest of my life, especially after a stint in the Air Force which got me out of the sticks in Oklahoma and on the east coast a while.  (I joined the AF because I was about to get drafted into the Army)

  

That sounds familiar. For me, instead of racing it was as a theatre techie (some time I'll tell you about my one trip as a roadie) and instead of the Air Force it was the Navy. What I learned in the theatre is that it's fun but you can't earn a living at it. In the Navy I learned that I didn't want to work for idiots, morons and bullies. That and a temp job with the post office right after I got out sorting packages and loading trucks (seven tons of packages per man per night) for the Christmas rush were two of the big things that screwed my head on straight. I think that a certain amount of suffering is good for one's development.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

2 hours ago, older said:

I think that a certain amount of suffering is good for one's development.

 

Very true!