Killing over symbols

[Wertbag]

I heard a story about some of the Knight Templars who would spit on the cross.  Their theory was that it was the symbol of Jesus dying, his pain and suffering, so they hated that which ended him.  When the church in Europe found out they had those Templars tortured and burnt at the stake, because they saw the cross as a symbol of salvation.  The exact same symbol, from different perspectives, taken to have such important meaning that someone seeing a different meaning is worthy of death.

The Muslims are famous for this.  Disrespect the prophet or the Quran and you get the death penalty, but Christians have been just as brutal when their symbols are disrespected.  One test non-Christian armies did was to put a bible on the ground and ask their soldiers to step on it.  Non-Christians could do so without problem, but Christians would refuse to do so, even if it meant they would be killed.

 

Christians often point to Catholics as worshipping idols, for their reverence to statues, roseries, or relics, all the while being convinced of holy ground, holy water and holy symbols of their own.  "He defiled this holy place" as though the ground itself is special because of people worshipping there.

You have images of Christ in toast, oil stains or dogs butts, and people will worship (all except for the dog butt I guess) these symbols.  Yet none of these things do anything or have any meaning outside of what the person assigns to it.  No one is struck down for defiling a bible, a holy place or drinking the holy water.  These things are not magical, give no powers and are not special to anyone not taught to believe so.

 

It is fascinating just what people can be convinced of.  That people will have such a mind blowing reaction to seeing such mundane things and places.  There are Christians weeping when they go to the potential tombs, but they have the same reaction to any of the 5 suggested sites that Jesus could have been buried at, so the site itself does nothing, it is purely the people imagining such deep meaning to an otherwise empty room.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

1 hour ago, Wertbag said:

Yet none of these things do anything or have any meaning outside of what the person assigns to it.  No one is struck down for defiling a bible, a holy place or drinking the holy water.  These things are not magical, give no powers and are not special to anyone not taught to believe so.

 

People and their symbols. I see it a lot here in America with the flag, various other flags from the revolution or civil war, the cross, blowing shofar horns, anointing things with olive oil with frankincense and myrrh, sprinkling their language with Hebrew words to sound more bible-based, monuments to the 10-Commandments, on and on with symbols. But it's all imaginary. That's why it's so frustrating in current American politics to see how one branch of "Christian" is actively trying to take over and enforce a Taliban-like set of rules for everyone to obey. It's like truly believing Spiderman is real and forcing his image in every classroom to remind the kids about his sticky web of love. Creepy and until recently illegal. That's also why they get so upset about an altar of Satan alongside a nativity display. They think it's all real. Heck, we used to. But they ignore the complete non-response of God, or the absurdity of killing on behalf of a god (like the hypocrite Gideon). 

 

[older]

Symbols. Some years back there was a tree out in the country near here that a large branch had broken off. The believers said the scar was the image of the Virgin Mary. Folks would drive out there and pray. The local news ran a story about it and several weeks later someone cut the tree down.

 

And if you're in need, you can still get the Holy Toast stamper from Archie McFee. Press it into a piece of bread before you toast it and an image of the Virgin Mary appears after the bread is toasted. Only $7.50 plus shipping and handling. https://mcphee.com/collections/religion/products/holy-toast

They have a couple of other Jesus items including the well-known Dashboard Jesus and the Jesus bandages (they will help you heal — free prize inside). (And they still have the whoopee cushion and the emotional support chicken.)

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

3 hours ago, Fuego said:

It's like truly believing Spiderman is real and forcing his image in every classroom to remind the kids about his sticky web of love.

I love that! Do we get a choice between that and the ten commandments? 

[walterpthefirst]

Perhaps a lot of people require easy answers to difficult questions.

 

Where did everything come from?  What is the meaning of life?  Why is there suffering in the world?  Is there a life after death?  What happens to me after I die?

 

Symbols offer a way of boiling down all of these difficult things down into a kind of emotionally satisfying visual comforter than can be sucked on without thinking.

 

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

A visual security blanket. 

[pantheory]

yeah, killing over symbols is a sad legacy of Christianity. As stated, Catholics are certainly one of the biggest involving symbolism in Christianity. Many of their statues are thought to have special powers including medals commemorating Saints. As you said, Moslems are not very symbolic concerning their worship, but very forceful when anyone disrespects their religion. Hindus also look to statues for worship and respect. Many "pagan" religions involve statues as symbols to pray to.

 

According to the Bible, the Jews of Moses were less committed to monotheism, and when Moses was gone while supposedly getting the 10 commandments, the Jews fell prey to creating a golden calf as their idle God symbol to worship in Moses' absence. Sad story  

[older]

2 hours ago, pantheory said:

Catholics are certainly one of the biggest involving symbolism in Christianity.

  

I don't have a source for this but someone wrote that they get down on their knees and pretend that Jesus was made out of bread and then they eat him. Ritualistic cannibalism. 

 

Seriously, though, having had many phenomenal and touching experiences in nature, I understand how those who have lived without the tools of science could ascribe natural events to a supernatural force. But that is perhaps secondary to the issue of killing those who don't accept someone else's interpretation of that supernatural force. And in today's world it's hard to understand those who reject scientific evidence, and who can't cope with questions to which there are no answers. Perhaps it just comes down to, as Weezer suggests, fear. 

[Casualfanboy16]

7 minutes ago, older said:

I don't have a source for this but someone wrote that they get down on their knees and pretend that Jesus was made out of bread and then they eat him. Ritualistic cannibalism. 

I find it funny that I wrote a story in the Creative Works section about that sort of concept.

 

Edit: Found it! It's a bit graphic. Not my best work because I just went pure shock factor, but trust me... I can improve. You decide whether that's a good thing or not after reading it!!!

 

 

 

[pantheory]

17 hours ago, older said:

  

I don't have a source for this but someone wrote that they get down on their knees and pretend that Jesus was made out of bread and then they eat him. Ritualistic cannibalism. 

 

Seriously, though, having had many phenomenal and touching experiences in nature, I understand how those who have lived without the tools of science could ascribe natural events to a supernatural force. But that is perhaps secondary to the issue of killing those who don't accept someone else's interpretation of that supernatural force. And in today's world it's hard to understand those who reject scientific evidence, and who can't cope with questions to which there are no answers. Perhaps it just comes down to, as Weezer suggests, fear. 

 

Yeah, in the Catholic church this is called Holy communion. You get down on your knees at the alter and a priest gives you a very small flat bread-like wafer that symbolizes the body of Christ, and you drink a little grape juice like liquid symbolizing the blood of Christ. Supposedly you are communing with Christ's Crucifixion whereby he sacrificed his body and blood to alleviate us from original sin. Roughly 10-20 percent of the congregation does this each Sunday. You must go to confession first to do this -- but no one really knows who went. Neither the wafer nor the juice has much size or taste to it. The wafer generally melts in your mouth without chewing.

 

In poorer areas of the world there was no refrigeration for the grape juice so it naturally fermented making communion a more pleasant experience, as long as there was enough of it available when you give the priest what he wants For children they must be at least 7-8 years old