Hello, everyone

[Purplecat]

In the past I never thought I would ever doubt Christianity but now it's happening and I don't know what to do. I'll give a (hopefully) quick summary of my life story so anyone reading this will have at least a bit of context.

 

I was born and raised in a conservative Christian household and was very devout for over two decades. When I was a kid I mostly just did what I was told and believed what I thought I was supposed to believe. In my late teen years I started thinking about my beliefs a lot more and got really into apologetics; I had a counter-argument for pretty much any argument against Christianity and was absolutely sure that I'd stay a devoted Christian forever. Eventually my family got more involved in Pentecostal circles and I went along with it; I thought God regularly talked with me and that every single coincidence was orchestrated by Him.

Skip ahead a few years and this eventually led me to get engaged to a girl I just started dating and married her less than a year later, despite my family and friends strongly protesting against it, because I thought it was what God wanted. One thing that was pretty stupid about this is that I'm romantically bisexual but not really sexually attracted to women so that has caused some problems. Our marriage isn't too bad considering the circumstances - we both really love each other and support each other and our families no longer think it was a horrible idea for us to get married.

Anyway, after being married for a few years one of my non-Christian family members died and it caused me so much pain and grief, especially "knowing" that he was being tortured for all of eternity. I was already bothered by the concept of Hell since I was told about it at 4 years old, then bothered more when I truly understood the concept of eternity around 13 years old, but this was unbearable. For a few years leading up to my relative's death I was getting more and more bothered thinking about Hell and how most people I would talk to or see walking around outside or on TV would end up being tortured forever. In the past I just told myself that God never did anything wrong so even if I didn't understand it it was still okay, but that became less and less effective as time went on. On some random day I thought about something I didn't really consider before: before this universe existed, God could have created any possible existence imaginable, so why did He create one where the end result was billions, if not trillions, of people being tortured for ever and ever? It was at this point that I started thinking of life as a horrible, nightmarish existence.

One day while I was browsing a debate forum/imageboard thing I saw one comment saying something like "I bet any Christian who watches this video won't stay one after finishing it" with a link to a video about the documentary hypothesis. I decided to watch the video both out of curiosity and to prove him wrong. It was a lot more convincing than I thought it would be. The documentary hypothesis made so much more sense than what I was told all my life about the Bible. I wasn't going to just take this at face value though, so I decided to do some research about the topic and also reread the Bible with that framework in mind to see if it would fall flat at some point. The more I looked into it, the more likely it was that God, or at least the God of the Bible, wasn't real. Instead of feeling sad or hopeless, I felt  hope and joy for the first time in a very long time. Maybe people aren't going to suffer for all eternity after all!

I tried to subtly tell my wife about some of the things I learned but if I said or hinted at anything that went against fundamentalist Christianity she would just get really angry. I gave up rather quickly and now just pretend to be like I was before, except I pray and read the Bible a lot less.

 

Sorry, that was way longer than I thought it would be. I guess now it's time to get to the heart of the matter. I have no idea what to do now for a few reasons:

1. I'm not certain about whether or not Christianity is true (I can go into more detail in a future post if anyone wants)

2. If I do leave Christianity I don't want my friends and family to believe that I'm going to be tortured forever. I know how horrible and painful that is and I wouldn't wish it upon my worse enemy

3. There was one day where my wife said she would "probably divorce [me]" if I ever left Christianity and I really don't want that. Despite everything that's going on I still love her deeply and she's still my best friend

 

I don't know if typing all this will help but I figured it would be better than continuing to do nothing. If anyone else has gone through something similar I'd love to know because I feel so alone and isolated right now. If you've read this far, thank you.

[◊ Krowb ◊]

@Purplecat,

 

Welcome to our community and yes, many of us have trod similar paths to yours.  The concept of Hell can be a very difficult thing for people to move past.  My own mother is deeply concerned about her granddaughter's soul because she hasn't been baptized.  I've merely "gone astray" - Southern Baptist background: once saved always saved.

 

There are plenty of us here to act as a sounding board for you as you work through these issues for yourself.  It is a journey and we all travel by different roads and often land at different destinations.

 

Be sure to let us know if there's anything in particular you'd like to discuss or just get off your chest.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Welcome to our community.  Although the journey you have traveled so far is very familiar to us, the journey ahead is still yours alone.  We are happy to help you along the path; but we will never tell you where the path should lead you to.  That is for you alone to determine.  And there is no pre-determined outcome that is right for everyone.  Wherever your journey takes you, we will walk beside you for as long as we can; and offer experience, strength, and hope as you need it.

 

On a personal note, I would love to hear more about your current view on the truth (or lack thereof) of the christian religion, as well as the healing process you've begun to experience concerning hell.  Hell, for me, is a false dichotomy.  My rationale is somewhat convoluted; but here's a brief synopsis:  The two most critical aspects of "me" are my intellect and my integrity.  These two are so paramount to "me" that I would not be "me" without them.  I would have to betray them both in order to say, "jesus is lord."  So, the only way to get into heaven would be a complete betrayal of my Self; and I would spend eternity with a god who demanded that I betray my Self in order to be with him.  This prospect would be hell for me, as opposed to just regular ol' ordinary hell, where I could be true to who I am.  So, heaven and hell present a false dichotomy, not because there may be more than two options, but because both options are the same--hell.  

[Purplecat]

@Krowb

 

"I've merely "gone astray" - Southern Baptist background: once saved always saved. "
I wish that's what my family believed. They believe pretty much the opposite where if someone leaves Christianity they can never come back no matter how much they want to.

 

"There are plenty of us here to act as a sounding board for you as you work through these issues for yourself.  It is a journey and we all travel by different roads and often land at different destinations.

Be sure to let us know if there's anything in particular you'd like to discuss or just get off your chest."

Thank you for the warm welcome. One thing I'd like to discuss is (alleged) supernatural experiences because that's one of the main things that's making me confused. There are two things I feel comfortable sharing since they're not too personal.

 

1. When I was a kid my family moved to a new house where the previous owner was a demon/devil worshipper. Nearly every night, if not every night, we would hear the sound of a child running up and down the hallway and one day my mom saw a little boy sitting in one of the bedrooms and blood running down the walls. She had no history of seeing hallucinations and is mentally healthy aside from general anxiety. All this stuff went away after my parents learned about fasting & praying and then fasted for a while (I think a couple of weeks) and prayed for any demons to leave the house. Before we moved to that house neither of my parents believed in demons or anything like that.

2. In the same house my friend was over for a sleepover and at night we both saw a man wearing black robes standing in the corner (he looked basically like a Nazgûl from Lord of the Rings). I suppose it's technically possible that someone broke into our house just to stand in the corner and scare some kids, but to be that seems unlikely. I also don't think it was just our minds playing tricks on us because we both saw the same thing and that part of the room was completely bare so we didn't just mistake some furniture or something for it.

[Purplecat]

@TheRedneckProfessor

 

"Welcome to our community.  Although the journey you have traveled so far is very familiar to us, the journey ahead is still yours alone.  We are happy to help you along the path; but we will never tell you where the path should lead you to.  That is for you alone to determine.  And there is no pre-determined outcome that is right for everyone.  Wherever your journey takes you, we will walk beside you for as long as we can; and offer experience, strength, and hope as you need it."

Thank you. I will keep all that in mind.

 

"On a personal note, I would love to hear more about your current view on the truth (or lack thereof) of the christian religion, as well as the healing process you've begun to experience concerning hell."

There are a few things that I think are possible regarding Christianity.

1. It's a religion that was made-up by superstitious people from the Bronze Age Near-East

2. Some parts of the Bible are true and others aren't and God just doesn't intervene regarding that so it's nearly impossible to figure out what the truth is

3. There's an all-powerful being who has the same traits as someone with a cluster B personality disorder

4. There are multiple spiritual beings in existence, one of which is a narcissistic Canaanite deity

 

I don't know if I've begun to experience any kind of healing process yet. On the one hand I'm no longer 100% sure that Hell exists so that's good, but I also know that if God is real and is vengeful then I'll end up going there, so that's bad. I just hope that if God is real, He'll truly be just and not torture me forever. If He exists and is just cruel and self-absorbed, I hope that there's another powerful being who would someday rescue me from Hell.

If God exists, I don't want to go to Heaven or Hell since Hell is... well... Hell, and Heaven is worshipping a God I don't trust for all of eternity. Neither of those sound good to me.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

WELCOME PC!  Hang on!  it may be a rough ride, but trust that the truth will set you free.  It has for me and the others here. The truth will not take away all the problems, but will give you the inner peace you need to pull through.  Your endoctrination was similar to mine in the Church of Christ, with both sides of the family being loyal mambers.  Especially my father doubled down with the fear of Hell, but as I studied the facts, the fear gradually faded away.

 

My first recommendation is to get the book, LEAVING THE FOLD, by Marlene Winell.  It is an excelent resource for dealing with family and friends, and is available as an ebook.  Allow yourself to kinda "hang loose" until you get a sense of direction.  It took me several years to finally open the door completely and step out.  But the inner peace of being my real honest self gave me the strength to endure the rejection by others, and the loneliness from the loss of community.  I was lucky my wife did not leave me.  

 

I also recommend reading some of the stories in the TESTIMONIAL section.  My story is RELIGIOUS TRUTH: A GRADUAL AWAkENING.   And there is another book about dealing with the fear of Hell I will list later.  Off the top of my head, I can't remember the name of it.      LATER!

[◊ Weezer ◊]

The other book is DIABOLICAL TRINITY: Healing religious trauma,  by Mark Karris.  But if you had a secure, nurturing childhood, the fear of Hell may fade away as you study the history of how we got the bible, and the history of Christianity.  I suggest any books/videos by Bart Ehrman.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

10 hours ago, Purplecat said:

 

 

One thing I'd like to discuss is (alleged) supernatural experiences because that's one of the main things that's making me confused.

 

According to a Google search, approx 20% of Americans have had "ghost" sightings.  Some seem to have religious connotations.  Some have not.  One of my unreligious great uncles saw a ghost of his mother walking across the yard one day just a few weeks after she had died.  Two of my wife's college educated sisters have seen ghosts.  The unreligious sister saw a woman walking through a relatives house when she was visiting.  She followed into the closet where she saw the ghost go, and when she got there, no one was in the closet.  The religious sister reports seeing a devil walking beside one of her brother-in-laws one night.  A few weeks later it was discovered the B-I-L was gay.  She saw this as an omen, but it was interesting that she told no one until after he was caught in a homosexual act.  All three of these relatives are considered to be "normal" sane people.  Other than that, I don't have any suggestions.  I have decided there are simply some things in life we may never understand in our lives, and that is okay.

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

On 7/5/2024 at 1:44 PM, Purplecat said:

I don't know if I've begun to experience any kind of healing process yet. On the one hand I'm no longer 100% sure that Hell exists so that's good, but I also know that if God is real and is vengeful then I'll end up going there, so that's bad. I just hope that if God is real, He'll truly be just and not torture me forever. If He exists and is just cruel and self-absorbed, I hope that there's another powerful being who would someday rescue me from Hell.

If God exists, I don't want to go to Heaven or Hell since Hell is... well... Hell, and Heaven is worshipping a God I don't trust for all of eternity. Neither of those sound good to me.

Welcome Purplecat! We're glad you found us. 

 

Here's what I have found most prominent in your comments so far. My feeling is you have only just begun healing but this part is one of the most important. Christianity uses fear of Hell really effectively, doesn't it? And in your case you also worry about the whole of humanity possibly suffering in Hell. Carrot and stick, emphasis on the Great Big Stick. 

 

I am sorry you have experienced such mental torture. Most of us have that in common here. Come back often and vent a lot. It helps. 

Moxie

[TABA]

Hey @Purplecat, welcome to our community!  Being part of a group like this has been life-changing for so many of us over the years.  Being able to be open about your doubts and questioning of religion is so much better than going through it alone!  
 

I have been a non-believer now for ten years but my wife is still a Christian, although her beliefs have shifted somewhat since I deconverted.   It has gone pretty well for us, so I feel able to give you a little advice in this area.  Of course no two couples are exactly the same…

 

I would stress the importance of only gradually revealing your lack of belief to your nearest and dearest, especially to your wife.  For two reasons: firstly, to reduce the shock of suddenly announcing that you are no longer a Christian (I understand that you have not yet left Christianity, but it seems you are heading toward the exit).  Secondly, because believers generally have very negative impressions of how we non-believers live our lives, of what kind of people we are.  By taking care to be as good a person as you can be, even as your religious beliefs fade away, you can show that you are the man she loves because of who YOU are rather than because of who Jesus is, even as your doubts about religious dogma gradually gradually become apparent.  Although many Christians say that God is first in their lives, for many it is in fact their partner or best friend who is really first.  Being a loving husband and a good man can cover over differences in religious outlook.  Of course, in some cases the religious partner is simply unable to get over the loved one’s deconversion; for some, Christian belief is an absolute must in a spouse.  In that case, divorce might well be the result, and ultimately better for everybody.  
 

But I’m getting ahead of myself a bit here.  Maybe you will exit Christianity completely, or maybe you will settle into a more liberal version of the faith, one that allows you to loosen up in the dogma department while also being tolerated by your wife in particular.  Give yourself time!  Don’t suppress your doubts but understand that it will take time for you to reach a stable new place in your belief system.  Don’t worry about labels, about whether you are still a Christian, a theist, an agnostic, an atheist or whatever.  My friend Weezer has recommended some good books and I will suggest a couple more:  Dale McGowan is the author of “In Faith and in Doubt: How Religious Believers and Nonbelievers Can Create Strong Marriages and Loving Families”. The title speaks for itself.  Regarding fear of Hell, perhaps the most toxic aspects of Christianity, Bart Ehrman’s “Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife” shows how the concepts of Hell and Satan evolved over the course of centuries and are shown to be man-made ideas rather than anything to be feared.  
 

I hope you will become a regular here: I am convinced that being part of a supportive community is a key to going through this process.  It can be scary in the early stages for sure, but countless members have successfully made the journey with the help of this community.  I for one am forever thankful that I found it.  I hope you will be too!

 

Best Regards

- TABA