Ask an Atheist

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

Hello everyone. My daughter and I had a partial discussion about Atheism, as it has come up recently on our forum and I wanted to know more about it. So with the expertise of our knowledgeable members, perhaps you can help me clarify some things. I searched our member data base and out of over 6600 members only 31 identify as Atheist. When filtering for Atheism as an interest, I got 94. I have a feeling there are more than that in our membership. 

 

My limited description of Atheism would be: 

 

1. No belief in any god.

2. A belief that there is no afterlife for a 'soul' or 'consciousness'. 

 

This may help not only me but our guests to understand Atheism better. 

Thanks in advance for your answers. 

[older]

Your search is interesting. In the profile section I don't see where a person would put an identifier. In mine, where it asks, "Still have any Gods...." I just answered, "Nope."

 

But as to your description of an atheist, I would answer;

1. No belief in any god or spirit or supernatural force of any kind.

2. No afterlife. What you see is what you get.

 

I have also written on this forum that I don't use the term "atheist" because it is so often used as a pejorative. During the Cold War various nut cases would scream about "Godless Communism," and atheists would be associated with that, and some were persecuted. (And while the Soviet Union tried to suppress religion, communism and atheism are different things. The Soviet Union was a totalitarian system, not a pure communistic one. But that's a topic for another thread.) 

 

 Also, the "ism" and "ist" in those words could imply some sort of belief system. I've heard atheists being asked, "So what do you believe?" If we take the word apart, a-theist simply means "not theistic." It does not represent a belief system. So if I have to represent my position, I simply say that I don't believe in gods or spirits. Others have written that religions could be compared to TV channels, with various choices, while atheism is turning the TV off.

 

It's also important to know that being an atheist does not mean you are anti-Christian. It is possible to not believe in gods but have no quarrel with those who do. My personal position is that as long as you don't push your beliefs onto me, I have no issue with what you believe. But once you cross that line, then I most certainly have a problem with it. Unfortunately, one of the basic tenets of Christianity is to "spread the word," and I see too many Christians trying, through social pressure or the force of law, to push their religion upon others. So I am opposed to that action. Believe what you want but leave me and others alone. Stand on the street corner and holler. OK. Build a church. OK. (Although when you do you escape property tax on that.) Put a sticker on your car, spend half your waking hours down on your knees, send most of your money to support the private jets of your leaders. Just don't try to put your beliefs off onto me.

 

And I'd say that within those who do not believe in gods, there are any number of value sets. I believe that most people are kind and want to do the right thing. I don't think I need an outside entity to force me to behave. Yes, there are cultural elements to behavior but the fundamentals remain common throughout humanity.

[Mythra]

I escaped religion about 20 years ago.  I am an atheist, and have no problem letting other people know.  I'm not an evangelist for atheism, I simply could care less what other people think.  I posted here a lot about 20 years ago, and this site was pivotal in helping me get out of christianity.  I am anti-christian, because christians aren't satisfied with living their beliefs (although very few of them actually do).   They want EVERYONE to live according to their beliefs.  If you want a book recommendation, I would say The Soul Fallacy, by Julien Musolino would rank high on my list. 

 

I enjoy life free of imaginary friends, whether it is Yahweh Inc. or about a thousand other fantasies.  

[TABA]

21 hours ago, moxieflux66 said:

I searched our member data base and out of over 6600 members only 31 identify as Atheist. When filtering for Atheism as an interest, I got 94. I have a feeling there are more than that in our membership. 

 

11 hours ago, older said:

Your search is interesting. In the profile section I don't see where a person would put an identifier. In mine, where it asks, "Still have any Gods...." I just answered, "Nope."

 

I think anybody who answers with some version of "Nope" to that question counts as an atheist in my book.  I would say the vast majority of members here over the years are functionally atheistic, not believing in or worshipping any deity.  It doesn't mean we're certain.  

 

As for belief in an immortal soul / afterlife, you could be an atheist and still believe in these, just not believing in an actual god.  Many Buddhists would fit in this category.  So I would say no belief in any god = atheism for all practical purposes.

 

I do have mixed feelings about using the a-word.  I'd like to see it become as uncontroversial and socially acceptable here in America as it is in much of the world.  But the word puts many people off, even those seriously questioning their faith.  That's why I would be at pains to stress - to new members especially - that being ex-Christian does not require being atheist.  

[◊ Weezer ◊]

16 hours ago, TABA said:

 

But the word puts many people off, even those seriously questioning their faith.  That's why I would be at pains to stress - to new members especially - that being ex-Christian does not require being atheist.  

 

I agree.  I have been surprised at how strongly some react to the term.

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

On 6/13/2024 at 6:35 PM, older said:

Your search is interesting. In the profile section I don't see where a person would put an identifier. In mine, where it asks, "Still have any Gods...." I just answered, "Nope."

I did a general member search and then used "Atheism" in the "interests" field and got the 94 members. I did that because I have seen members who don't have an official Atheist designation but still list that in their profile. 

 

I couldn't figure out how those official designations are determined. I assume it has something to do with when you sign up but I can't recall. 

 

On 6/13/2024 at 6:35 PM, older said:

Others have written that religions could be compared to TV channels, with various choices, while atheism is turning the TV off.

 

Well said. Thank you for that. 

 

On 6/13/2024 at 6:35 PM, older said:

And I'd say that within those who do not believe in gods, there are any number of value sets. I believe that most people are kind and want to do the right thing. I don't think I need an outside entity to force me to behave. Yes, there are cultural elements to behavior but the fundamentals remain common throughout humanity.

I'd call it a conscience. And unfortunately, I'm not sure anymore that everyone is born with one. 

 

16 hours ago, TABA said:

 

 

I think anybody who answers with some version of "Nope" to that question counts as an atheist in my book.  I would say the vast majority of members here over the years are functionally atheistic, not believing in or worshipping any deity.  It doesn't mean we're certain.  

 

As for belief in an immortal soul / afterlife, you could be an atheist and still believe in these, just not believing in an actual god.  Many Buddhists would fit in this category.  So I would say no belief in any god = atheism for all practical purposes.

 

I do have mixed feelings about using the a-word.  I'd like to see it become as uncontroversial and socially acceptable here in America as it is in much of the world.  But the word puts many people off, even those seriously questioning their faith.  That's why I would be at pains to stress - to new members especially - that being ex-Christian does not require being atheist.  

Thank you for ALL this insight TABA 

I would still like to hear from more of you, particularly regarding the afterlife (or your lack of belief in it). 

Thanks! 

[mwc]

     I'm atheist but I don't think it's in my profile anywhere.  I don't see the point I guess.  If people want to know I'll tell them but otherwise there's no real reason to discuss it.  It only comes up here because of the type of forum it is.

 

     I also kind of stick to a rather limited definition of atheist which is just not having a belief in a god or gods (essentially: a=without / theos=a god).  Now, since I deny all gods I suppose it only stands to reason that I deny any beliefs that come along with those gods which would include their specific magical abilities or afterlifes for example.  However, if there's some other form of afterlife that isn't dependent on any of these gods then I suppose I could believe in that if I chose to but I feel that if such an afterlife did exist my gaining access shouldn't depend on whether or not I believe in it.  I don't see belief as a magical force that somehow qualifies people for access to better things in some great beyond.  Anyhow, I've wondered off-topic.  I just see being an atheist as not having any god.

 

          mwc

 

[midniterider]

OP, what are your thoughts on someone being neither theist nor atheist? 

[♦ Fuego ♦]

On 6/13/2024 at 8:47 AM, moxieflux66 said:

My limited description of Atheism would be: 

 

1. No belief in any god.

2. A belief that there is no afterlife for a 'soul' or 'consciousness'. 

 

I'm in the first category, at least in the anthropomorphic gods so common in human religions. My experimentation with substances that affect/cause "trips" causes me to simultaneously think the brain can manufacture "spiritual" experiences while leaving open the idea that there is WAY more going on than we have evolved to recognize.

 

Another way to say it is how do you describe a blue sky to a group of blind people? To them it does not exist experientially, and your descriptions could be scientific, emotional, comparative, and yet they will never experience it as you do. I currently tend towards the idea that if there is an afterlife, I am like a raindrop falling into an ocean, evaporating, drifting and carried by heat and wind, forming again and dropping again. In a way it is meaningless and cyclical. But it is more likely that my mind is the product of biochemical reactions and training, and works just well enough for me to get around in this environment and perhaps breed and make more with blended genetics, and then die and be recycled back into nature (more likely burnt to ashes and then pointlessly plopped in a hole somewhere to satisfy a human legal code). 

 

Humans look for patterns and will see faces in the moon and clouds because we are wired that way. See a face in a bush that may be a predator. See face of mommy who may help me. We develop imaginary friends and lovers when we lack real ones, or to supplement real ones. We believe in rituals that we link to "luck", and draw illogical conclusions based on poor reasoning. We can imagine a being a great love and mercy, or combine such a being with a human thirst for blood and warfare and see no conflict in that because we're benefiting from the nod of our god. We imagine that the god we made is volatile and needs to be kept happy so he/she/it doesn't hurt us or leave us to the ravages of nature, and see sickness and tornadoes as punishment for ___ and need a shaman/priest with a funny hat to interpret the whims of the gods for us mere mortals. And on it goes into modern day and people highly motivated to kill for their almighty gods. History shows us how actual knowledge gets sidelined and lost when barbarians gather in sufficient numbers to ruin the dominant cultures. Then nature may bring a reset that ruins everything for all but a few who survive and start a new tribe. It seems meaningless and cyclical. Perhaps life is a result of entropy helping to more quickly dissipate energy. 

[pantheory]

Unfortunately atheism is a belief. One cannot prove something does not exist if in reality there is no such thing, like an invisible pink unicorn. So one simply can say I don't believe in invisible pink unicorns since there is no credible evidence for their existence. The same thing is true for God or gods IMO. Not only is there no credible evidence for his existence, parts of the book that claim his existence, the Bible, can easily be proven wrong by science.

 

So for me, I claim that I am an atheist, which simply means that I do not believe in the existence of God. I think the idea of believing in God could be likened to the belief in Santa, the Easter Bunny, or anything else that does not make sense like any childish fairy tale.

[pantheory]

On 6/15/2024 at 7:17 AM, midniterider said:

OP, what are your thoughts on someone being neither theist nor atheist? 

 

Someone who is neither a theist or atheist is often or usually categorized as an agnostic, which simply means that they still don't know, or haven't decided what they believe concerning the existence of an invisible, spiritual higher power of some kind, signified by "maybe there is."

[midniterider]

21 hours ago, pantheory said:

 

Someone who is neither a theist or atheist is often or usually categorized as an agnostic, which simply means that they still don't know, or haven't decided what they believe concerning the existence of a invisible, spiritual higher power of some kind, signified by "maybe there is."

 

Thank you, Pan. That's refreshing.

 

I'm in another forum discussing agnosticism where a good portion of its denizens are very black and white...you either believe in God or you don't. No 'maybe' is allowed. And they will give you an earful about why it's illogical to think otherwise.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

As I've said before, I consider myself an apatheist, because I really don't care whether a god exists or not.  Specifically, I am a gnostic apatheist, in that I know I don't care; but now we're splitting hairs, I suppose.  Realistically, I have about a 15-minute commute to work in the mornings, I buy groceries from a local Asian market on Saturday mornings, I bike about 5 miles every day, and my goal is to be as constructive a force in the lives of others as I can be.  If I had indisputable, undeniable evidence that a god existed, I would have about a 15-minute commute to work in the mornings, I would buy groceries from a local Asian market on Saturday mornings, I would bike about 5 miles every day, and my goal would continue to be as constructive a force in the lives of others as I can be.  In essence, I don't really see how having a definitive answer to that particular question would really have any kind of meaningful impact on my life.  

[pantheory]

On 6/17/2024 at 10:43 AM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

As I've said before, I consider myself an apatheist, because I really don't care whether a god exists or not.  Specifically, I am a gnostic apatheist, in that I know I don't care; but now we're splitting hairs, I suppose.  Realistically, I have about a 15-minute commute to work in the mornings, I buy groceries from a local Asian market on Saturday mornings, I bike about 5 miles every day, and my goal is to be as constructive a force in the lives of others as I can be.  If I had indisputable, undeniable evidence that a god existed, I would have about a 15-minute commute to work in the mornings, I would buy groceries from a local Asian market on Saturday mornings, I would bike about 5 miles every day, and my goal would continue to be as constructive a force in the lives of others as I can be.  In essence, I don't really see how having a definitive answer to that particular question would really have any kind of meaningful impact on my life.  

 

The atheists and agnostics that I have known, grew up as Christians and generally follow a similar moral code of sympathy and empathy now as they did as Christians, and for some even more so. Before and after being an atheist, I have always been sympathetic and empathetic toward animals also. I believe that I am no more than an animal and will have the same fate of zero upon death, the same as every other animal IMO.

 

Humans are a kind of pack animal, like dogs, dolphins, elephants, etc. that often care for others of their kind. Separate from religion, some of the moral doctrines taught by religion come naturally to many humans IMO, separate from their religious or non-religious beliefs.

[Dsred19]

I think when I made my profile I put “not sure”. But I guess I should change that as I am slowly realizing I am an atheist.

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

On 6/15/2024 at 9:36 AM, Fuego said:

 

I'm in the first category, at least in the anthropomorphic gods so common in human religions. My experimentation with substances that affect/cause "trips" causes me to simultaneously think the brain can manufacture "spiritual" experiences while leaving open the idea that there is WAY more going on than we have evolved to recognize.

 

Another way to say it is how do you describe a blue sky to a group of blind people? To them it does not exist experientially, and your descriptions could be scientific, emotional, comparative, and yet they will never experience it as you do. I currently tend towards the idea that if there is an afterlife, I am like a raindrop falling into an ocean, evaporating, drifting and carried by heat and wind, forming again and dropping again. In a way it is meaningless and cyclical. But it is more likely that my mind is the product of biochemical reactions and training, and works just well enough for me to get around in this environment and perhaps breed and make more with blended genetics, and then die and be recycled back into nature (more likely burnt to ashes and then pointlessly plopped in a hole somewhere to satisfy a human legal code). 

 

Humans look for patterns and will see faces in the moon and clouds because we are wired that way. See a face in a bush that may be a predator. See face of mommy who may help me. We develop imaginary friends and lovers when we lack real ones, or to supplement real ones. We believe in rituals that we link to "luck", and draw illogical conclusions based on poor reasoning. We can imagine a being a great love and mercy, or combine such a being with a human thirst for blood and warfare and see no conflict in that because we're benefiting from the nod of our god. We imagine that the god we made is volatile and needs to be kept happy so he/she/it doesn't hurt us or leave us to the ravages of nature, and see sickness and tornadoes as punishment for ___ and need a shaman/priest with a funny hat to interpret the whims of the gods for us mere mortals. And on it goes into modern day and people highly motivated to kill for their almighty gods. History shows us how actual knowledge gets sidelined and lost when barbarians gather in sufficient numbers to ruin the dominant cultures. Then nature may bring a reset that ruins everything for all but a few who survive and start a new tribe. It seems meaningless and cyclical. Perhaps life is a result of entropy helping to more quickly dissipate energy. 

I always love hearing your take, like watching a movie. Thank you Fuego 

[Wertbag]

It can matter in the situation and audience.  If family and friends ask I would openly say atheist, but if I'm talking to someone online, a debate or just a discussion I would often avoid the term atheist solely because so many Christians have been taught a negative view.  It can kill conversations; it can apply numerous labels to you, and it can be a roadblock to having them consider your points.  Online I'd say ex-Christian, non-believer or more often just avoid the conversation getting personal.