Ghosts-what Do You Believe?

[Amethyst]

*Gasp*

 

It's alive! The thread is aliiiiiive!

 

*Runs*

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Amethyst]

So yea, to reiterate my point....I don't think that people are stupid for perceiving what they think is supernatural, I think people are stupid for conceptualizing their perception as supernatural...

 

ghosts? Honestly....what are we, ten years old?

 

Actually, I agree with you. Logically, there can't be anything supernatural. It's either natural or it doesn't exist.

[Asimov]

So yea, to reiterate my point....I don't think that people are stupid for perceiving what they think is supernatural, I think people are stupid for conceptualizing their perception as supernatural...

 

ghosts? Honestly....what are we, ten years old?

 

Actually, I agree with you. Logically, there can't be anything supernatural. It's either natural or it doesn't exist.

 

Kinda...there ARE definitions for natural, ya know?

[LadyFeline]

But does that really justify the personal attack? Wow, such nice non-judgmental friendly people on this site.............makes me feel like I'm back in church.................

Hey, you reap what you sow, son. When you treat people like idiots for not kowtowing to your personal beliefs (*cough*fundy*cough*), don't expect to be treated like a king.

[trashy]

I would just like to thank Asimov for taking my place in this thread! LOL

[LosingMyReligion]

Even though I don't believe in Christianity I do believe in God and the afterlife.

 

With that said I do believe in ghosts. Some people will think I'm nuts, but because of personal experiences(which I will not elaborate upon)I'm not a skeptic of life after death.

 

I think ghosts are people who probably died tragically, unjustly, or had unfinished affairs, prior to their untimely demises. So, for whatever reason, they cannot pass into the Afterlife until everything is complete.

 

That is why I believe in the power of mediums(albeit, i don't trust approximately 90% of them). I think they are blessed with the task of aiding all of the lost souls out there.

[Vigile]

I think for most people, a very strong experience will trump almost anything else for them.

 

 

Isn't it worthwhile then to ask the question "Can mine or anyone elses experiences truly be trusted?"

 

Also, "Isn't it possible to misinterpret personal experiences?"

 

Just putting it out there since this is the crux of the broader debate for those who spend time on this issue.

 

Those of us who were xtians surely had lots of "experiences" that kept us in the fold over the years didn't we? I know I did.

[Rachelness]

Okay. From now on, I'm not going to believe in giant squid. I don't care what you tell me, or what photographs you show me, or anything. They're all probably just hoaxes, or have been tampered with... Giant squid just aren't real. I've never seen one, or touched one, or eaten one, so there's no way they can be real, and if you try to tell me that they are, you're a LIAR!

 

I'm also not going to believe in appendixes. I've never seen one of those, either. Or had to have an "appendectomy" to remove one. So obviously they don't exist, and all the doctors who say they do are quacks. Don't try to tell me that appendixes exist, or you're a LIAR!

 

Oh, yeah - and corbon monoxide is a hoax, too! It's just something made up by people to get you to buy incredibly expensive and useless ceiling decorations. Come on - something you can't see, smell, touch, hear, or taste?? There's no way! It doesn't exist unless it stimulates at least one of your senses! All those reports about "carbon monoxide poisoning"? Those are all just faked. Don't try to tell me otherwise, or you're a LIAR!

 

You'd make a good Christian apologist.

[LadyFeline]

You'd make a good Christian apologist.

Why? Because I won't bow to dogmatism and just say "Hey, you're right. I'll just start thinking just like you and believing the exact same way you do."

 

No thanks. I already turned down one belief system that required me to do that. I'd rather not fall into that little trap again. If you're comfortable with the fundie mindset of "Yes or no, black or white" and find that it works for you, hey, it's all good. But I don't like to be stuck with absolutes, myself.

[Guest Reesa]

Ive encounted many ghosts/spirits whatever ya wanna call em, which makes me believe in a spiritual realm out there! I am definatley a person who has to see to believe, and i have seen.. far too many for my liking.. and no.. i was not high, drunk or in an unatural state when it occured.. lol

[Guest ShannonXero]

I've had weird things happen that I can't explain, and it's stupid to attribute them to something paranormal just because you can't explain it.

 

I read in a magazine about a ghost story where these people would be walking down these stairs in an apartment building and would hear footsteps following them. If they stood still the footsteps would keep walking up and down the stairs. Nobody could explain it and everyone was scared that there were ghosts. It wasn't until someone noticed that the adjacent building had stairs right beside theirs and the sound was the people in the other building walking up and down.

 

It's all about fear and the inability to explain it away that causes people to believe in ghosts.

 

I totally agree. We don't have all the answers yet. It's ignorant to think we do, and only by the scientific method of research will we find out. Just keep digging.

 

I'm starting to major in psychology.

I have had my own spooky encounters.

You have to remember the brain is an amazingly powerful organ.

Could these experinces have been brought on by a sheer chemical release?

Or a deep seeded unconsious emotion?

After all, xians say they can see & hear god... that's classified as delusional schizophrenia.

Illegal drugs that alter the brains functions, allow the user to hallucinate.

Why not the drugs your brain can produce?

 

I'm just saying research it further before coming to a conclusion.

I would love for ghosts to be real. I am the most fairy-tale loving person in the world, (a romantic goth, if you will), but I have a strong grasp of reality too... so much it sucks sometimes.

I would love for ghosts to be real, wouldn't it prove Einstiens theory of what happens to us when we die? That we are electricity and we dispurse as such?

 

I am not sure on that though, I heard it somewhere before.

[Ouroboros]

Okay, weird things happens sometimes.

 

Just the other day, I was home, working, and alone. I was expecting someone and suddenly I heard knocking on the front door. We do have a doorbell, why whoever didn't use it was a mystery. But even a larger mystery was that there were no one outside the door.

 

I went back to my office, and 10-15 minutes later, again I heard the knocking. Went to the door, and no one there.

 

And it happened a third time.

 

Honestly, I don't know what did it, but I suspect the current heat wave we have maybe caused the house to move or something. Another explanation maybe was that someone was playing a prank. I checked the last time, walked around on the street, but no one in sight. It does take a little while to get down the stairs to the door, so if it was a prank, they had enough time to hide.

[Vigile]

We used to do that when we were kids. The name of the game has bad racial connotations so I won't repeat it here.

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

The name of the game has bad racial connotations so I won't repeat it here.

 

Micronesian Mischief Knocking?

[Vigile]

The name of the game has bad racial connotations so I won't repeat it here.

 

Micronesian Mischief Knocking?

 

 

*Shhh...*

[All Gods Fail]

We used to call it "Ding-Dong Ditch-It." It was our favorite summer pastime.

 

We also used to go around at night and scare people by scratching or tapping on their windows, or trying to sound like ghosts.

 

Little shits, we used to be...

[Guest Mr. XC]

You have to remember the brain is an amazingly powerful organ.

Could these experinces have been brought on by a sheer chemical release?

Or a deep seeded unconsious emotion?

It would be great if we could train our brains to release Ketamine on demand. That would be fun!

 

I'm just saying research it further before coming to a conclusion.

For a very short time, ghost hunting was a hobby of mine. The instrument that was able to pick up neat activity reliably was a lightning detector. I would place StrikeAlert on a dry surface somewhere in the middle of a grave yard or known spooky place. In one grave yard, it went off on average of once a minute on a clear night. A person who mowed the grass of the grave yard as a child verified that there were no power lines near the yard. It was a grave yard of an old church in the middle of nowhere. The power lines going to the church were visible and far way from the grave yard. In other grave yards, it did not go off at all. It is important to make sure there you do not place it within 200 feet of power lines, depending on the amount of power they carry. My StrikeAlert could pick up me turning the oven (a very power demanding appliance) on and off if placed on the floor about 20 feet away from the oven. A low frequency RF detector confirmed that the spot on the floor had electrical wiring near it (because it picked up 60 Hz), so moving the StrikeAlert away from that spot made it stop responding to the oven.

[duderonomy]

Hi.

 

I have to admit first that I only read the OP, so I don't know where this thread has gone since then.

Anyway, here's my take on 'Gnosis-what Do You Believe?'

 

I believe that Gnosis means knowledge'. Now I have to ask, do you mean do I believe in Gnosis, or do you mean do I believe in something else if I don't?

 

What??

Ghosts?

 

 

nevermind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

bitch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The name of the game has bad racial connotations so I won't repeat it here.

 

Micronesian Mischief Knocking?

 

 

"Drop The Broom"?

[All Gods Fail]

For a very short time, ghost hunting was a hobby of mine. The instrument that was able to pick up neat activity reliably was a lightning detector. I would place StrikeAlert on a dry surface somewhere in the middle of a grave yard or known spooky place. In one grave yard, it went off on average of once a minute on a clear night. A person who mowed the grass of the grave yard as a child verified that there were no power lines near the yard. It was a grave yard of an old church in the middle of nowhere.

 

How does that prove ghosts? Not trying to be a jerk, but where has it been proven that ghosts cause electricity?

 

The StrikeAlert promises to detect lightning from 40 miles away - could there have been electrical energy within a 40 mile radius of the graveyard? Like some far-off heat lightning?

 

It's like the Ghost Hunters on the SciFi channel going apeshit over EMF readings. Why is that proof of a ghost? Wouldn't it be proof of an electro-magnetic fluctuation?

[Guest Mr. XC]

For a very short time, ghost hunting was a hobby of mine. The instrument that was able to pick up neat activity reliably was a lightning detector. I would place StrikeAlert on a dry surface somewhere in the middle of a grave yard or known spooky place. In one grave yard, it went off on average of once a minute on a clear night. A person who mowed the grass of the grave yard as a child verified that there were no power lines near the yard. It was a grave yard of an old church in the middle of nowhere.

 

How does that prove ghosts? Not trying to be a jerk, but where has it been proven that ghosts cause electricity?

 

The StrikeAlert promises to detect lightning from 40 miles away - could there have been electrical energy within a 40 mile radius of the graveyard? Like some far-off heat lightning?

lol. Notice that I did not say that it detected ghosts. This is a hobby and not science. I just said that it had a tendency to detect what the detector thought was lightning (which could be anything, which is why I included the oven example) in a known spooky place. The known spooky place (which was very remote) had no sources of man made electrical interference and I confirmed this with high frequency and low frequency EMF meters. They did not ignore 60 Hz like some meters do. Also, you would think that a grave yard closer to a city would exhibit more false readings due to man made interference, but that was not the case. I had less or no false readings in most outdoor settings (areas clear of electrical wiring that is). No chance of heat lightning. It was probably 50-60 F when I took those readings.

It's like the Ghost Hunters on the SciFi channel going apeshit over EMF readings. Why is that proof of a ghost? Wouldn't it be proof of an electro-magnetic fluctuation?

Who knows. Ghost hunting every now and then is better than spending all of ones time in front of a computer. I view it is a hobby and not science. If I wanted to be scientific about it, I would put more controls in place, log everything better, and use a thermal camera. But thermal cameras are like $18,000 for a cheap one, so that is a bit out of my range.

[Taphophilia]

My question would be: Why look for ghosts in a graveyard? If there is such a thing as a ghost, I would suspect they would be some place where they had been alive.

 

Taph

[Guest Mr. XC]

My question would be: Why look for ghosts in a graveyard? If there is such a thing as a ghost, I would suspect they would be some place where they had been alive.

Who knows. I looked at that particular location (in a remote spot in South Carolina) because several witnesses that I knew claimed to have seen / experienced strange stuff there.

[All Gods Fail]

Ghost hunting every now and then is better than spending all of ones time in front of a computer. I view it is a hobby and not science. If I wanted to be scientific about it, I would put more controls in place, log everything better, and use a thermal camera. But thermal cameras are like $18,000 for a cheap one, so that is a bit out of my range.

 

Which begs the question, where was it proven you can photograph ghosts on a thermal camera?

 

 

Can you tell I'm a sceptic? Sorry, Mr. XC, not trying to pick on you or anything - ghost hunting sounds like a fun hobby. And you don't come across as one these woo-woo believer types, to whom everything is proof of the supernatural.

 

It just drives me nuts when 'professional' ghost busters go on about EMF fields and such like it's some universally accepted fact that spooks give off EMF readings. I mean, ghosts themselves need to be proven to exist before you can start making declarative statements about how to detect them.

 

huf, huf...rant over.

 

So anyway, ever seen a ghost?

[Taphophilia]

My question would be: Why look for ghosts in a graveyard? If there is such a thing as a ghost, I would suspect they would be some place where they had been alive.

Who knows. I looked at that particular location (in a remote spot in South Carolina) because several witnesses that I knew claimed to have seen / experienced strange stuff there.

 

Well, that's a reason. I would love to go ghost hunting. I'm just jealous.

[Guest Mr. XC]

Which begs the question, where was it proven you can photograph ghosts on a thermal camera?

It is not. Thermal cameras are cool, even outside the use of ghost hunting. Anyway, with the theory that the presence of ghosts lowering the temperature in a room or area, that should be visible on a thermal camera.

 

I suppose if I really wanted to use one, I could rent one, or recruit someone who has access to one. Thermal cameras are sometimes used during electrical inspection to find overheating wires (due to bad connections or bad load distribution) and finding spots in buildings where moisture is coming in.

 

Can you tell I'm a sceptic? Sorry, Mr. XC, not trying to pick on you or anything - ghost hunting sounds like a fun hobby. And you don't come across as one these woo-woo believer types, to whom everything is proof of the supernatural.

It is healthy to be a skeptic. Being one helps balance out those woo-woo believer types. I really do not want to see another dark age. I am fairly open minded to theories that sound reasonable, including the possibility that those theories are wrong. Of course, what is reasonable to me is will vary with someone else. I take into account stuff like how our science is still incomplete at the subatomic level, which means stuff like ghosts and a non-dualistic God is still possible. But just because I think they are possible does not mean that they exist.

 

It just drives me nuts when 'professional' ghost busters go on about EMF fields and such like it's some universally accepted fact that spooks give off EMF readings. I mean, ghosts themselves need to be proven to exist before you can start making declarative statements about how to detect them.

 

huf, huf...rant over.

 

So anyway, ever seen a ghost?

I had readers from AAronia AG which could detect high and low frequencies, and for low frequency, I could detect electromagnetic in addition to electrical signals. The human body does give off (or re-radiate from other sources?) a very low amount of electromagnetic activity which the meters could just barely detect at almost point blank range (I think 3" inches). Although, you have to move to a spot far away from 60 Hz wiring, otherwise, the electromagnetic activity from the wiring will be much stronger. Anyway, I never detected ghost like activity with EMF. It was too difficult to tell from background activity stuff. I did find that some places gave off more electromagnetic activity from the ground (the meters are directional), which was odd. I am sure there is a good explication for that, but I never found one.

 

I have never seen a ghost with my eyes, which is why I remain skeptical. Some of the folks in my group claimed to have, when they disturbed a known hunted building by skate boarding in it. I was not around then. I did hear a loud disturbance in the building that "moved" across a very large area (think storage warehouse the size of a football field) in about 5 seconds. The building had a metal roof, so you could blame it on that, but it seemed like a stretch because known thermal activity typically only caused pops here and there.