Christians Why Should I Return To God

[chrisstavrous]

 

 

 

 

 

Regarding 6 ...

Why do you personally think this was not possible?

 

Regarding 7 ...

I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony?

It's not I didn't think it was impossible I had no interest in the reward of eternal life, I just wanted to have a full life like jesus promised. As for my testimony I don't have anything in-depth about my mental illness.

Jesus' promises were not the promises of this world. What did you understand a full life to be?

 

Did your illness come on after you became a Christian?

A full life I believe would have been a life where jesus filled my emptyness to overflowing, this also was something jesus promised. As for my schizophrenia, that came after.

I don't know that our cups runneth over as I view the thing as a process.

Well it is supposed to.

 

John 4:14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

[chrisstavrous]

 

 

 

 

I wanted to give you answers that my own pastors and peers had tried to placate me with as well, and obviously, I saw right through them:

 

Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing.

 

1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself - Reason: Man is living in the Fall. God does not promise ease of suffering on earth.

 

Rebuttal

 

God does promise to ease suffering if he promises to heal us.

 

2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good : Reason: God's rationale is not for us to understand because we cannot comprehend Him.

 

Rebuttal

 

How can you follow anything you can't comprehend, that's like trying to fly a plane without knowing how it works.

 

3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels:

Reason: The big question is, must we accept the view that the Bible and science can't both be true? Then they would start showing me all the christian scientists in the world.4.

 

Rebuttal

 

We must accept that their are real conflicts between the bibles information and the information we have now about natural science. Such as the story in the bible of the sun standing still in the sky for almost a full day.

 

4. There's no original biblical source's that I can rely on: Reason - It doesn't matter because our faith teaches us He is real.

 

Rebuttal

 

It does matter if our faith is dependent on accepting the bible as the evidence of god, faith and truth.

 

5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus? Answer I was given said to be baptized, accept him as savior, and follow his teachings in the NT. Pretty vague huh?

 

Rebuttal

 

Yes very vague

 

6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach. Reason - You did not completely submit to god. God just wants submission.

 

Rebuttal

 

In other words a slave

 

John 15:15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

 

Any friend that would have me as a servant, slave or worse is no friend of mine.

 

7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia - See answer one about the Fall.

 

Rebuttal

 

Its not having the illness I am upset about, it's the fact god has never explained to me or helped me understand how to cope and deal with it through my faith.

 

8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus - Reason: No one can be even close to Jesus because he was born sinless. We sin every day.

 

Rebuttal

 

That's what I am saying, no one comes close, close meaning even like him.

 

 

9. Faith is subjective - Reason: Because it is tailor made for you, the individual. Every relationship with god is different for everyone.

 

Rebuttal

 

Then there must be 2.4 billion jesus, I thought jesus was only one way, one truth and one god. Well that's what most christians say before they assure you that their brand of truth is the right one.

Read post inclosed.

You don't need to rebutt me Chrisst, I completely agree it's a bunch of shite. The same rebuttals you offer is what I had as well.

I wrote that's for our christian guests.

[midniterider]

 

No reason to go back unless they prove the Bible is inspired by God which would also mean historically accurate...why would a man inspired by God get his history all wrong? Its ridiculous...the Bible falls apart when you examine it critically as opposed to with a devotional persepctive...there is no going back because the absurdities and errors cannot be

erased...

 

Even jesus thought the world was flat.

 

Even if the whole thing was proven to be right historically, it still doesn't 'prove' that god spoke through these 'authors'. God has NO voice.

 

 

God never speaks and never appears. I'm glad I don't waste my time speaking on behalf of a non-existent god anymore.

[chrisstavrous]

Chris, I can relate completely to the pain and misery caused by the christian religion. Although I have never been diagnosed with any particular mental ailment, I do know and can clearly recall a period in my christian life when I was losing my mind. It was a horrendously dark period in my life because I was completely aware that I was going insane; I had conscious perception of my brain literally being fractured and broken. I was sad because my mind has always been my greatest friend and ally. The thought of losing it was deeply discomforting to me. Fortunately, my mind was strong enough to recover; but it could have just as easily gone the other way. It was an extremely close near-miss. This episode has made me intensely sensitive to others whose minds have been broken by the christian religion. It's a good sign that you can see OrdinaryClay for what he is and that you can respond to his attacks in an objective manner.

It's so strange, when I was a christian I had a hard time dealing with other christian, after many confrontations with them I had moments of pure rage ending up with the destruction of my property. But since I left christianity behind I don't react like that anymore and talking to christians is so much more easy. As for having mental illness and going insane in christianity at the same time, it's was not very nice. At least I only have my mental illness to deal with now.

[chrisstavrous]

 

 

Yes, OC, you are indeed a predator. I saw the way you preyed on Chris, and I was appalled by the rudeness and intrusiveness of your questions. If this were My forum, I'd have kicked you out months ago.

 

And I just have this to say about your assertion that "I have heard many, many, many testimonies of people whose lives improved with Christianity - including mine."

 

It did not improve our lives.

 

If you can't respect that much, go away and don't ever come back here.

Religions and beliefs in gods are really no different than medicine, which is something that OC doesn't quite realize. One type of medicine does not cure and help everyone. For some, it works great, but for others, they either experience nasty side effects or nothing happens. It's like he's trying to sell a medicine by saying that he has heard of many people that it's helped, therefore, everyone needs it and must use it.

 

Then, he's pointing his finger at everyone who has experienced bad side effects because of this one medicine and saying, "It is only here where I read about people who took the medicine and it didn't help or caused suffering".

 

It's almost as if he's accusing us of something. We must not have read all of the warning labels, followed all the directions when taking the medicine, or maybe we didn't use the correct dosage. Obviously, because the medicine helps a lot of people, it must be the best there is and no one can possibly experience bad side effects, unless they did something wrong while taking the medication. If anyone tried to sell a medication like that, no one would trust them or take the medicine.

 

When it comes to religion, it works just like any medicine for people who either need it or don't need it, but for some reason, religions are not treated the same, even when they should be.

I didn't understand that the first time I read your post, but after reading again I get it.

 

What you said is pretty deep, and to think those kind of free thinking thoughts that reach me where no bible verse ever did must be silenced and suppressed in the name of god is........

[chrisstavrous]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing.

 

1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself

 

2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good

 

3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels

 

4. There's no original biblical sorce that I can rely on

 

5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus?

 

6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach.

 

7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia

 

8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus

 

9. Faith is subjective

Regarding 6 ...

Why do you personally think this was not possible?

 

Regarding 7 ...

I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony?

Here we see an man putting forth in a clear and articulate manner the honest questions he has concerning the faith he once practiced. We also see the "christian" response in OrdinaryClay immediately attacking what he views as the honest man's weaknesses. Christians prey on weakness because they know their "arguments" cannont stand up to the strength of honesty, let alone logical scrutiny. Let OrdinaryClay forever be remembered as a man who preyed upon the weaknesses of others instead of engaging in honest debate.

"You will know them [True Christians] by their fruit"

 

The very words of Jesus; who mixed with sinners without condemning them, served the poor and needy, tended the sick and who had mercy and compassion on the weak - while the scripture-obsessed Pharisees sat in self-righteous judgement and had only scorn for those weaker than themselves.

 

Your last sentence cuts thru the crap and exposes the truth Prof.

 

BAA

That was my intention, BAA. Left unchecked, I think Clay would have teased at Chris' "weaknesses" until he had the man maneuvered into a position where Clay could easily claim that the state of Chris' mental health was the reason for his doubts and disbeliefs. Such a manipulator. He even feigned compassion to gain trust, the sick bastard.

Actually I did have a christian friend who said that to me when my doubts plagued me day and night. He could not admit that christianity was my problem. (Alot of pain and missery back with those people )

Please stay away from the tarot.

I don't care about the tarot anymore, after I revisited the tarot on this forum I realized that it was an old interest I don't care about anymore. Can we get back to my main question about having a good reason to return to god.

[duderonomy]

 

 

 

Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing.

 

1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself

 

2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good

 

3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels

 

4. There's no original biblical sorce that I can rely on

 

5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus?

 

6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach.

 

7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia

 

8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus

 

9. Faith is subjective

Regarding 6 ...

Why do you personally think this was not possible?

 

Regarding 7 ...

I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony?

 

 

"Regarding 6?"  O.C. Start with reason #1.

You were a Christian, right? Tell me what prayer response did Christ receive in the Garden of Gethsemane?

 

You have the Spirit of God, why pick and choose?

 

 

What does the indwelling of the Holy Spirit have to do with which question I ask. I'll tell you. None.

 

If I provided links to the answers would you read them?

 

 

OC, the baiting and manipulating you were doing to Chris was obvious to me too. I imagine it was obvious to him as well. He has been quite brilliant in his responses to you just by being honest and open, and he wasn't even debating you.

 

You asked him some eight or nine questions in the first few posts but gave no answers. I asked why you chose his question #6, and not # 1. I saw what you were doing. You responded to me with more ridiculous rabbit hole questions. 

 

I know we haven't had much dialogue on this website, but I always thought of you as some kind of artful dodger. A lot of floating like a butterfly, but no stinging like a bee.  Now, someone said you are a predator, and I agree. There is something wrong with you, OC, and you need to repent. That means a change of mind that causes a change in direction but you knew that.

 

You know the verse where (I think it was Paul) said that because of you the name of Christ is blasphemed in the world?  I think he was talking about you and Christians like you OC.

 

Oh, and the garden of Gethsemane? What response would Jesus have expected from his prayer? He knew why he was sent. He knew he was going to die. He knew that he could call ten thousand angels if he wanted to. He knew that in three days he would be alive again. Read the story as it is, OC, without your biased Christian goggles on. Look at the big picture.

He was talking to himself in the garden, and he wasn't (and this is key) praying for healing; he was praying for deliverance from himself.

You should do the same, and if that doesn't work, I'm willing to bet that most folks here would understand and try to help you.

 

 

 

 

.   

[chrisstavrous]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing.

 

1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself

 

2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good

 

3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels

 

4. There's no original biblical sorce that I can rely on

 

5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus?

 

6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach.

 

7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia

 

8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus

 

9. Faith is subjective

Regarding 6 ...

Why do you personally think this was not possible?

 

Regarding 7 ...

I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony?

"Regarding 6?" O.C. Start with reason #1.

You were a Christian, right? Tell me what prayer response did Christ receive in the Garden of Gethsemane?

You have the Spirit of God, why pick and choose?

 

 

What does the indwelling of the Holy Spirit have to do with which question I ask. I'll tell you. None.

 

If I provided links to the answers would you read them?

OC, the baiting and manipulating you were doing to Chris was obvious to me too. I imagine it was obvious to him as well. He has been quite brilliant in his responses to you just by being honest and open, and he wasn't even debating you.

 

You asked him some eight or nine questions in the first few posts but gave no answers. I asked why you chose his question #6, and not # 1. I saw what you were doing. You responded to me with more ridiculous rabbit hole questions.

 

I know we haven't had much dialogue on this website, but I always thought of you as some kind of artful dodger. A lot of floating like a butterfly, but no stinging like a bee. Now, someone said you are a predator, and I agree. There is something wrong with you, OC, and you need to repent. That means a change of mind that causes a change in direction but you knew that.

 

You know the verse where (I think it was Paul) said that because of you the name of Christ is blasphemed in the world? I think he was talking about you and Christians like you OC.

 

Oh, and the garden of Gethsemane? What response would Jesus have expected from his prayer? He knew why he was sent. He knew he was going to die. He knew that he could call ten thousand angels if he wanted to. He knew that in three days he would be alive again. Read the story as it is, OC, without your biased Christian goggles on. Look at the big picture.

He was talking to himself in the garden, and he wasn't (and this is key) praying for healing; he was praying for deliverance from himself.

You should do the same, and if that doesn't work, I'm willing to bet that most folks here would understand and try to help you.

 

 

 

 

.

In OrdinaryClays mind and many christians like him/her they are always communicating to us and the world through a lens that they think is pefect. Trying to tell someone that their lens is out of alignment when they think it's in perfect alignment solves nothing, untill they pull apart the device that holds the lens and see for themself if in fact the lens is faulty there's nothing anyone can do.

[chrisstavrous]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing.

 

1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself

 

2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good

 

3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels

 

4. There's no original biblical sorce that I can rely on

 

5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus?

 

6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach.

 

7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia

 

8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus

 

9. Faith is subjective

Regarding 6 ...

Why do you personally think this was not possible?

 

Regarding 7 ...

I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony?

"Regarding 6?" O.C. Start with reason #1.

You were a Christian, right? Tell me what prayer response did Christ receive in the Garden of Gethsemane?

You have the Spirit of God, why pick and choose?

 

 

What does the indwelling of the Holy Spirit have to do with which question I ask. I'll tell you. None.

 

If I provided links to the answers would you read them?

OC, the baiting and manipulating you were doing to Chris was obvious to me too. I imagine it was obvious to him as well. He has been quite brilliant in his responses to you just by being honest and open, and he wasn't even debating you.

 

You asked him some eight or nine questions in the first few posts but gave no answers. I asked why you chose his question #6, and not # 1. I saw what you were doing. You responded to me with more ridiculous rabbit hole questions.

 

I know we haven't had much dialogue on this website, but I always thought of you as some kind of artful dodger. A lot of floating like a butterfly, but no stinging like a bee. Now, someone said you are a predator, and I agree. There is something wrong with you, OC, and you need to repent. That means a change of mind that causes a change in direction but you knew that.

 

You know the verse where (I think it was Paul) said that because of you the name of Christ is blasphemed in the world? I think he was talking about you and Christians like you OC.

 

Oh, and the garden of Gethsemane? What response would Jesus have expected from his prayer? He knew why he was sent. He knew he was going to die. He knew that he could call ten thousand angels if he wanted to. He knew that in three days he would be alive again. Read the story as it is, OC, without your biased Christian goggles on. Look at the big picture.

He was talking to himself in the garden, and he wasn't (and this is key) praying for healing; he was praying for deliverance from himself.

You should do the same, and if that doesn't work, I'm willing to bet that most folks here would understand and try to help you.

 

 

 

 

.

In OrdinaryClays mind and many christians like him/her they are always communicating to us and the world through a lens that they think is pefect. Trying to tell someone that their lens is out of alignment when they think it's in perfect alignment solves nothing, untill they pull apart the device that holds the lens and see for themself if in fact the lens is faulty there's nothing anyone can do.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

Please stay away from the tarot.

 

 

Here we see the christian's attempt at shifting focus away from his own misdeeds while simultaneously leveling a subtle accusation against the honest man.

 

 

Sorry Prof, but that's not right.

 

Clay doesn't care a flying **** what we think about him.

 

He may be concerned about Chrisstavrous (hence the warning) but I suspect the bulk of his interest in mental health issues stems from his long-standing interest in demons, demonology and demonic activity.

 

Please Google "Ordinaryclay + demon" and make sure you're sitting down when the results come up... you won't be prepared for what you find.

(Not 'ordinary clay + demon'.  Ordinaryclay as one word + demon.)

 

Don't say I didn't warn you! 

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

 

OC, the baiting and manipulating you were doing to Chris was obvious to me too. I imagine it was obvious to him as well. He has been quite brilliant in his responses to you just by being honest and open, and he wasn't even debating you.

 

You asked him some eight or nine questions in the first few posts but gave no answers. I asked why you chose his question #6, and not # 1. I saw what you were doing. You responded to me with more ridiculous rabbit hole questions. 

 

I know we haven't had much dialogue on this website, but I always thought of you as some kind of artful dodger. A lot of floating like a butterfly, but no stinging like a bee.  Now, someone said you are a predator, and I agree. There is something wrong with you, OC, and you need to repent. That means a change of mind that causes a change in direction but you knew that.

 

You know the verse where (I think it was Paul) said that because of you the name of Christ is blasphemed in the world?  I think he was talking about you and Christians like you OC.

 

Oh, and the garden of Gethsemane? What response would Jesus have expected from his prayer? He knew why he was sent. He knew he was going to die. He knew that he could call ten thousand angels if he wanted to. He knew that in three days he would be alive again. Read the story as it is, OC, without your biased Christian goggles on. Look at the big picture.

He was talking to himself in the garden, and he wasn't (and this is key) praying for healing; he was praying for deliverance from himself.

You should do the same, and if that doesn't work, I'm willing to bet that most folks here would understand and try to help you.

 

 

 

 

.   

 

 

To gain an insight into why Clay is so very interested in Chrisstavrous' mental health, please see my last message.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

[bornagainathiest]

Chrisstavrous,

 

Please understand that Ordinaryclay may well be interested in your wellbeing (hence the warning about tarot), but the main reason for his questions about your mental health spring from his decades-long, abiding 'interest' in things demonic. 

 

Therefore, I caution you not to give him any personal information and do not under any circumstances engage in private dialog with him.  This is as much for his own good as yours.  Letting him into your confidence would be dangerous for you.  Providing him with further material to feed his 'interest' would also be unhealthy for him.

 

Please tread carefully.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

[creative]

Chrisstavrous,

 

Please understand that Ordinaryclay may well be interested in your wellbeing (hence the warning about tarot), but the main reason for his questions about your mental health spring from his decades-long, abiding 'interest' in things demonic. 

 

Therefore, I caution you not to give him any personal information and do not under any circumstances engage in private dialog with him.  This is as much for his own good as yours.  Letting him into your confidence would be dangerous for you.  Providing him with further material to feed his 'interest' would also be unhealthy for him.

 

Please tread carefully.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

 

I always say there is only 1 person you can really trust in your life, and that is ME .. emm i mean YOURSELF

 

And a other nice fact one needs to realize is that people always have there own best interest in mind.. never yours..people do good to others to satisfy there own selfish needs, thats just ho humans work.

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

Chrisstavrous,

 

Please understand that Ordinaryclay may well be interested in your wellbeing (hence the warning about tarot), but the main reason for his questions about your mental health spring from his decades-long, abiding 'interest' in things demonic. 

 

Therefore, I caution you not to give him any personal information and do not under any circumstances engage in private dialog with him.  This is as much for his own good as yours.  Letting him into your confidence would be dangerous for you.  Providing him with further material to feed his 'interest' would also be unhealthy for him.

 

Please tread carefully.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

I have seen some of the tripe OC has put out. Man oh man. Back in my religious days, we were warned to avoid people who obsessed about demonology and the like. You were not supposed to interact with them at ALL. It was generally assumed that by overly delving into the effects and incidents of such things you were opening yourself up. If I were to put on my religious goggles again right now and observe OC's clear addiction with the occult, I would say he has a demon problem of his own ruining his life. Luckily, I know better now. He probably does suffer fantasies of making "the perfect deal" though. I know several people who thought they did. Mental hospitals now, the whole lot of them.

[Ravenstar]

Christians aren't the only ones, I know people in the new age and pagan community that get far too interested/involved in the 'scary' side of woo. It's never a good thing and breeds paranoia and all sorts of instability. Then they start talking about being 'psychically attacked' and ... sigh. We have powerful imaginations and can misinterpret all sorts of things... best to stay positive and focus on the good stuff while dealing with our legitimate problems and obstacles in the real world.

 

There's enough crap in reality to deal with without searching for negative stuff in the 'supernatural'.

[bornagainathiest]

Chrisstavrous,

 

Please understand that Ordinaryclay may well be interested in your wellbeing (hence the warning about tarot), but the main reason for his questions about your mental health spring from his decades-long, abiding 'interest' in things demonic. 

 

Therefore, I caution you not to give him any personal information and do not under any circumstances engage in private dialog with him.  This is as much for his own good as yours.  Letting him into your confidence would be dangerous for you.  Providing him with further material to feed his 'interest' would also be unhealthy for him.

 

Please tread carefully.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

 

Further thoughts, Chrisstavrous.

 

Clay doesn't play nice, he plays dirty.

He'll take advantage of any rule or guideline that he can to futher his own ends.  This... Note: In view of the fiery nature of the discussions which occur in the Lion's Den, only those with a fairly thick skin should participate. ...may well be the ruling he'll fall back on, if challenged about his behavior toward you.  He'll probably claim that because you knowingly put yourself in the Lion's Den, you therefore put yourself in the line of fire.  If you get hurt, you've only got yourself to blame for putting yourself in harm's way.

 

He's smart enough to operate (mostly) within the Den, so that he can disavow himself of any responsibility for hurt caused. 

 

Therefore Chris, my advice to you is, from now on, post only outside the Den.

If you have any questions, thoughts, observations or anything else to say, please try and find the most suitable area of the forum to do so.  Then, if Clay does get aggressive towards you, he won't be able to justify his actions, because you and he will be outside of the Den - where such nastiness is not tolerated.

 

Think of this as a way of drawing Clay's fangs and forcing him to curb his hurtful ways.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

 

[chrisstavrous]

 

 

Chrisstavrous,

 

Please understand that Ordinaryclay may well be interested in your wellbeing (hence the warning about tarot), but the main reason for his questions about your mental health spring from his decades-long, abiding 'interest' in things demonic.

 

Therefore, I caution you not to give him any personal information and do not under any circumstances engage in private dialog with him. This is as much for his own good as yours. Letting him into your confidence would be dangerous for you. Providing him with further material to feed his 'interest' would also be unhealthy for him.

 

Please tread carefully.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

Further thoughts, Chrisstavrous.

 

Clay doesn't play nice, he plays dirty.

He'll take advantage of any rule or guideline that he can to futher his own ends. This... Note: In view of the fiery nature of the discussions which occur in the Lion's Den, only those with a fairly thick skin should participate. ...may well be the ruling he'll fall back on, if challenged about his behavior toward you. He'll probably claim that because you knowingly put yourself in the Lion's Den, you therefore put yourself in the line of fire. If you get hurt, you've only got yourself to blame for putting yourself in harm's way.

 

He's smart enough to operate (mostly) within the Den, so that he can disavow himself of any responsibility for hurt caused.

 

Therefore Chris, my advice to you is, from now on, post only outside the Den.

If you have any questions, thoughts, observations or anything else to say, please try and find the most suitable area of the forum to do so. Then, if Clay does get aggressive towards you, he won't be able to justify his actions, because you and he will be outside of the Den - where such nastiness is not tolerated.

 

Think of this as a way of drawing Clay's fangs and forcing him to curb his hurtful ways.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

At least I know people here really give a shit, unlike the countless hours I spent in christian forums thinking that "they're gods people, they have my back" only to be hurt over and and over. But don't mistake my sensitivity as a weakness in matters like this, it will be my greatest strength when dealing with OrdinaryClay and other christians.

[milesaway]

 

 

Chrisstavrous,

 

Please understand that Ordinaryclay may well be interested in your wellbeing (hence the warning about tarot), but the main reason for his questions about your mental health spring from his decades-long, abiding 'interest' in things demonic.

 

Therefore, I caution you not to give him any personal information and do not under any circumstances engage in private dialog with him. This is as much for his own good as yours. Letting him into your confidence would be dangerous for you. Providing him with further material to feed his 'interest' would also be unhealthy for him.

 

Please tread carefully.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

Further thoughts, Chrisstavrous.

 

Clay doesn't play nice, he plays dirty.

He'll take advantage of any rule or guideline that he can to futher his own ends. This... Note: In view of the fiery nature of the discussions which occur in the Lion's Den, only those with a fairly thick skin should participate. ...may well be the ruling he'll fall back on, if challenged about his behavior toward you. He'll probably claim that because you knowingly put yourself in the Lion's Den, you therefore put yourself in the line of fire. If you get hurt, you've only got yourself to blame for putting yourself in harm's way.

 

He's smart enough to operate (mostly) within the Den, so that he can disavow himself of any responsibility for hurt caused.

 

Therefore Chris, my advice to you is, from now on, post only outside the Den.

If you have any questions, thoughts, observations or anything else to say, please try and find the most suitable area of the forum to do so. Then, if Clay does get aggressive towards you, he won't be able to justify his actions, because you and he will be outside of the Den - where such nastiness is not tolerated.

 

Think of this as a way of drawing Clay's fangs and forcing him to curb his hurtful ways.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

At least I know people here really give a shit, unlike the countless hours I spent in christian forums thinking that "they're gods people, they have my back" only to be hurt over and and over. But don't mistake my sensitivity as a weakness in matters like this, it will be my greatest strength when dealing with OrdinaryClay and other christians.

 

 

I give a damn. I experienced something similar at the xtian forum I used to post at, though with a couple exceptions, they ignored me there. Surprise, surprise. OrdinaryClay (along with any other xtian) has no right whatsoever to pry into your life and attack you, or anyone else on this forum who has either gone back to their native religion or has decided to be done with religion altogether. OrdinaryClay's sneaky enough to operate on just this side of the law, and he knows this. If he steps even one toe out of line, you know what to do.

[chrisstavrous]

It seems no christian has given me an answer about my question to return to god, and the christians that did come in here have not said anything further. So I think this discussion is at it's end.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

It seems no christian has given me an answer about my question to return to god, and the christians that did come in here have not said anything further. So I think this discussion is at it's end.

 

In that case, welcome to the dark side.

[milesaway]

It seems no christian has given me an answer about my question to return to god, and the christians that did come in here have not said anything further. So I think this discussion is at it's end.

 

It's because they won't give you a good reason to go back. They can't. If you can't think of a solid reason for someone to go back to religion, then deep down on some level, you know there isn't one. And if you have to resort to personal attacks, scare tactics and fallacies galore in order to try to win someone over, then it tells you all you need to know about it's validity.

[chrisstavrous]

Fucking flying spaghetti monster what have I done, what have I become. This religion has taken everything away from me, how am I going to fix everything now I have lost so much time believing in a god who was never there.

[milesaway]

Fucking flying spaghetti monster what have I done, what have I become. This religion has taken everything away from me, how am I going to fix everything now I have lost so much time believing in a god who was never there.

 

You learned the truth sooner instead of later. You can pick up the pieces and move forward with reclaiming and rebuilding your life. It's gonna be tough at first, but it's doable. I'm angry at the time I lost to religion, but then again, any amount of time is too much, whether it's 3 weeks, 3 months or 30 years. You deserve a good life without superstition and the supernatural in it, no matter what a batshit fundy like OC says

[Ralet]

 

Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing.

 

1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself

 

2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good

 

3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels

 

4. There's no original biblical source's that I can rely on

 

5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus?

 

6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach.

 

7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia

 

8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus

 

9. Faith is subjective

 

Dude, you are my soul brother.   I promise not to give you a formulaic response.  I hate church and fundamentalist Christianity.  However, I love God, even though he scares me to death most of the time. 

 

1.  Time.  We all know that we'll freaking die one day.  We all hate it.  I hate the fact that my life is winding down.  I'm going to be 50 this year.  I don't like it.  We all have to deal with eternity.   I wish it wasn't so.  But we have to.  I've been saved for about 35 years.  The longer I'm a Christian, the less I feel saved.  Jesus scares the heck out of me.   I have had a freakishly bizarre nightmare for almost 15 years.  I wake up sometimes at night from a dream, thinking I'm literally in hell.  It scares the freaking heck out of me.  It usually takes me about 5 seconds to realize that I was just dreaming.  The doctrine of hell has always freaking terrified me. However, I cannot remain in one place because of it.  I must move on.

 

2.  This next statement might make you vomit.  It's not intended in any sense to be a stupid, trite Christian comment.  Rather, it's what I have slowly been realizing it's what I need to do to survive this life.  I haven't done it yet, but, I am going to start cutting out verses from Jesus that relay only a positive message.  My soul tells me that God is good.  My soul tells me that hell isn't.  I am simply going to start posting a verse on my mirror once  week and start accepting it.  For example, I might put something up like, "If any man comes unto me, I will in no wise cast him out" and then start believing it.  Forget the other shit that's out there.  Just focus on the good attributes of God.  For all we know, hell was invented by Satan as a decoy, in an attempt to get us to hate God. 

 

3.  You are SO right.  There are almost no people who seem to be true Christians.  How can this be?  

 

4.   As for original biblical sources, I have done a shit load of study on this topic.  The ancient biblical texts are far-and-away the most authenticated texts from ancient times.  Nothing even comes close.  For example, the Dead Sea scrolls discovered in 1947 contained the entire book of Isaiah, a verbatim translation of Isaiah that perfectly matched up with the Isaiah that we have today. Not trying to offend anyone, but, folks who say that the old resources aren't reliable have never done any real research on the issue.  

 

5.  Science and God don't conflict like you think they do.  Again, done a crap load of research on this issue.  Not in an attempt to support my dogma, but to find out what the freaking truth is.  People run to science for protection, but it really doesn't offer crap.  Consider, 13.7 billion years ago, scientists agree that NOTHING existed.  If nothing existed, then how did everything come into existence?  It's scientifically impossible, yet people claim it's possible.  Also, our bodies are freaking super computers that can do unimaginable things that real computers could never do.  How in the hell could a pool of slime assemble itself into a 3 trillion cell super computer that works on its own?  It can't.   Science completely defies common sense.  I'm the kind of guy who reads posters in doctor's offices, intrigued by the incredible complexity of the body.  No freaking way were the systems in the body created by some monkey farting while eating green slime.  No way.   That type of faith is as blind as faith in God without reason.

 

We are all in for the fight of our lives.  There will never be an easy way to figure out God.  For the atheist, there is equally no easy way to figure how a universe could be created out of nothing.   So, we are all stuck in this crappy situation of trying to figure out where to go.  My vote is to focus on the positive attributes of Jesus.  Why Jesus and not another religion?  What do the other religions offer?  Jesus is the only one who died for the sins of anybody.   The positive side of Jesus outweighs what other religions offer.  Is this the perfect solution?  No.  But it's a good start.  

 

This makes me so sad. Why are you clinging to something that isnt good for you and that you are not sure to be true? Your reasons are exactly the reasons why women dont want to leave their abusive husband. "he has a good side, he has changed, i will not find another/better men,i deserve this,..."

 

Jesus is the only one who died for the sins of anybody. 

I never understood why that should be such a great sacrifices. who wouldnt die if he could save billions of people doing that? and why did he have to die anyway? this is just another guilt-based addiction mechanism.god puts you in this situation, saves you from it and you have to be thankful and worship him.