Christians Why Should I Return To God

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

Yes, OC, you are indeed a predator.  I saw the way you preyed on Chris, and I was appalled by the rudeness and intrusiveness of your questions.  If this were My forum, I'd have kicked you out months ago.

 

And I just have this to say about your assertion that "I have heard many, many, many testimonies of people whose lives improved with Christianity - including mine."

 

It did not improve our lives.

 

If you can't respect that much, go away and don't ever come back here.

 

Religions and beliefs in gods are really no different than medicine, which is something that OC doesn't quite realize. One type of medicine does not cure and help everyone. For some, it works great, but for others, they either experience nasty side effects or nothing happens. It's like he's trying to sell a medicine by saying that he has heard of many people that it's helped, therefore, everyone needs it and must use it.

 

Then, he's pointing his finger at everyone who has experienced bad side effects because of this one medicine and saying, "It is only here where I read about people who took the medicine and it didn't help or caused suffering".

 

It's almost as if he's accusing us of something. We must not have read all of the warning labels, followed all the directions when taking the medicine, or maybe we didn't use the correct dosage. Obviously, because the medicine helps a lot of people, it must be the best there is and no one can possibly experience bad side effects, unless they did something wrong while taking the medication. If anyone tried to sell a medication like that, no one would trust them or take the medicine.

 

When it comes to religion, it works just like any medicine for people who either need it or don't need it, but for some reason, religions are not treated the same, even when they should be.

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

Regarding 6 ...

Why do you personally think this was not possible?

 

Regarding 7 ...

I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony?

It's not I didn't think it was impossible I had no interest in the reward of eternal life, I just wanted to have a full life like jesus promised. As for my testimony I don't have anything in-depth about my mental illness.

Jesus' promises were not the promises of this world. What did you understand a full life to be?

 

Did your illness come on after you became a Christian?

A full life I believe would have been a life where jesus filled my emptyness to overflowing, this also was something jesus promised. As for my schizophrenia, that came after.

 

I don't know that our cups runneth over as I view the thing as a process.

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

I wanted to give you answers that my own pastors and peers had tried to placate me with as well, and obviously, I saw right through them:

 

Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing.

 

1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself - Reason: Man is living in the Fall. God does not promise ease of suffering on earth.

 

2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good : Reason: God's rationale is not for us to understand because we cannot comprehend Him.

 

3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels:

Reason:  The big question is, must we accept the view that the Bible and science can't both be true? Then they would start showing me all the christian scientists in the world.4.

 

4. There's no original biblical source's that I can rely on: Reason - It doesn't matter because our faith teaches us He is real.

5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus? Answer I was given said to be baptized, accept him as savior, and follow his teachings in the NT. Pretty vague huh?

 

6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach. Reason - You did not completely submit to god. God just wants submission.

 

7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia - See answer one about the Fall.

 

8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus - Reason: No one can be even close to Jesus because he was born sinless. We sin every day.

 

9. Faith is subjective - Reason: Because it is tailor made for you, the individual. Every relationship with god is different for everyone.

[Ravenstar]

Good one Zomberina

 

but...   And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen.  "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."  (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)

 

    Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.  (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)

 

    Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.  For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.  (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)

 

    Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him.  Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours.  (Mark 11:24-25 NAB)

 

     And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.  (Luke 11:9-13 NAB)

 

    And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.  (John 14:13-14 NAB)

 

    If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.  (John 15:7 NAB)

 

   It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you.  (John 15:16 NAB)

 

   On that day you will not question me about anything.  Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you.  Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete. (John 16:23-24 NAB)

 

 

hmmm.... someone is telling fibs

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

Good one Zomberina

 

but...   And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen.  "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."  (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)

 

    Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.  (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)

 

    Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.  For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.  (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)

 

    Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him.  Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours.  (Mark 11:24-25 NAB)

 

     And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.  (Luke 11:9-13 NAB)

 

    And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.  (John 14:13-14 NAB)

 

    If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.  (John 15:7 NAB)

 

   It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you.  (John 15:16 NAB)

 

   On that day you will not question me about anything.  Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you.  Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete. (John 16:23-24 NAB)

 

 

hmmm.... someone is telling fibs

Oh no, it's very true he made promises like that. Totally did, but, again..as I was told, and this is just the church logic handed to me, not necessarily true.  Why weren't the prophets performing miracles like Jesus did? Oh.. that's right. They did. But why not after Jesus resurrection? Because everything you ask for afterwards comes from God, and if you don't get what you asked for... You weren't really truly submitted to God..that's why.   It's all horse shit really.

 

Your quotation from Luke about ask and ye shall receive has to do with reaping what you sow in regards to relationships. The context of your scripture is in full context when using all of the entire lesson and not just that part in particular. (That's how I rebutt christards on that one).

 

The same for the Mark script about the mountain. It's an analogy and clearly so when you look at the rest of the scripture attached with it.

 

It's like quoting me from a speech mentioning a part where I say I like ketchup. If you leave out the rest of the statement you took the snippet from, the context is lost and all you think is that in general,  I like ketchup. But, if you look at the whole speech and what I said, "When eating eggs, it just doesn't taste right without something. In that case, I like ketchup." It really changes just how much I like ketchup or even when. The mountain scripture has to do with faith being shown and God will help you out if you truly believe. There is no standard for how much belief you must have or what the bar to meet is to verify it is belief and not just wishful thinking.

 

It's all shit.

[Ravenstar]

Yes, yes it is....  

 

But we all believed, didn't we? and he DID promise if we just asked sincerely and with faith...

[Guest end3]

Mock, mock, mockity mock mock....(.all in good spirit ladies).  I don't see how these statements are not at least reasonably true.  With regard to the ones that have no Cause behind them, how are the ones like "seek and you shall find" not really apt? 

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

Mock, mock, mockity mock mock....(.all in good spirit ladies).  I don't see how these statements are not at least reasonably true.  With regard to the ones that have no Cause behind them, how are the ones like "seek and you shall find" not really apt? 

Which statements? My earlier list of nonsense excuses I was handed to Chrisst, or are you talking about Raven's? And why are they (edited out not) reasonably true?

[milesaway]

Chris, I can relate completely to the pain and misery caused by the christian religion.  Although I have never been diagnosed with any particular mental ailment, I do know and can clearly recall a period in my christian life when I was losing my mind.  It was a horrendously dark period in my life because I was completely aware that I was going insane; I had conscious perception of my brain literally being fractured and broken.  I was sad because my mind has always been my greatest friend and ally.  The thought of losing it was deeply discomforting to me.  Fortunately, my mind was strong enough to recover; but it could have just as easily gone the other way.  It was an extremely close near-miss.  This episode has made me intensely sensitive to others whose minds have been broken by the christian religion.  It's a good sign that you can see OrdinaryClay for what he is and that you can respond to his attacks in an objective manner.

 

So can I. The last several months I was at the last church I visited were an absolute mindfuck, as if the situation there wasn't bad enough in and of itself. Mentally speaking, it was the darkest time of my life, and it made the time I got a little down on myself my senior year of high school look like a walk in the park. I felt like I was going insane, like I couldn't trust anyone, and I couldn't trust myself. I felt like it was all over for me. I felt like I was dead inside. There were people I thought I could turn to, since I talked to them on occasion after church. I thought they'd listen, but instead they backed away from me and completely ignored me from that point on. Then again, I had to chase them down in order to get them to talk to me in the first place. Almost all of them pried into my life and made me feel like shit about my family and my upbringing. At the time I felt like it was better than nothing, and that I needed to take what I could get. They wouldn't have ever given me the time of day had it not been for one thing and one thing only.

 

I feel like I've come a long way since this time a year ago. I've thrown out all the journals I kept at the time, but one managed to escape the dragnet. It's buried in my closet under a pile of clothes and other random things. It will be gone come garbage day this week. The memories of it are painful enough without the reminders.

[Brother Jeff]

 

 

 

A full life I believe would have been a life where jesus filled my emptyness to overflowing, this also was something jesus promised. As for my schizophrenia, that came after.

 

 

 

I sure feel for you.  My problem was depression.  Why didn't Jesus take away my depression?  I battled with it and prayed for decades.  It was so ironic how much my depression improved when I left religion.  And you are right about Jesus making a lot of promises in the Bible and none of them happened.

 

 

My problem is bipolar disorder, which wasn't properly diagnosed until I was 32. That was two years before I left the fundamentalist Christian cult. I prayed and prayed for healing for many years when nobody knew what was wrong with me, with no results other than some religious highs. I was prayed for in church many times, "slain the spirit" many times, was told that god was doing "spiritual surgery" on me while I was slain the spirit several times. Again, the only result all those prayers got was some short-lived religious highs. God never did anything at all to help me or heal me. I got better after I was properly diagnosed and after we finally found a medication (Geodon) that works. That process took YEARS, but most of the time now I feel and function well. No thanks at all to god...

[Guest end3]

 

Mock, mock, mockity mock mock....(.all in good spirit ladies).  I don't see how these statements are not at least reasonably true.  With regard to the ones that have no Cause behind them, how are the ones like "seek and you shall find" not really apt? 

Which statements? My earlier list of nonsense excuses I was handed to Chrisst, or are you talking about Raven's? And why are they (edited out not) reasonably true?

 

I was referring to the lines Rav quoted.  It just seems that if it comes from Christianity you are saying that it's all without merit.  I just think it is perspective much of the time and especially when viewed from an extended period of bias.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

 

 

 

Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing.

 

1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself

 

2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good

 

3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels

 

4. There's no original biblical sorce that I can rely on

 

5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus?

 

6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach.

 

7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia

 

8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus

 

9. Faith is subjective

Regarding 6 ...

Why do you personally think this was not possible?

 

Regarding 7 ...

I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony?

Here we see an man putting forth in a clear and articulate manner the honest questions he has concerning the faith he once practiced. We also see the "christian" response in OrdinaryClay immediately attacking what he views as the honest man's weaknesses. Christians prey on weakness because they know their "arguments" cannont stand up to the strength of honesty, let alone logical scrutiny. Let OrdinaryClay forever be remembered as a man who preyed upon the weaknesses of others instead of engaging in honest debate.

"You will know them [True Christians] by their fruit"

 

The very words of Jesus; who mixed with sinners without condemning them, served the poor and needy, tended the sick and who had mercy and compassion on the weak - while the scripture-obsessed Pharisees sat in self-righteous judgement and had only scorn for those weaker than themselves.

 

Your last sentence cuts thru the crap and exposes the truth Prof.

 

BAA

That was my intention, BAA. Left unchecked, I think Clay would have teased at Chris' "weaknesses" until he had the man maneuvered into a position where Clay could easily claim that the state of Chris' mental health was the reason for his doubts and disbeliefs. Such a manipulator. He even feigned compassion to gain trust, the sick bastard.

Actually I did have a christian friend who said that to me when my doubts plagued me day and night. He could not admit that christianity was my problem. (Alot of pain and missery back with those people )

 

Please stay away from the tarot.

[bornagainathiest]

What about UFO's?  Stay away from those too?

[Margee]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing.

 

1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself

 

2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good

 

3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels

 

4. There's no original biblical sorce that I can rely on

 

5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus?

 

6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach.

 

7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia

 

8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus

 

9. Faith is subjective

Regarding 6 ...

Why do you personally think this was not possible?

 

Regarding 7 ...

I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony?

Here we see an man putting forth in a clear and articulate manner the honest questions he has concerning the faith he once practiced. We also see the "christian" response in OrdinaryClay immediately attacking what he views as the honest man's weaknesses. Christians prey on weakness because they know their "arguments" cannont stand up to the strength of honesty, let alone logical scrutiny. Let OrdinaryClay forever be remembered as a man who preyed upon the weaknesses of others instead of engaging in honest debate.

"You will know them [True Christians] by their fruit"

 

The very words of Jesus; who mixed with sinners without condemning them, served the poor and needy, tended the sick and who had mercy and compassion on the weak - while the scripture-obsessed Pharisees sat in self-righteous judgement and had only scorn for those weaker than themselves.

 

Your last sentence cuts thru the crap and exposes the truth Prof.

 

BAA

That was my intention, BAA. Left unchecked, I think Clay would have teased at Chris' "weaknesses" until he had the man maneuvered into a position where Clay could easily claim that the state of Chris' mental health was the reason for his doubts and disbeliefs. Such a manipulator. He even feigned compassion to gain trust, the sick bastard.

Actually I did have a christian friend who said that to me when my doubts plagued me day and night. He could not admit that christianity was my problem. (Alot of pain and missery back with those people )

 

Please stay away from the tarot.

 

 

chris read my tarot cards for me a while back and it was right on. The cards were much more reliable than god ever was.

 

Keep reading chris!! You won't go to hell. Have some fun!!

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing.

 

1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself

 

2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good

 

3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels

 

4. There's no original biblical sorce that I can rely on

 

5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus?

 

6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach.

 

7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia

 

8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus

 

9. Faith is subjective

Regarding 6 ...

Why do you personally think this was not possible?

 

Regarding 7 ...

I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony?

Here we see an man putting forth in a clear and articulate manner the honest questions he has concerning the faith he once practiced. We also see the "christian" response in OrdinaryClay immediately attacking what he views as the honest man's weaknesses. Christians prey on weakness because they know their "arguments" cannont stand up to the strength of honesty, let alone logical scrutiny. Let OrdinaryClay forever be remembered as a man who preyed upon the weaknesses of others instead of engaging in honest debate.

"You will know them [True Christians] by their fruit"

 

The very words of Jesus; who mixed with sinners without condemning them, served the poor and needy, tended the sick and who had mercy and compassion on the weak - while the scripture-obsessed Pharisees sat in self-righteous judgement and had only scorn for those weaker than themselves.

 

Your last sentence cuts thru the crap and exposes the truth Prof.

 

BAA

That was my intention, BAA. Left unchecked, I think Clay would have teased at Chris' "weaknesses" until he had the man maneuvered into a position where Clay could easily claim that the state of Chris' mental health was the reason for his doubts and disbeliefs. Such a manipulator. He even feigned compassion to gain trust, the sick bastard.

Actually I did have a christian friend who said that to me when my doubts plagued me day and night. He could not admit that christianity was my problem. (Alot of pain and missery back with those people )

 

Please stay away from the tarot.

 

 

Here we see the christian's attempt at shifting focus away from his own misdeeds while simultaneously leveling a subtle accusation against the honest man.

[slave2six]

Please stay away from the tarot.

 

At least tarot cards are real. Whether they work or not is another question. But from the get-go they're one-up on your god.

[DrGuitar]

No reason to go back unless they prove the Bible is inspired by God which would also mean historically accurate...why would a man inspired by God get his history all wrong? Its ridiculous...the Bible falls apart when you examine it critically as opposed to with a devotional persepctive...there is no going back because the absurdities and errors cannot be erased...

 

The history of the hebrews is fabricated, the stories are absurdly impossible, the take of the Christ is borrowed...once you know all this it can NOT ever work for you again...I do sometimes wish I still believed given the psychic benefits but I cant deceive myself....so I have belief in an unknown God...hey where have I heard that?!

[Margee]

No reason to go back unless they prove the Bible is inspired by God which would also mean historically accurate...why would a man inspired by God get his history all wrong? Its ridiculous...the Bible falls apart when you examine it critically as opposed to with a devotional persepctive...there is no going back because the absurdities and errors cannot be

erased...

 

Even jesus thought the world was flat.

 

Even if the whole thing was proven to be right historically, it still doesn't 'prove' that god spoke through these 'authors'. God has NO voice.

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

The way OC plagues other forums, including Christian based sites is kind of still making me wonder if he is really worth the example. He just gets folks riled up to have us lash out so he can say,"See? You are so full of anger. God could solve this."

[Deva]

 

Please stay away from the tarot.

 

At least tarot cards are real. Whether they work or not is another question. But from the get-go they're one-up on your god.

 

At least the pictures are interesting. Something I can no longer say about the Bible.

[chrisstavrous]

 

 

I wanted to give you answers that my own pastors and peers had tried to placate me with as well, and obviously, I saw right through them:

 

Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing.

 

1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself - Reason: Man is living in the Fall. God does not promise ease of suffering on earth.

 

Rebuttal

 

God does promise to ease suffering if he promises to heal us.

 

2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good : Reason: God's rationale is not for us to understand because we cannot comprehend Him.

 

Rebuttal

 

How can you follow anything you can't comprehend, that's like trying to fly a plane without knowing how it works.

 

3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels:

Reason: The big question is, must we accept the view that the Bible and science can't both be true? Then they would start showing me all the christian scientists in the world.4.

 

Rebuttal

 

We must accept that their are real conflicts between the bibles information and the information we have now about natural science. Such as the story in the bible of the sun standing still in the sky for almost a full day.

 

4. There's no original biblical source's that I can rely on: Reason - It doesn't matter because our faith teaches us He is real.

 

Rebuttal

 

It does matter if our faith is dependent on accepting the bible as the evidence of god, faith and truth.

 

5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus? Answer I was given said to be baptized, accept him as savior, and follow his teachings in the NT. Pretty vague huh?

 

Rebuttal

 

Yes very vague

 

6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach. Reason - You did not completely submit to god. God just wants submission.

 

Rebuttal

 

In other words a slave

 

John 15:15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

 

Any friend that would have me as a servant, slave or worse is no friend of mine.

 

7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia - See answer one about the Fall.

 

Rebuttal

 

Its not having the illness I am upset about, it's the fact god has never explained to me or helped me understand how to cope and deal with it through my faith.

 

8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus - Reason: No one can be even close to Jesus because he was born sinless. We sin every day.

 

Rebuttal

 

That's what I am saying, no one comes close, close meaning even like him.

 

 

9. Faith is subjective - Reason: Because it is tailor made for you, the individual. Every relationship with god is different for everyone.

 

Rebuttal

 

Then there must be 2.4 billion jesus, I thought jesus was only one way, one truth and one god. Well that's what most christians say before they assure you that their brand of truth is the right one.

Read post inclosed.

[RipVanWinkle]

"You see I do get out far and have for decades" OC

 

you're far our alright. bull

[midniterider]

 

I have heard many, man, many testimonies of people who's lives improved with Christianity - including mine. The only place I hear of the reverse is hear. Now why do you think that's the case?

 

It doesn't matter if it improves or not - that is not an evidence of truth.  My life has gotten a ton better since I left Xtianity - why do YOU think THAT'S the case?

 

 

If our lives had gotten worse after we left Christianity, we'd have gone back to Christianity. :-)

[midniterider]

I have heard many, man, many testimonies of people who's lives improved with Christianity - including mine. The only place I hear of the reverse is hear. Now why do you think that's the case? OC

 

Your hear the reverse HEAR? Just pulling your leg. I make the same kind of mistakes myself.

 

But seriously, you always want to argue peripheral issues but ignore the critical ones. Like. how do you explain the horrible atrocities the biblical god visits on people according to the bible? How do you

reconcile them with there being a good god? And how do you explain the many conflicts in the bible?

Son't give me that shit about god being mysterious, which only means you can't possibly explain it. bill

 

God kills, but we cannot understand the mind of god. He is mysterious. He kills for the greater good of us all. Why question what we do not understand?

Satan kills, but he's evil. :-) haha

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

 

 

I wanted to give you answers that my own pastors and peers had tried to placate me with as well, and obviously, I saw right through them:

 

Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing.

 

1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself - Reason: Man is living in the Fall. God does not promise ease of suffering on earth.

 

Rebuttal

 

God does promise to ease suffering if he promises to heal us.

 

2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good : Reason: God's rationale is not for us to understand because we cannot comprehend Him.

 

Rebuttal

 

How can you follow anything you can't comprehend, that's like trying to fly a plane without knowing how it works.

 

3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels:

Reason: The big question is, must we accept the view that the Bible and science can't both be true? Then they would start showing me all the christian scientists in the world.4.

 

Rebuttal

 

We must accept that their are real conflicts between the bibles information and the information we have now about natural science. Such as the story in the bible of the sun standing still in the sky for almost a full day.

 

4. There's no original biblical source's that I can rely on: Reason - It doesn't matter because our faith teaches us He is real.

 

Rebuttal

 

It does matter if our faith is dependent on accepting the bible as the evidence of god, faith and truth.

 

5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus? Answer I was given said to be baptized, accept him as savior, and follow his teachings in the NT. Pretty vague huh?

 

Rebuttal

 

Yes very vague

 

6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach. Reason - You did not completely submit to god. God just wants submission.

 

Rebuttal

 

In other words a slave

 

John 15:15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

 

Any friend that would have me as a servant, slave or worse is no friend of mine.

 

7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia - See answer one about the Fall.

 

Rebuttal

 

Its not having the illness I am upset about, it's the fact god has never explained to me or helped me understand how to cope and deal with it through my faith.

 

8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus - Reason: No one can be even close to Jesus because he was born sinless. We sin every day.

 

Rebuttal

 

That's what I am saying, no one comes close, close meaning even like him.

 

 

9. Faith is subjective - Reason: Because it is tailor made for you, the individual. Every relationship with god is different for everyone.

 

Rebuttal

 

Then there must be 2.4 billion jesus, I thought jesus was only one way, one truth and one god. Well that's what most christians say before they assure you that their brand of truth is the right one.

Read post inclosed.

 

You don't need to rebutt me Chrisst, I completely agree it's a bunch of shite. The same rebuttals you offer is what I had as well.