Christians Why Should I Return To God

[MerryG]

 

 

Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing.

 

1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself

 

2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good

 

3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels

 

4. There's no original biblical sorce that I can rely on

 

5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus?

 

6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach.

 

7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia

 

8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus

 

9. Faith is subjective

Regarding 6 ...

Why do you personally think this was not possible?

 

Regarding 7 ...

I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony?

 

 

Here we see an man putting forth in a clear and articulate manner the honest questions he has concerning the faith he once practiced.  We also see the "christian" response in OrdinaryClay immediately attacking what he views as the honest man's weaknesses.  Christians prey on weakness because they know their "arguments" cannont stand up to the strength of honesty, let alone logical scrutiny.  Let OrdinaryClay forever be remembered as a man who preyed upon the weaknesses of others instead of engaging in honest debate. 

 

 

Exactly! Well-said, RP.

 

It was so blatant, the way OrdinaryClay entirely ignored the "hard" questions dealing with facts and logic and zeroed straight in on emotional vulnerabilities. Exactly like a con artist, cult leader, or any psychopath would do.

 

Or like any person who has no real answers might do as an act of misdirection.

[amateur]

Chrisstavrous, excellent questions!  I've asked most of them myself.

 

Especially #5.  Back when I was born again and taking this all very seriously, I read the bible and thought about things and I came up with what amounted to my own version of Jesus and god and what xianity should be and do.  It didn't take long for me to realize that a 14-year-old girl, alone in her bedroom, reading the bible and trying to apply her own life experiences to it was actually very very funny!  I had no understanding of the culture it had come from, had done and had no way of easily doing (pre-computer days) research on where the bible had come from or the original languages or studies of older myths it may have come from.  It's not easy for a 14-year-old girl to read the bible and follow any actual narrative as it keeps bogging down, stories tend to end abruptly, parables can be interpreted lots of ways and why would my experiences as a girl growing up in a pleasant home in the suburbs of Middle America in the 60's-70's help interpret any of them.  My life at that point was really extremely pleasant and I knew about things like Watergate and Vietnam, but I had no real understanding of why another tribe (we had no tribes where I lived) or country should be killed in the name of god and their land become ours.  I pretty much followed the ten commandments because I had very little opportunity or need to steal or murder or even be rude to my parents (they really were super nice and I was mouthy and they were used to me), I wasn't overly covetous (we really had everything we wanted and I knew that) and adultery wasn't an issue at my age.

 

But I did try to come up with my "own version of xianity and jesus and god" and I did realize that I could not possibly come up with any great truth as a 14-year-old girl doing absolutely no research.  So that was that.  I'm now 49 and I am now positive I will never come up with any great truths that will set me apart in the annals of history for centuries to come.  And I am really good with that!  I love my kids and my husband and it's cool being alive!  And when I die, well, that's that and it was a good life and I did my best at keeping my tiny corner of the world as drama-free and peaceful as possible and I'll be gone to be replaced by other people.  

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing.

 

1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself

 

2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good

 

3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels

 

4. There's no original biblical sorce that I can rely on

 

5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus?

 

6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach.

 

7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia

 

8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus

 

9. Faith is subjective

Regarding 6 ...

Why do you personally think this was not possible?

 

Regarding 7 ...

I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony?

 

 

Here we see an man putting forth in a clear and articulate manner the honest questions he has concerning the faith he once practiced.  We also see the "christian" response in OrdinaryClay immediately attacking what he views as the honest man's weaknesses.  Christians prey on weakness because they know their "arguments" cannont stand up to the strength of honesty, let alone logical scrutiny.  Let OrdinaryClay forever be remembered as a man who preyed upon the weaknesses of others instead of engaging in honest debate. 

 

 

"You will know them [True Christians] by their fruit"

 

The very words of Jesus; who mixed with sinners without condemning them, served the poor and needy, tended the sick and who had mercy and compassion on the weak - while the scripture-obsessed Pharisees sat in self-righteous judgement and had only scorn for those weaker than themselves.

 

Your last sentence cuts thru the crap and exposes the truth Prof.

 

BAA

[Justin]

Dude, you are my soul brother.   I promise not to give you a formulaic response.  I hate church and fundamentalist Christianity.  However, I love God, even though he scares me to death most of the time. 

 

 

You said more with that last sentence than all us here combined ever could hope to do.

[Justin]

 

 

 

I have heard many, man, many testimonies of people who's lives improved with Christianity - including mine. The only place I hear of the reverse is hear. Now why do you think that's the case?

 

You got out more. You got away from the people who pat each other on the back saying "can you believe how lucky god is to have us"?

 

That is your claim. Why should I believe you? Hmm ... you don't believe me and I don't believe you, well ain't that something. Maybe this website is simply a place of like minded commiseration where people congregate to reinforce their anti-Christ attitudes.

 

You see I do get out far and have for decades

 

 

 

 

Are you forgetting that nearly everyone here was Christian at one time? From many different denominations? I was pointing out that you shouldn't be too surprised to learn that there are indeed other people out there who do not share your beliefs, people who have been there and done that so to speak. Of course you will believe only what Christian circles tell you about their own religion, how could it be any other way? You got out and saw that what you thought was one way and written in stone was not exactly what you thought.

[♦ ficino ♦]

People told me how wonderful life was for the Christian.  Even if it turns out not to be true, they said, you'll have lived a wonderful and exciting life.  I tried it, and it was so.  For a while.  But cognitive dissonance set in...

 

reminds me a bit of David Bowie's "Try Some, Buy Some":

 

                                                                     Way back in time

Someone said try some
I tried some
Now buy some, I bought some...
Oh oh oh
After a while
When I had tried them, denied them
I opened my eyes and I saw you...

Not a thing did I have
Not a thing did I see
'Till I called on your love
And your love came to me

 

(http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/davidbowie/trysomebuysome.html)

[bdp]

I have heard many, man, many testimonies of people who's lives improved with Christianity - including mine. The only place I hear of the reverse is hear. Now why do you think that's the case?

 

It doesn't matter if it improves or not - that is not an evidence of truth.  My life has gotten a ton better since I left Xtianity - why do YOU think THAT'S the case?

[bdp]

Dumbass said:

 

Maybe this website is simply a place of like minded commiseration where people congregate to reinforce their anti-Christ attitudes.

 

 

Maybe you're an asshole.  Oh, wait, no 'maybe' on that one...

[RipVanWinkle]

I have heard many, man, many testimonies of people who's lives improved with Christianity - including mine. The only place I hear of the reverse is hear. Now why do you think that's the case? OC

 

Your hear the reverse HEAR? Just pulling your leg. I make the same kind of mistakes myself.

 

But seriously, you always want to argue peripheral issues but ignore the critical ones. Like. how do you explain the horrible atrocities the biblical god visits on people according to the bible? How do you

reconcile them with there being a good god? And how do you explain the many conflicts in the bible?

Son't give me that shit about god being mysterious, which only means you can't possibly explain it. bill

[bdp]

 

"They are like children who sit in the market place and call to one another, and they say, 'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not weep.'

(Luk 7:32)

 

 

That quote is directed to religious people - it's an internal matter.  It has nothing to do with nonbelievers.

[bdp]

 

 We all know that we'll freaking die one day.  We all hate it. 

 

No, we don't ALL hate it.  I'm fine with it and welcome it, any day is fine with me.  I have no desire to live forever - death is natural, there's no point in hating, dreading, or fighting it.

[slave2six]

LMAO! I'm getting a kick from OC trying to diagnose Chris. 

 

Dude - if your god is real, he wouldn't need your help in reaching out to Chris, would he? That's the point of the OP. 

 

Come on! When are you going to stop believing in such a pathetic, impotent eternal being? Get real.

[bdp]

 

sandiego4me, on 10 Nov 2013 - 12:20 AM, said:

 

  There will never be an easy way to figure out God.  For the atheist, there is equally no easy way to figure how a universe could be created out of nothing.  

 

 

Figure OUT 'god'?  I'd settle for anyone SHOWING me 'god.'  As to how and why there's anything here or where it came from, it's irrelevant.  Knowing all that would change nothing.

[bdp]

 

 

 

4. As for original biblical sources, I have done a shit load of study on this topic.

 

 

So have I - I disagree with you completely.  But even if there were reliable first-hand texts of the NT it wouldn't make what's in them true any more than a first edition of Gone With the Wind would make Rhett Butler a real person.  Understand?

[slave2six]

 

 

 

A full life I believe would have been a life where jesus filled my emptiness to overflowing, this also was something jesus promised. As for my schizophrenia, that came after.

 

 

I sure feel for you.  My problem was depression.  Why didn't Jesus take away my depression?  I battled with it and prayed for decades.  It was so ironic how much my depression improved when I left religion.  And you are right about Jesus making a lot of promises in the Bible and none of them happened.

 

 

Christianity caused me to be perpetually depressed (and afraid and self-loathing). 

[slave2six]

great questions chrisstavrous...

 

I struggle with depression and anxiety, religion just made it worse. I'm much healthier and happier now.

 

My Great Uncle had schizophrenia (he was also an amazing man - he passed away a few years ago, I miss him), so I deeply empathize - it's a tough thing to deal with. Hopefully you are getting great medical care.

 

hugs!!

 

Sorry about your uncle. Schizophrenia is no laughing matter. But I think we can all agree that medication trumps faith every time. Let's look to the sciences to find an answer. "God" has had five thousand years to find one and hasn't yet.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

 

Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing.

 

1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself

 

2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good

 

3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels

 

4. There's no original biblical sorce that I can rely on

 

5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus?

 

6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach.

 

7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia

 

8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus

 

9. Faith is subjective

Regarding 6 ...

Why do you personally think this was not possible?

 

Regarding 7 ...

I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony?

 

 

Here we see an man putting forth in a clear and articulate manner the honest questions he has concerning the faith he once practiced.  We also see the "christian" response in OrdinaryClay immediately attacking what he views as the honest man's weaknesses.  Christians prey on weakness because they know their "arguments" cannont stand up to the strength of honesty, let alone logical scrutiny.  Let OrdinaryClay forever be remembered as a man who preyed upon the weaknesses of others instead of engaging in honest debate. 

 

 

"You will know them [True Christians] by their fruit"

 

The very words of Jesus; who mixed with sinners without condemning them, served the poor and needy, tended the sick and who had mercy and compassion on the weak - while the scripture-obsessed Pharisees sat in self-righteous judgement and had only scorn for those weaker than themselves.

 

Your last sentence cuts thru the crap and exposes the truth Prof.

 

BAA

 

 

That was my intention, BAA.  Left unchecked, I think Clay would have teased at Chris' "weaknesses" until he had the man maneuvered into a position where Clay could easily claim that the state of Chris' mental health was the reason for his doubts and disbeliefs.  Such a manipulator.  He even feigned compassion to gain trust, the sick bastard. 

[chrisstavrous]

I only left Christianity 7-9 months ago and I have noticed some improvement, but the improvement is not a forced change like it was when I was a christian. As to the question that peoples lives change once they become christian, I won't argue that happens, but don't all christians from all different types of sects and beliefs claim that their lives have mystically changed from above and further from that don't other religions say the same things about their gods.

 

As Richard Dawkins said "Some of us just go one god further "

[Justin]

 but don't all christians from all different types of sects and beliefs claim that their lives have mystically changed from above and further from that don't other religions say the same things about their gods.

 

As Richard Dawkins said "Some of us just go one god further "

 

I love how christians claim theirs is the one true faith and point to how their lives have changed as some sort of proof. All religions claim this and point to changes as one of the big reasons why their particular brand is the one true faith. They can't all be right.

 

I'm currently reading the Beatles Anthology and in it John Lennon speaks of a time when Acid mystically changed his life. I guess god goes by the initials of LSD.

[Astreja]

Yes, OC, you are indeed a predator.  I saw the way you preyed on Chris, and I was appalled by the rudeness and intrusiveness of your questions.  If this were My forum, I'd have kicked you out months ago.

 

And I just have this to say about your assertion that "I have heard many, many, many testimonies of people whose lives improved with Christianity - including mine."

 

It did not improve our lives.

 

If you can't respect that much, go away and don't ever come back here.

[slave2six]

Yes, OC, you are indeed a predator.  I saw the way you preyed on Chris, and I was appalled by the rudeness and intrusiveness of your questions.  If this were My forum, I'd have kicked you out months ago.

 

I have been impressed with the patience ("long-suffering") displayed by this community toward OC and other theists who come in here and try to kick us around. It shows a great deal of maturity and goodness for all involved.

[chrisstavrous]

 

 

Yes, OC, you are indeed a predator. I saw the way you preyed on Chris, and I was appalled by the rudeness and intrusiveness of your questions. If this were My forum, I'd have kicked you out months ago.

I have been impressed with the patience ("long-suffering") displayed by this community toward OC and other theists who come in here and try to kick us around. It shows a great deal of maturity and goodness for all involved.

But then in OrdinaryClay's mind all this maturity and goodness can't help us in the end. I don't mind OC asking me those questions, but my question to christians was to give me a reason to return to

god. So far I have not heard any reasons I can honestly think about, but its still early into the the discussion.

[chrisstavrous]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christians here are my reasons for leaving god, now if you can give me a good reason to return to god I will give it a fair hearing.

 

1. God did not heal me or help me heal myself

 

2. The god in the Bible does horrible things to people just for his own good

 

3. Science and the bible continue to conflict on many levels

 

4. There's no original biblical sorce that I can rely on

 

5. There's thousands and thousands of different christian faith's, which one is the right Jesus? my own version of jesus?

 

6. When I was a christian I was not looking for a reward (eternal life) all I ever wanted was to love god and be who god wanted me to be, but even that was impossible to reach.

 

7. Even after year's of being a christian I ended up in hospital for schizophrenia

 

8. I have never met a christian who even comes close to being like Jesus

 

9. Faith is subjective

Regarding 6 ...

Why do you personally think this was not possible?

 

Regarding 7 ...

I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Did you by chance post your testimony?

Here we see an man putting forth in a clear and articulate manner the honest questions he has concerning the faith he once practiced. We also see the "christian" response in OrdinaryClay immediately attacking what he views as the honest man's weaknesses. Christians prey on weakness because they know their "arguments" cannont stand up to the strength of honesty, let alone logical scrutiny. Let OrdinaryClay forever be remembered as a man who preyed upon the weaknesses of others instead of engaging in honest debate.

"You will know them [True Christians] by their fruit"

 

The very words of Jesus; who mixed with sinners without condemning them, served the poor and needy, tended the sick and who had mercy and compassion on the weak - while the scripture-obsessed Pharisees sat in self-righteous judgement and had only scorn for those weaker than themselves.

 

Your last sentence cuts thru the crap and exposes the truth Prof.

 

BAA

That was my intention, BAA. Left unchecked, I think Clay would have teased at Chris' "weaknesses" until he had the man maneuvered into a position where Clay could easily claim that the state of Chris' mental health was the reason for his doubts and disbeliefs. Such a manipulator. He even feigned compassion to gain trust, the sick bastard.

Actually I did have a christian friend who said that to me when my doubts plagued me day and night. He could not admit that christianity was my problem. (Alot of pain and misery back with those people )

[chrisstavrous]

Double post, please ignore.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Chris, I can relate completely to the pain and misery caused by the christian religion.  Although I have never been diagnosed with any particular mental ailment, I do know and can clearly recall a period in my christian life when I was losing my mind.  It was a horrendously dark period in my life because I was completely aware that I was going insane; I had conscious perception of my brain literally being fractured and broken.  I was sad because my mind has always been my greatest friend and ally.  The thought of losing it was deeply discomforting to me.  Fortunately, my mind was strong enough to recover; but it could have just as easily gone the other way.  It was an extremely close near-miss.  This episode has made me intensely sensitive to others whose minds have been broken by the christian religion.  It's a good sign that you can see OrdinaryClay for what he is and that you can respond to his attacks in an objective manner.