Need Some Help From Computer Geeks And Any Others Who Can Join In!

[Voice]

So- Voice--- are you saying that you believe that bar codes have 6's in them?  That this book is true?  Was this Mary Relfe's book back in the 80's???  I thought the beast in brussels was debunked?  I have to say, you did not encourage me to feel better about all of this. You make it sound like you think this stuff is true. 

 

I have read up on barcodes too-- and at no time have I found that anyone intentionally put 6's in the codes on purpose-- for play or otherwise.  More that there was a mix up from the first, middle and last guide lines looking like 6-- I think True Freedom provided a good link to debunk this.  I also read some informaiton from the guy who originally invented the UPC and he stated that he was dismayed by all of this junk about his poor barcode.

 

It could have been Mary Relfe, yes.  She was an authority on the subject at the time.  It may have been debunked, I hadn't heard, and I didn't look into it much further after reading it, it sounds like you have.  I just said I had no reason to disbelieve it.  I'm still gathering information about it, just not proactively.  You're convinced 6's weren't used as place holders in the code?  It wasn't about using something other than 1's and 0's to process bar codes, everything up until quantum computing uses 1's and 0's.  She showed that 6's were used as place holders to divide up the code.  

[miekko]

 

Not all computers have been binary though. Binary is just very convenient because you don't need to spend insane amounts of money on getting sufficient quality out of anything that might ever need to check what value a given unit has. (Just being careful about this so we don't start debunking clear bullshit with less-so-but-still-wrong bullshit.) Also, some modern memories store data with two bits per cell - basically, the cell can take any out of four different values, but when it's parsed by the hardware in it, it gets passed on as two separate bits rather than as one single four-bit.

 

I learn so much on this forum.

 

My favorite non-binary computer uses a number basis known as balanced ternary for signed integers. That is, although there are three different values, these are not 0,1,2 (normal ternary would make decimal '11' come out as '102' - 1*3^2+0*3^1+2*3^0 = 9+0+2 = 11) - they are -1,0,1, which is somewhat spooky. Using +,-, and 0 as symbols, we'd write 2 as 1*3^1 + -1*3^0, thus +-, whereas 4 is ++, 3 is +0, 1 is +, -3 is -0, -2 is -+, 5 is +-- (9-3-1), -5 is -++ (-9 + 3 + 1), etc.

[ShackledNoMore]

Kris, I am a software developer.

 

There are TWO places where a nutjob could accuse computer code of hiding the number 666: in source code, which are the human readable instructions that the programmer has written, or in the compiled code, which is a translation of the source code into a form that the computer can understand and execute efficiently (i.e., 1's and 0's).

 

Every language is going to have its own syntax and rules for its source code.  Within the constraints of the language, you can write whatever you want.  If you want to be gainfully employed, you will try to write "good" code which does what you intend.  Defining guidelines for "good" code would be a long and unrelated post, but it does NOT include deliberately tossing in any gratuitous 666's in homage to Old Nick.  In fact, cluttering your code with superfluous instances of the number 666 (or any other irrelevant, obfuscating crap, for that matter) would be considered an example of "bad" code.

 

Since each language has its own syntax for its source code, it would also be possible to require certain elements to write a program in a certain language.  In theory, there would be nothing to stop someone who develops a new language to require the programmer to add a header to each of his source files that reads "All Praise Satan, 666, Mwahaahaa!"  I cannot personally claim to have studied every programming language ever written and ruled out that there no language feature requiring a gratuitous reference to 666 in any of them, but I think it sounds awfully unlikely to me.  I can tell you I have never encountered anything like this and I think that it is safe to conclude that there are no such references in any common languages that people actually use.

 

On to the other place.  Since a compiler is just software that translates source code into the 1's and 0's useful to the computer, I suppose a given compiler could be written "badly" to generate output somehow deliberately branding itself with a binary representation the number 666 just for the hell of it (pun intended).  They don't.  The only representations of "666" or "616" you are going to see will be because it happened to be generated from the particular source code, or just an output artifact, just like a representation of "555" ot "777" would be.  "Bible Code" conspirator nut jobs might have a hey day here if they ever realized...

 

And bar codes: I've learned about several formats.  You can get a bar code reader for you phone.  The bar code contains whatever you encode.  You could deliberately encode "666" into a bar code just like you could deliberately write it in Arabic numerals.  A bar code does not hold a ton of data.  I've scanned/decoded them.  As you might expect, it turns out that nobody throws away, say, three digits of a twelve digit code just to pay homage to the devil.

 

Somebody's been lying for Jeebus, again, and doing it quite brazenly.

[Kris]

This was something that I found that debunks miss Mary Stewart Relfe;

 

Summary. Circulating on the Internet and elsewhere is the erroneous claim that every barcode in the Universal Product Code (UPC-A) has the number 666 embedded in it. A look at how the numbers in the UPC barcode are constructed will show why this claim is wrong.

 

How the error may have occurred. Someone glancing casually and a bit carelessly at a UPC barcode containing the number six will note that there are two thin vertical bars almost directly above the number six. Here, for example, is the barcode from a box of After Eight dinner mints. Note the two thin bars above the six in the 48600:

 

 

 

The casual glancer may therefore assume that the number six is represented by two thin vertical bars. Noticing that there are two thin vertical bars at each end of the barcode might then convince the glancer that these must be sixes also. The glancer then may finally note that in the confusing middle of the barcode there are also (at least) two thin vertical bars. Hence the hasty conclusion: the barcode pattern contains a six on each end and a six in the middle.(In this particular example, the little check digit six on the far right may also be confusing. But read on for clarification.)

 

Reading between the lines. By looking more carefully at a barcode, you can see that not only are the bars of different widths, but the spaces between the bars vary also. This is the key: each number in the barcode is represented not by two lines, but by four elements, which include two lines and two spaces. Further, if you look even more closely, you will see that for a given number (such as a six), what is a line on the right side of the barcode is a space on the left side and what is a space on the right side of the barcode is a line on the left side. (The different representations allow the barcode scanner to differentiate between the manufacturer's number and the item number even if the barcode is scanned upside down or sideways.) Here, for example, is the barcode from a Master Locks combination padlock:

 

 

 

Note that on the right there might appear to be two thin bars just above the six, but on the left, the pattern above the six looks like a thin bar and a very wide bar. What is actually there, however, are the four elements of the number six, represented on the right side of the barcode by a thin line, a thin space, a thin line, and a very wide space, and on the left side by a thin space, a thin bar, a thin space, and a very wide bar.

 

To make this even plainer, here is a barcode containing all sixes:

 

 

 

 

Note that the sixes on the right are all made up of a thin line, a thin space, a thin line, and a very wide space, and those on the left are made up of a thin space, a thin bar, a thin space, and a very wide bar.

 

Guarding the edge. The lines at each end of the barcode are guard bars, consisting of a thin line, a thin space, and a thin line. Since there are only three elements instead of four, no number of any kind is represented. (No very wide space or very wide bar is there to complete the number six, for example.)

 

And the middle. In between the first five numbers (which represent the manufacturer's identifying number--who made the product) and the last five numbers (which represent the specific product code--such as a blue, medium ball-point pen) is another set of guard bars, consisting of a thin space, a thin line, a thin space, a thin line, and a thin space. Here, even though there are five elements (two bars and three spaces), they do not represent a number because none of the numbers are made up of all thin elements (see below).

 

Breaking the code. Since the lines and spaces appear in four different widths, we could use the words thin, medium, wide, and very wide to represent them. We can also use numbers, though, with 1 representing thin, 2 representing medium, 3 representing wide, and 4 representing very wide. That plan allows us to represent each number this way:

 

0 is formed by alternating bars and spaces of width 3-2-1-1

1 is formed by alternating bars and spaces of width 2-2-2-1

2 is formed by alternating bars and spaces of width 2-1-2-2

3 is formed by alternating bars and spaces of width 1-4-1-1

4 is formed by alternating bars and spaces of width 1-1-3-2

5 is formed by alternating bars and spaces of width 1-2-3-1

6 is formed by alternating bars and spaces of width 1-1-1-4

7 is formed by alternating bars and spaces of width 1-3-1-2

8 is formed by alternating bars and spaces of width 1-2-1-3

9 is formed by alternating bars and spaces of width 3-1-1-2

An end guard bar is formed by two bars and a space 1-1-1

A middle guard bar is formed by two bars and three spaces 1-1-1-1-1

Putting it all together. Let's return to the padlock barcode, enlarged and detailed here. Note that the barcode contains two sixes, one on each side of the middle guard bars. As mentioned above, you can see the difference in representation of the same 1-1-1-4 code for a left-hand six, where the very wide segment is a bar instead of a space, and the right hand six, where the very wide segment is a space rather than a bar. Yet you are looking at the same number.

 

 

Note also that every bar and every space in the barcode is accounted for, and that there are no extra sixes anywhere to be found. (The first number, on the left next to the barcode, is the barcode type, such as a regular item, a coupon, etc., and the last number, on the right after the barcode, is a check digit, calculated from the barcode numbers and helping to insure accuracy of scanning. In both cases the numbers themselves are encoded inside the guard bars, making the barcode twelve digits overall.)

 

 

Further Issues About the Mark of the Beast, 666, Barcodes, and the Bible

 

Since the only information we have about the Mark of the Beast and the number 666 comes from the Bible, we should look at the Bible to see the context of these things. The Mark of the Beast is discussed in Revelation 13 and 14.

 

Who is the Beast? The Mark is ordered to be put on people by the False Prophet (the "second beast"), who serves the Antichrist (the "first beast"). The False Prophet is evidently a human being, not a system of commerce. So, who is this person? Before we say that barcodes are the Mark of the Beast, we should identify the Beast whose mark they supposedly are.

 

Are we in the Great Tribulation? The Mark of the Beast is not put on people until a little past halfway through the Great Tribulation, that is, more than three and a half years into the tribulation. Are we in such a tribulation now? In the first half of the tribulation, a third of mankind will be killed. Did this happen?

 

Did the World End? From the time of the Mark of the Beast until Armageddon, which pretty much ends the world, less than three and a half years pass. The UPC barcode has been around for twenty years.

 

Pre- Mid- or Post-trib? Of the three schools of interpretation for Revelation end times, pretribulationists and midtribulationists both believe that the church will be raptured before the beast and the false prophet arrive and put their mark on people. Only posttribulationists believe that Christians will be around during marking time. Thus, is you believe that the UPC barcode is the mark of the beast, you are a posttribulationist. Since most of the evangelical world is pretribulationist, what evidence do you provide to argue that you are correct and most other interpreters are wrong?

 

It's on You. The Mark of the Beast is clearly described as being either on the forehead or on the hand, not on commercial products. Explain this discrepancy.

 

Can we pick and choose the numbers? The Mark of the Beast is 666, but this barcode I'm looking at is 045342987531. If the guide bars are really sixes, then the number I'm looking at is 604534269875316. How is that the same as 666 any more than 16066 Jones Street is the same as 666? Just because we can pick three sixes out of a string of numbers, we cannot really say that those are the same as the single number 666.

 

Why the UPC and not another bar code? There are many barcode symbologies. In fact, the UPC may be on the way out, to be replaced by newer, more informatoin rich schemes such as the EPC. In the meantime, why should the UPC be singled out? Here are some of the other common barcodes:

 

2 of 5

3 of 9

Australia Post

Codabar

Code 11

Code 39 and extended (full ASCII) Code 39

Code 93

Code 128

Code B

Deutschen Post

EAN 8*

EAN13*

EAN 128

ISBN

ISSN

ITF-14

ITF-6

Interleaved 2 of 5

JAN*

Matrix 2 of 5

MSI (Modified Plessy)

Plessey

PostNet & FIM

Royal Mail 4 State

Swiss Post

Telepen (numeric and ASCII).

UPC-A*

UPC-E*

(* including 2 and 5 digit supplementaries)

 

 

 

For further reading:

http://www.barcodeisland.com/symbolgy.phtml

How UPC Barcodes Work

Barcode Server

Uniform Code Council ID Numbers and Bar Codes

Bar Codes (See how the lines and spaces represent seven-digit binary coded numbers.)

 

Other Articles Related to Religion

 

Epistemological Similarities Between Science and Christianity

Why Christians Should Examine All the Wares in the Marketplace of Ideas

Some Thoughts on Prayer

Bible Study Resources on the Web

[Kris]

For some reason, the images wouldn't print but check out this actual website:

 

www.virtualsalt.com/barcode.htm

[florduh]

If you prefer to treat symptom by symptom, 666 is the wrong goddam number anyway.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/revelation-666-is-not-the-number-of-the-beast-its-a-devilish-616-526779.html

[TrueFreedom]

So it was Caligula (616)...  I always thought that it referred to Nero (666).

[Kris]

Wow-- Florduh-- this may be the nail in the coffin for this stupid barcode theory!!  I suppose that when Mary Stewart Relfe wrote her diatribe on barcodes being 666, she had no fricken idea that there would be earlier manuscripts with 616 as the evil number. 

 

I should have remembered this little nugget as I had been reading up on the Nero theory and I think 616 is another version of this name spelled numerically (some scribe apparently changed this number based on the audience)-- and that is often used as a defense that the beast actually does refer to him. 

 

The good thing is that there is no possible way that the guard lines in barcodes could be 616!!  So F-YOU Mary Relfe!!

 

Dr. House-- thanks for giving me a good mind argument!! 

[florduh]

The doctor says, "You're welcome."

 

Now let's make Greg smile and we'll leave all this silly superstition behind, okay? You're too smart and have learned too much to fall for it any longer.

[Kris]

I know--- and you are right. I really am trying. I want to look forward to a cool technological future-- without all the scary thoughts!! I think that is the only reason why lingering fears pop up-- because things will be different in 50 years----maybe there will be chips in us to monitor health--- or our fingerprints or faces will be our ids. I hope that whoever comes up with this new stuff just makes sure that they avoid the right hand or forehead just so I don't have to worry anymore-- or hear weirdos like Mary Stewart Relfe anymore!!!

[mymistake]

I know--- and you are right. I really am trying. I want to look forward to a cool technological future-- without all the scary thoughts!! I think that is the only reason why lingering fears pop up-- because things will be different in 50 years----maybe there will be chips in us to monitor health--- or our fingerprints or faces will be our ids. I hope that whoever comes up with this new stuff just makes sure that they avoid the right hand or forehead just so I don't have to worry anymore-- or hear weirdos like Mary Stewart Relfe anymore!!!

 

Things will be different in 50 years.  The average lifespan will be longer.  We will be better at handling disease.  Infant mortality will be lower.  People's lives will be easier.  How do I know?  Because that is what happened in the last 50 years, and the 50 before that, and the 50 before that.  Science keeps making life better.  Religion has to hold onto the myth that life is getting worse.

[creative]

Ok, this is going to be a stupid post-- but I just want to help my poor little brain because I went out on the wild internet- and ended up finding more stupid stuff about the nefarious Mark of the Beast that I would like to clear up without worrying too much more about it.  I was checking out some bar code information because I had been having a conversation with someone as to how the barcode was not the MOTB.  I had read up on this in the past, but had gotten a bit rusty, so had to look it up.  Of course, that brought up a plethora of crazy stuff.  Most of it centered around microchips and how they would have the bar code in them-- therefore they would have 666 right there in them-- and then they would be in us.  I don't think that the barcode even has 666 on it-- it have seen the various explanations and it seems like the first, center and last guide lines don't have any number associated with them, and the number 6 is actually quite a different bunch of lines altogehter. 

 

However, some fool was on one site going on and on about how computer code starts with 666-- not sure what he means by that.  But, he said that if any type of system has computers involved, that it would be of the devil. Can any programmers help me out with this?  I would not think that all programs start with 666-- but I figured anyone who works with computers alot could help me out.  I would also like to know a bit more about barcodes in general.  It seems that a lot of barcodes are different than just the UPC code. RFID uses an EPC code-- can anyone help me out with this at all?  I would assume that this type of code is what is used in the tags that go into dogs and cats-- and perhaps someday humans. 

 

I saw a few random things where someone tried to say that people were marked in Sweden with mark in their hands but it appeared to come out of an old book by some conspiracy theorist, so it likely wasn't true.  I did click to see if I could find anything and the only thing I could find was that Sweden was moving away from cash and more to relying on credit cards (not chips in hands that I could see!). 

 

I would really just like to debunk the thought that these types of things have any relation to 666.  Interestingly enough, some manuscripts have the MOTB as 616-- so not sure if it really matters anyway-- but I would like to argue back that computer code does not have anything to do with 666, and that a barcode in an RFID chip is not even the same as the UPC  code so even if one was stupid enough to believe that the UPC code DID have 666-- that is not what the RFID code would be.

 

I just would like anyone who is willing to give me a down and dirty lesson as to why I don't have to worry about technology-- and that it is a friend and not an enemy!!

 

I really need to quit going out on the web-- too much weird stuff!!

If you look long enough for things you will find them. 331593 could also be 666 (3+3, 1+5, 9-3 = 6,6,6). You can get 666 from everything if you mess with numbers. As well as 111, 222, 333 etc.

 

Computers work on binary code 010110101101 there is not even a number 6 there.

But sure 11111101111110111111 = 666

Programming languages don't work with number. The work with variables, integers, commands functions etc.

If(crazy_christian == TRUE){

    print "You are a crazy christian :P";

}else{

   print "You are not a crazy christian =)";

}

[Kris]

Ok thanks. I was doing really good and then fir some reason RFID implants came up---- some guy implanted something into his arm and that made the news. Of course the loonies talked about how this is leading to mandatory implants and that this was the end---- of course due to all the other signs out there. And that the chips would have barcodes which have 666 in them. That is what starred the whole thing. Implsnts seem to pop up more and more--- I am really trying to technically debunk my fears about them as it does seem that myself or my kids my be running around with chipsin them-- even possibly in their hand. (Not sure which one-- but probably not the firehead!) I just don't want to be afraid of the technology and want to erase the 666 rumors, etc

[creative]

To be honest i wouldn't want to be implanted with a chip. Especially not in a world where country's are ruled by corporations who don't stop at anything to gain power and control.
Eventually they will convince the government and the people to get there kids implanted (using a little brainwashing and fear) and force it on you... with stupid laws like your kids cant go to school without a chip.

Regardless of what you believe, monopolies and mega corporations can be extremely hazardous to the word.
There are plenty of examples, for example laws on seeds.

[Voice]

Ok thanks. I was doing really good and then fir some reason RFID implants came up---- some guy implanted something into his arm and that made the news. Of course the loonies talked about how this is leading to mandatory implants and that this was the end---- of course due to all the other signs out there. And that the chips would have barcodes which have 666 in them. That is what starred the whole thing. Implsnts seem to pop up more and more--- I am really trying to technically debunk my fears about them as it does seem that myself or my kids my be running around with chipsin them-- even possibly in their hand. (Not sure which one-- but probably not the firehead!) I just don't want to be afraid of the technology and want to erase the 666 rumors, etc

Based on all the information you posted up after my other posts, Kris, I'd say it sounds like you have a grip on it. You can look up how all of those various bar code systems are assembled and see for yourself.

The rest is presently dystopian, B science fiction guaranteed to make at least a few million at the box office.

 

Chips can be implanted all we want, and with bar codes. We have to ask, what are we using them for? The writing that has everyone upset says it's about allowing people to buy and sell. Are they using them for that? It doesn't sound like it. It sounds like they're using them for medical purposes.

[Kris]

Thanks Voice-- like I said, I am really trying to allay my fears. And yes, from what I can tell, most applicaitons for internal microchips are for medical purposes. But I can see that if RFID takes off, there may be many more applications-- having one in you to turn on your phone or computer (no need for passwords) or even to keep a pod of information about you, so you can do banking transactions, etc. From a non-dystopian point of view, this seems like a pretty good thing. You don't have to carry so much around-- and crime would be reduced (hackers would electronically steal of course,so you could never fully get rid of that. Some of it seems like pretty neat stuff.

 

However, even though I am out of church and don't even believe in god-- I still struggle when there is talk of these things because the indoctrination was so intrenched in me that this was the very type of thing the beast would use. He would be able to control basically everybody (althought that could be done today by freezing bank assets, getting people fired, wiretapping, etc.) and we are all a part of the SSN Beast system, right? So, the only other part of this that makes it bad is that it could go into your body. I do think that the endtimers follow the latest technology and try to tie it in with the latest things that are going on in the world. I am sure that Mary Relfe has moved on from saying that barcodes will be tattoed on us to chips being implanted in us-- but she also said that god came to her in a dream and that the end of the world would be in 1997 or so-- so she sucks in her predictions. But others follow this trend too-- Hal Lindsey and a whole host of other weirdos out there.

 

I just want to know that if anything like this becomes reality, I can try to look at it in a new light. Yes, some corporations could use this type of power for evil, but it could also be used for good--as I said, less crime, our lives could be enriched by the ability to use things like computers, atms, cars, our own homes more efficiently because we now can "connect" to them through technology. Our lives could be made easier and as stated earlier-- we could live longer.

 

I just don't want it to be evil as is portrayed. If this ever takes off, I really hope that those companies involved see the religious hysteria that could ensue if they recommend a chip in the right hand or forehead. I would think that they would find another location that would negate the obvious ties to Revelation-- just for business purposes. That is is for me. I suppose that even if a chip ended up going into the right hand of someone, as long as there is no meglamaniac claiming to be god that is forcing the chip-- it still wouldn't fit Revelation. And as Overcame Faith stated in his Top 10 Reasons thread-- a microchip does not appear to be a mark. I have seen chips being removed from hands in a youtube video, so I know that they can be taken out-- not sure you can remove the MOTB according to the bible.

 

I am just sick of the f**kers out there on the web who keep putting out stuff to make eveything seem so evil and sinister. Even through I try to fight it by saying I don't believe in god, this still gets to me.

 

Anyway, I know this is a rambler, but I am really trying to explain why I keep coming back to this-- it is the old crap that has been preached in my church for years-- looking like it might actually come to fruition some day. They of course, were not prophets--they simply spotted trends--but they twist it to make it diabolical. Now, years later when I see some of the stuff that they talked about as possiblities, I have to work even harder to dismiss them. Overcame helped me religiously in his thread by breaking down scriptures-- but I am also looking for the techno ways to show how this isn't the end for all of us. Anyway, thanks for listening to a crazy atheist still afraid of the endtimes. Isn't that an oxymoron (or just a moron!)?

[ExCBooster]

Kris, technically, humanity's never had it this good.

 

Life expectancies and standards of living are way, way up, continuing a trend for the last 300 years. We no longer get horrible, horrible diseases, just as a matter of course. Smallpox used to be completely mundane, and one of the leading causes of blindness, now, it's extinct. We're closing in on polio, too. And guinea worms. Overall violence is actually down, all things considered. You don't live in a society where entertainment is literally watching a pack of slavering dogs chew on a bull. We call a child dying before five a tragedy, rather than a fact of life. Our water is safe to drink, and not all full of cholera. I can own property, ofmy own, and earn money. I can vote. Baby-farming (read: infanticide for fun and profit) is no longer a thing. Slavery is out, at least legally.

 

If these things sound like exaggerations, or like I'm describing some kind of inconceivable hell-hole, I'm describing my own society, about 150 years ago. I'm a modern person, I've been vaccinated, I love science, human feet have walked on the freakin' Moon, and I like my violence for entertainment fake, thank you. People today complain about fake violence. You see, it used to be real. (A fossil of this is that there are a lot of breeds of dog, today, descended from breeds specialized for blood sport, not just the pit bull - from foxhounds to terriers.)

 

Edit: fixed spelling, added Black Ops 2 link.

[Kris]

Yes.  I know that things should be perceived as being better--and that is where i want to get to-- but it isn't easy when as I have mentioned-- anytime somebody does something radical-- like invent a microchip that can be placed inside of a body to monitor glucose and possibly save the life of a diabetic and it shows up in an article in my fox news feed, that someone will comment on how this is the beginning of the Mark.  Or when an artist puts a chip in his hand that when held up to a computer, creates designs on the screen-- he took the mark, and the rest of us will be forced to shortly as well.  Or if a chip can be put in your body to store records, it then could progress to buying and selling with the use of the chip-- oh dear,  here we are again.  This is just one example.  There have been electronic tattoos that can be placed on skin to help determine heart rates, etc.-- all of this is for good purposes.  I don't honestly beleive that any of these developers have satan leering over them filling their minds with diabolical plots. 

 

I honestly am a geek at heart and used to love technology.  Even though some are opposed to chips in humans because they feel that they can be tracked by governments or evil companies, that never really bothered me.  I just don't want to hear that I am taking the MOTB-- because my old conditioning makes that such a terrifying concept. I really don't want one in my hand, but I would put one in my arm.  And, because I don't really do much law-breaking, I don't really have anything to hide-- so there might be some cool aspects to a chip, such as not having to carry a purse, etc.  So, to me the chip isn't bad.  It is what people say about the chip that makes it bad.  Just like the poor barcode--someone sees 6's in the guard bars, and this thing is now of the devil.

 

Look,  I just want to mind my own business and have a happy life.  I want my kids to have a happy life.  And I just found out that my daughter is expecting my first grandchild, so I want that little one to be able to grow up not worrying about chips and barcodes or any of this shit.  But it is not a far stretch to think that if not in our generation-- perhaps in my daughters or grandchilds life that humans may have chips, or tattoos or some sort of identifier to communicate with computers more directly-- and I just don't want to be afraid of that.  I want to know that if I end up putting a chip in my right hand, that this doesn't damn me to a hell that I don't even believe in!!  That is it!

[Kris]

Ok-- I am really not trying to be a poop here, but really want help on not worrying about issues related to microchips.  Just last night, I was looking over some science and tech sites because I have a great interest in these areas, and unfortunately, what pops up, but an article on how a start up group of self-described hackers now want source funding for a company they are forming called "Dangerous Things"-- in which they want to market NFC Chips and applicators that people can take to their doctor or even tattoo/piercing artist to put in their hands-- in the video I watched, it appeared to be mostly people really into computers and body modification that were interested in this-- and people were shown putting chips in both their left and right hands.  They then use the chips to open and close doors, unlock their phones, computers, and cars, and other things.  Amal Graffstra appears to the be figurehead for this group, and he has been on the web for a long time as the guy who has microchips in both hands-- He seems like a pretty cool guy in his videos and doesn't think that this type of thing is in any way evil.  I sure would like to support his view point-- but even he acknowleges that people have sent him nasty emails stating he was doing the devils work and would be going to hell, etc.

 

This just doesn't seem to be something that I can just continue to ignore and pretend will never happen-- it does seem that eventually there may be a market for this type of thing.  I am trying so hard not to fall back on what the christians say about these types of chips-- one article that I had seen right here on this site (under the top ten reasons not to fear end times) is that some christians state that the chips would have 3 sets of 6 numbers-- the first was your DOB.  I think that this could be easily debunked, as when this was originally thought up, it was in the mid to late 1900 century, and the endtimers never thought we would make it to the 2000's-- now that people are living longer, you really need 8 digits to show DOB-- MM/DD/YYYY as opposed to just MM/DD/YY in their scenario.  The other six digit numbers were regional location and your own special number-- all sounds made up, and I can pretty much disregard this info-- but what information might be on these NFC chips-- or RFID chips?  Is there any type of standard coding?  I looked at what is put into dogs and cats, and it appears that they use 14 or 16 digit identifier numbers.

 

I guess the whole thing for me is that it doesn't appear that the possibiliity of people having some sort of electronic identifier is out of the picture.  I would prefer that if this was the case, that whatever company is promoting it would pick locations other than the hands-- but this doesn't look like it necessarily would be the case-- we use our hands for a lot, and if these chips are used to help with locking and unlocking of guns, phones, etc-- the hand seems like a logical place.  I also have stated earlier that it appears that these chips could be removed-- and I would not imagine that something that could send you to hell such as a Mark of the Beast could be so easily removed even by the person by simply cutting it out.  Also, it did not appear that these implants caused any type of permanent scarring that would be noticable.

 

it does appear that this company is in the really early stages of showing how NFC can be used-- and since it seems to be mostly computer people who are doing this type of thing-- they are also having to develop the components on the doors, computers, etc, so that the chip can communicate with the object.  There is not a ton of NFC stuff out in the world right now since it is a relatively new technology.  However, I do know that NFC is something that is going into a lot of phones so that someday we might be able to use our phones as credit cards.  I actually think that this is a better way to go than using a chip in your hand as you can store a lot of info on your phone.   I also think biometrics are super cool and

 

Lastly, I would think that if this ever gets off the ground, I would think that a number of christians would balk at having to put anything into their right hand (not sure how they would feel about the left!) so companies would need to accomodate that--unless of course the Antichrist is now on the scene and demanding we take these damn chips in his name ala Left Behind!!

 

Now, these chips might proliferate and yet no antichrist shows up-- that would be pretty good evidence that the chips have nothing to do with the bible stories that they always seem to get tied to.

 

Sorry people, I really want to embrace future technology-- and would love to be able to do it with out fear.  Whenever I bring this subject up, it seems like I am just told to not worry or to dismiss my old fears.  I think there is a strong possibility that people will be walking around with chips, electronic tattoos, and all kinds other things in their body within the next 20-30 years-- so how can I assure myself that these are not evil-- and what do you all think about this?

[florduh]

I think there is a strong possibility that people will be walking around with chips, electronic tattoos, and all kinds other things in their body within the next 20-30 years-- so how can I assure myself that these are not evil-- and what do you all think about this?

 

Why would that be "evil?" There is no basis whatsoever for this assumption. Indoctrination, or brainwashing, has distorted reality for you. Please get help for the root problem, irrational fear or phobia. You will always be able to find something to fear as long as you're in this condition. Flailing away at the symptoms isn't helping.

[mymistake]

At it's core this is looking for Bible prophesy in modern events.  But Bible prophesy proved wrong 1900 years ago.  The Gospel of Mark said Jesus would come back in that generation.  Jesus didn't come back.  So then they had to write the Gospel of Luke and the Gospel of Matthew to explain what the prophecy in Mark failed.  Both Luke and Matthew were failures so somebody had to write the Gospel of John to explain why the other Gospels had failed.  By that time the prophesy of Revelation had failed as well.  All of that was suppose to be fulfilled back in the first century, you know during the last days - the end times.  And if time ended almost two thousand years ago then what have we been doing since?  Two thousand years from now still there will be no anti-christ, no fulfillment of Bible prophesy.  Hopefully the religion will have died out by then and it will be like worshiping Zeus.

[Kris]

Florduh-- I am not really sure how to resolve my root problem. I am trying so hard. I just seem to flounder at times. I don't even really feel like I believe in Revelation but then when something pops up that Christians can say ties to what it says--- I don't laugh it off very easily. I think I am still going through the "what if I am wrong stage". I tell myself not to worry-- but I still do. I know it is annoying when people like me keep dwelling on things like this-- but this and a few other issues were big fundamentalism teachings. I could ignore this for a long time but now that it looks like microchip ping could happen down the road-- I just want to get over this fear. There is a part if me who just wants to order a damn chip and implant it in my hand and be done with the whole thing!! As it stands right now, I am already he'll bound and may even have the "mark of the beast" because I deny god in my mind and works--- is that getting to the root?

[florduh]

As it stands right now, I am already he'll bound and may even have the "mark of the beast" because I deny god in my mind and works--- is that getting to the root?

 

 Hardly. The root is in human psychology, and the problem of phobias and irrational fear in general should be addressed. I say this because as we dispel the specific fears myth by myth, no progress is made. I just think from what I've seen some therapy is in order if you are ever to stop looking for and finding fear triggers.

 

I'm not trying to be mean or dismissive. I want you to be free of religious guilt and fear and I see we're not getting anywhere by debunking the religion of fear point by point; that approach will obviously never end.

[mymistake]

Florduh-- I am not really sure how to resolve my root problem. I am trying so hard. I just seem to flounder at times. I don't even really feel like I believe in Revelation but then when something pops up that Christians can say ties to what it says--- I don't laugh it off very easily. I think I am still going through the "what if I am wrong stage". I tell myself not to worry-- but I still do. I know it is annoying when people like me keep dwelling on things like this-- but this and a few other issues were big fundamentalism teachings. I could ignore this for a long time but now that it looks like microchip ping could happen down the road-- I just want to get over this fear. There is a part if me who just wants to order a damn chip and implant it in my hand and be done with the whole thing!! As it stands right now, I am already he'll bound and may even have the "mark of the beast" because I deny god in my mind and works--- is that getting to the root?

 

Revelation never prophesied that there would be microchips.  Pastors and priests have lied about the prophesy of Revelation because they make money off the scam.

 

You should look into cold readings so that you can learn how these scam artists work.

 

 

Bible prophecy was just vague words that play on the same tricks as cold readings.

[Ravenstar]

STOP looking at any sites that have anything to do with religion... or if you do check out Michael Shermer

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta1Jph6tYqA

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxg21F_I5U0