Super Moderator florduh Posted September 27, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted September 27, 2013 Even Ex-Christians have theological opinions, but doctrinal debates belong among the believers. Speaking for myself and several others I'm aware of, we aren't interested any longer in the "my verse is more relevant than your verse" doctrinal arguments. Most of us have already exhausted the endless debates regarding tongues, tribulation, Calvinism, etc. We might as well discuss the deeper meanings to be gleaned and supported by the text regarding Star Wars or the Wizard of Oz. Some do just like to argue, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 "And I noticed that a lot of people here have an issue with God because of His morality." JordonRiver Almost always Xtians make the same mistake in their arguments to support "god". Like in the above quote: "An issue with God". The point is there is no bible god. I don't have an issue with a mythical deity that does not now and never did exist. So if you really want to take issue with us exXtians, start with the real issue. Everything else is bullshit unless if you can't show us that there is a biblical god. bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerk Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 "And I noticed that a lot of people here have an issue with God because of His morality." JordonRiver Almost always Xtians make the same mistake in their arguments to support "god". Like in the above quote: "An issue with God". The point is there is no bible god. I don't have an issue with a mythical deity that does not now and never did exist. So if you really want to take issue with us exXtians, start with the real issue. Everything else is bullshit unless if you can't show us that there is a biblical god. bill Right. Pointing out the problems with the god of the Old Testament is not "having a problem" with it, it's simply a way to demonstrate to the believer that they don't understand what they think they believe in, and that the god they think is real doesn't actually make any sense. They say their god is loving, yet their own book paints it as a horrible, immoral narcissist. It's proof that the god is made up by people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernweh Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Dead is dead. There's nothing from which to be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Original sin is the doctrine that makes 'salvation' work, it's a ridiculous concept and to believe it you have to believe in Adam and Eve.. Bwahahahahahaha...no. so nothing to be saved from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Original sin is the doctrine that makes 'salvation' work, it's a ridiculous concept and to believe it you have to believe in Adam and Eve.. Bwahahahahahaha...no. so nothing to be saved from. The moment that I realized that the whole "salvation" thing was exactly like a doctor poisoning their patients and then curing them to look like a hero, the whole faith thing sort of crumbled like a brick wall being hit by a wrecking ball. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExXex Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 What if the god of the Bible does exist, but is actually the Demon King, who crawled up out of Hell, and pretended to be a god for thousands of years? Maybe the real god is going to send everyone who worships Yahweh to Hell. That would mean that all of the Christians, the Muslims, and the Jews that still practice Judaism are doomed to an eternity of being raped by the Demon King! Oooh what if Yahweh is on trial by the divine entities collective and the bible is actually.. HIS CONFESSION. Oh oh and we're all the jury without knowing it, Christians say 'not guilty' others say 'guilty' and when we die our votes are cast The pastors are the defence lawyers Fun to think about haha. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miekko Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 God= √-1 No, since √-1 actually is useful. (See, e.g. how it's used with regards to phase in electrical engineering). In many reasonable ways, we can say √-1 actually exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Sooo...ummm what if, and I do mean IF, the concept of ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED is true? What if every X-Christian is still going to be saved. Then the question would naturally be what are you hoping to accomplish? Save them? Save them from the salvation they already have? Are you the devil? Maybe you're not saved and are here seeking for those who are saved to help you find salvation? How may we help you? What sins do you wish to confess? Your arrogance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JordanRiver Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I am not arrogant....just confident in Him. I actually used to have low self-esteem but I gave it to Jesus and now I am more confident in Him. Thank you for noticing. One time I was getting prayed for, and the people praying over me said God wants to take away your low self-esteem and help you receive His confidence. And so I did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I am not arrogant....just confident in Him. I actually used to have low self-esteem but I gave it to Jesus and now I am more confident in Him. Thank you for noticing. One time I was getting prayed for, and the people praying over me said God wants to take away your low self-esteem and help you receive His confidence. And so I did I have my own confidence. It overrides any confidence provided by God or Jesus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 One time I was getting prayed for, and the people praying over me said God wants to take away your low self-esteem and help you receive His confidence. And so I did I believe that is what is called the Placebo effect. You believe that a god is taking away your self-esteem and suddenly you become more confident. Now if only you could have prayed for all children to be cured of the diseases they were born with or became sick with at very young ages, all at once! Now, if the prayer was answered with a yes and the curing happened instantly, that would convince me more than ever to believe in your god and possibly worship him too, because maybe, just maybe, he's become less of a dick than he was in the Bible. If the children don't become cured all at once and one or two of them die, then I'll give credit for the curing to the doctors who clearly worked hard to make it happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Popular Post buffettphan Posted September 28, 2013 Super Moderator Popular Post Share Posted September 28, 2013 THE one and only common element among all christians I've ever met in my 50+ years of life: (and JordanRiver is no exception) "It's all about meeeeeeeeeeeee!" (Expressed in various ways of course ---- I am saved. Jesus loves me. I am blessed. I have been given a miracle. God healed me. God put it in my heart to pray for you. Jesus wants me as his wife. It's raining and I got a parking spot close to the door at Walmart. I am so frigging speshul.... etc etc etc ad nauseam) 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I am not arrogant....just confident in Him. I actually used to have low self-esteem but I gave it to Jesus and now I am more confident in Him. Thank you for noticing. One time I was getting prayed for, and the people praying over me said God wants to take away your low self-esteem and help you receive His confidence. And so I did Actually when you become an ex-Christian you still get to keep all the mystic tricks you learned as a Christian. I can speak in tongues. I can call upon the Peace That Passes All Understanding. Works just as good now as it did as a believer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 THE one and only common element among all christians I've ever met in my 50+ years of life: (and JordanRiver is no exception) "It's all about meeeeeeeeeeeee!" (Expressed in various ways of course ---- I am saved. Jesus loves me. I am blessed. I have been given a miracle. God healed me. God put it in my heart to pray for you. Jesus wants me as his wife. It's raining and I got a parking spot close to the door at Walmart. I am so frigging speshul.... etc etc etc ad nauseam) Heh, and I said I'd stay away from this thread. I suppose it doesn't count if I'm talking to serious posters. Not that I consider it a virtue, but I will say that Reformed Evangelicals (i.e. Calvinists) tend not to take this approach. I know many Christians who emphasize the transcendent glory of God/Jesus, and their own salvation is an afterthought. These Christians are probably more dangerous, because in their own minds they have just cause to condemn the rest of us to hell. At least a Christian who believes that "it's all about me," can be reasoned with. I can explain to such a person that my religion gives me just as much peace or joy as evangelical Christianity gives them. But a Calvinist Christian takes the traditional doctrines of Christianity to their logical extreme, and it is from such people that heretic burnings and state churches come. Selfish Christians are the least of our problems. It's the Christians who actually believe in the New Testament that worry me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Some do just like to argue, though. Eh, the old timers like to sharpen their claws sometimes, the newbies like to see their doubts shot down in flames, and BO gets a few days without being the chief prick. And the nut bags tend to get the most replies and views. All 'round win, except possibly OD'ing on stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I am not arrogant....just confident in Him. I actually used to have low self-esteem but I gave it to Jesus and now I am more confident in Him. Thank you for noticing. One time I was getting prayed for, and the people praying over me said God wants to take away your low self-esteem and help you receive His confidence. And so I did It's a start, but typically those dealing with self-esteem issues overcompensate by going to the other extreme, which is actually not dealing with the underlying issue which is a lack of self love. I'm just saying, don't be so certain that this "confidence" you have isn't just a compensation, and the root causes have actually been addressed. It's too easy to want to believe God just fixes things instantly. In other words, don't stop looking. Answers aren't something that just suddenly are handed to you in a miracle. It's a start, but not the end by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JordanRiver Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I am not arrogant....just confident in Him. I actually used to have low self-esteem but I gave it to Jesus and now I am more confident in Him. Thank you for noticing. One time I was getting prayed for, and the people praying over me said God wants to take away your low self-esteem and help you receive His confidence. And so I did It's a start, but typically those dealing with self-esteem issues overcompensate by going to the other extreme, which is actually not dealing with the underlying issue which is a lack of self love. I'm just saying, don't be so certain that this "confidence" you have isn't just a compensation, and the root causes have actually been addressed. It's too easy to want to believe God just fixes things instantly. In other words, don't stop looking. Answers aren't something that just suddenly are handed to you in a miracle. It's a start, but not the end by any means. That is your opinion and I respect it. I have my own way of doing things...I am not overcompensating. Try not to be my "guidance counselor" I only follow Jesus. Your advice was good...maybe .even above good But I found the answer I was looking for in Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Fine, so why are you here telling us about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 ^^^ What Thurisaz said. It should be obvious by now that we aren't interested in returning to Christianity. Do you see us as some sort of challenge, perchance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUnknown Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 THE one and only common element among all christians I've ever met in my 50+ years of life: (and JordanRiver is no exception) "It's all about meeeeeeeeeeeee!" (Expressed in various ways of course ---- I am saved. Jesus loves me. I am blessed. I have been given a miracle. God healed me. God put it in my heart to pray for you. Jesus wants me as his wife. It's raining and I got a parking spot close to the door at Walmart. I am so frigging speshul.... etc etc etc ad nauseam) When I investigated Christianity, I couldn't help but see this either. Christianity posits itself as a caring and loving religion but it's mainly selfish to the core. This picture below compliments what you're saying perfectly. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I am not arrogant....just confident in Him. I actually used to have low self-esteem but I gave it to Jesus and now I am more confident in Him. Thank you for noticing. One time I was getting prayed for, and the people praying over me said God wants to take away your low self-esteem and help you receive His confidence. And so I did The thing with christians is, they tell you what they think you want to hear. Biggest liars EVER. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 That is your opinion and I respect it.It is an opinion based on years of experience. Hopefully others experiences can offer insights to you if you are willing to listen to them. I have my own way of doing things...I am not overcompensating.You stated that you suddenly went from low self-esteem to instant confidence once you found Jesus. Even with religious experiences you still have hard work to do, and that takes time and deep personal effort. Again, speaking from personal experience. If you've done that, then you're on your way. If not, I'd be careful to believe you've actually dealt with the root causes in your life yet, Jesus or not. Try not to be my "guidance counselor"You've come to offer advise here from the goodness of your heart. Can't I offer you advise as well from mine? I only follow Jesus.I have nothing against you finding value in your chosen religious figure. I don't doubt it offers much to you on your path. But why should you believe that this means you're not supposed to pay attention to what others have to offer? Maybe you not doing so, is an act of 'not-following Jesus'. Maybe Jesus guided you here to gain some insights from those who have more experience than you do. Truth comes from the darnedest places sometimes. Your advice was good...maybe .even above good But I found the answer I was looking for in Jesus. So you're at the end of your path? You've arrived? No more growing? Doesn't that sound a bit more like escapism, than salvation? Maybe you are still holding back from beginning that path? I'm just going to add here, ironically you start a topic with the question that people here who identify as ExChristian may actually still be 'saved'. Perhaps you intuited that our given paths offer us a deeper insight than you've been getting from the easy-answers, easy-fix crowd's teachings. You'd be mostly right in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolaida Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Yes, I was taught and believed in the idea of "once saved, always saved." The churches went to, my parents and my teachers all taught this doctrine that you couldn't be "unsaved" once you were saved. I had an aunt who became "unsaved" and when I asked my mom about it, she said that she had never truly accepted Jesus in her heart. Well, I figured I had no worries since I had definitely accepted Jesus in my heart. But it did always bother me because I'd found some letters from my aunt she'd written to my parents nearly ten years before and she sounded every bit like a "strong Christian." At any rate, once you de-convert, your frame of mind changes completely (probably different levels of severity depending on how "deep" you were into it). You realize you can't be "unsaved" because you were never "saved" because there was never anything for you to be saved from. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 You're right, kolaida. The concept of being "saved" is an illusion, just as the biblical god is and illusion. JordonRiver says: Try not to be my "guidance counselor" Good gawd, she wants to tell everybody what they ought to believe and how they should behave, but thinks Antlerman overstepped his/her bounds by giving her some common sense advice. That's not self centered? Imagine JordonRiver believes that god chose only her and people who believe like her to go to heaven, to the exclusion of every living soul and every soul that ever lived , who constitute the overwhelming majority of all people god "created". Nothing narcissistic about that, is there? bill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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