Akheia Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 No, but they're awfully cute. I have a tiny little tuxedo cat who sneezes like the tuxedo cat in the video's thumbnail pic (except her nose is button-black, not pink, and her chin is black too, all of which is just amazingly cute to me). Her pure-white littermate brother is 25 pounds of neurotic, snores like whoa, and nobody sensible wants to be around when he unloads with a sneeze. They both kind of snort sometimes when they purr, and so did their mama, so I'm wondering if it's taught or genetic or what, because I've never heard a cat do it before them. Sounds a bit like what you're describing I'm very charmed by stories of couples who are their respective only lovers. Doesn't happen often though. Couples who manage to stay together like that are probably more rare than black-nosed tuxedo cats. Sooner or later someone's going to figure out what they're not getting, and at that point there is going to be a come-to-jesus moment that hopefully will resolve with mutual growth instead of growing-apart. I remember hearing some advice columnist who actually advocated giving 15-year-old girls Hitachi Magic Wands for their birthdays so they knew what sex was supposed to accomplish before their first fumbling attempts at it, but for some wacky reason that never quite took off. Virginity is a fine and wonderful thing if that's what the people who value it want to do. I'm totally happy for them and wish 'em well. I just know how rare it is that things match up with idealism. The solution is not to double down on idealism but to see how it can better match up with reality. I'm probably thinking about it a bit more though because I was on lamebook.com earlier and the number of posts from Christian girls lambasting others' morality when they have out-of-wedlock babies was getting me down. I feel like this whole purity thing is trying to do exactly that, drill down on idealism, rather than working with human reality in a compassionate and understanding way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 The purity BS is probably a hold over from the pre-contraception days. The sowing of wild oats for a male is less consequential than for females and as we see in many societies, women bear the brunt of birth control, be it abstinence or the now BC methods available. Not only do women have to worship the penis, they have to have reverence for their vaginas too. When you add all this shit into the mix, it is not difficult to see just how obsessed religion has become with sex. There if nothing special about the first time and it is like men are told to masturbate on their wedding day so as to last a bit longer as women take longer to orgasm. I really see no need to only have to cross this bridge on the wedding night. I guess there are women that give birth w/o experiencing a real partner orgasm and only get around to subtly guiding the man as to what works for her later in life. I think most males have had experiences of premature ejaculation as young lads. Then you also have the inverse where you cannot orgasm no matter how hard you concentrate and then perhaps the woman feels there is something wrong with her. Both have happened to me. Human sexuality is complex and one thing my wife and I did, we watched some porn together. It helped a tad but that, we all know is not reality. For a male, seeing porn will get the juices flowing and a woody but what it does for women, well that depends on how she was raised. We also bought a "how to" book and all of this was to find the ultimate in lovemaking; even with all my experience, there was still knowledge lacking. Understanding each other's needs/bodies is stuff that should be well known long before babies are planned. This worked for us as we were married 3 years with 2 years prior shacking up before mutually deciding on starting a family and she conceived both kids the same month she stopped the pill. Getting pregnant should not be a surprise, not in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I think you're right about contraception/accidental pregnancy being a big part of why girls are discouraged from experimentation. The problem is that abstinence doesn't work. We know it doesn't. So as you and I both found out, it's a lot better to work with reality than to insist on idealism. Fundies however don't function in reality but in the gauzy idealistic world they've created for themselves. In that idealistic world, when the guy is done, the woman's done too, so obvs he has to last as long as possssssssible to give her half a chance of getting there. Phooey on that! There's nothing magical about a man's orgasm that says that once he has one the entire festival is over and everybody has to go home. What bugs me here is that fundies encourage these lightning courtships and whirlwind engagements, get the couple married ASAP, and giggle when the bride "forgets" to take her pill on the honeymoon (true story: my best friend in church did that--WHOOPSIE) and the couple gets a baby 7-9 months after the wedding day. So now the bride's got the crazy physiological shit happening from pregnancy and childbirth and a very rigid gender role assigned to her that makes absolutely sure she's overworked, underslept, and underappreciated, and gets to share a bed with a guy who has less of an idea of how her body works than she does. Babies are enough of a hassle and disruption to a couple when they're planned. The way fundies handle family-making, it's like playing with matches in a fireworks factory. Women are a growing segment of the porn industry's consumer base. They may not admit it, but they're watching way more than men suspect. And they're probably not watching the faintly-ridiculous woman-made artsy-fartsy stuff either. I tried one of those once, and somewhere between the metaphysical chess game and the guy riding the horse along a white ghostly beach, I lost interest. If a man suggests watching a porno together, he's got a decent chance of suggesting this to a woman who will be receptive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 "I was told that if I got close to anyone, be it sex, kissing, holding hands, or anything like that, I'm helping her cheat on her future husband." I was never told this about any future wife that I may have. Another screaming example of the horrendous double standards applied to women within the church. It wasn't a double standard necessarily, I was cheating on my future wife if I kissed a girl. I bet the issue of a single or double standard varies from church to church and from denomination to denomination. The one I attended put the same pre-marital sex standard to men as women. However they still claimed that husbands ruled over wives like Christ ruling over the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wndwalkr99 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 @ww99 & Akheia: I still disagree--but whatever. I'm not condemning the way anyone chooses to live. What are you disagreeing with, exactly? I realize that you and Akheia have hashed this out, but I honestly don't know what you're disagreeing with in regards to what I wrote (which was: "Yes, a person can (love more than one person at once). Maybe YOU can't, but please don't imagine that you're speaking for me here.") You disagree that a person can love more than one other person at once? Or you disagree that you're not speaking for me? Or what? You are a teenager, correct? Allow me to assure you that your disagreement with whether someone can love more than one person at once is absolutely immaterial. I have done it, am doing it currently, and expect to do so into the foreseeable future. It is part of who I am. So if your disagreement is with the possibility that someone can do this, please understand that while you are entitled to your opionion -- be it informed or otherwise -- that does not change the simple fact of this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 All I'm saying is being in love with more than one person doesn't make sense. I don't care what you do and I apologize if I've offended you. Yes, I'm a teenager. Why mention it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 All I'm saying is being in love with more than one person doesn't make sense. I don't care what you do and I apologize if I've offended you. Yes, I'm a teenager. Why mention it? It wouldn't surprise me at all if you change your mind in the next few years. That is how it happens to everybody else. You are in love with one person and suddenly you are in love with somebody else too. In my experience it didn't matter if I wanted it or tried to fight it. If the feelings were going to happen then they happened. Love doesn't have to make sense and often doesn't. It's messy and somtimes crazy. Love triangles are quite common. Still wishing you the best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wndwalkr99 Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 All I'm saying is being in love with more than one person doesn't make sense. I don't care what you do and I apologize if I've offended you. Yes, I'm a teenager. Why mention it? It makes perfect sense. You just haven't experienced it yet. I mention your age because it is material here. You're young. You don't have all that much experience (if any) and frankly you don't know what you're talking about. I don't mean any disrespect by that. Teenagers are that way, and hopefully you'll grow out of it. Edited to add - for the record, I am happily in a sexually monogamous relationship. But again - allow me to assure you that for many people, it is possible to love more than one person at once. You may never be capable of that, and that's okay. But it is dismissive and arrogant to simply claim that "it doesn't make sense" particularly as someone so young. Honestly, you really have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I guess you want to be offended. OK, then. As long as we're talking about how things seem, saying that what I think doesn't count because I'm young seems "dismissive and arrogant" and a bit snotty to me. Maybe that's not how you meant it. But it sounds that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wndwalkr99 Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I guess you want to be offended. OK, then. As long as we're talking about how things seem, saying that what I think doesn't count because I'm young seems "dismissive and arrogant" and a bit snotty to me. Maybe that's not how you meant it. But it sounds that way. No, you disagreeing with something you have no idea about is what is dismissive and arrogant. I'm excusing it because you're young. If you have a different explanation for it, by all means, do tell. For the record, I'm not offended. I'm telling you about a complex part of human sexuality that I have personally experienced. I still don't know what is is you think you're "disagreeing" with.. I don't care if it makes sense to you - just remember that you haven't exactly had the time or opportunity to experience it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentknight Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I'm very charmed by stories of couples who are their respective only lovers. Doesn't happen often though. Couples who manage to stay together like that are probably more rare than black-nosed tuxedo cats. Sooner or later someone's going to figure out what they're not getting, and at that point there is going to be a come-to-jesus moment that hopefully will resolve with mutual growth instead of growing-apart. I remember hearing some advice columnist who actually advocated giving 15-year-old girls Hitachi Magic Wands for their birthdays so they knew what sex was supposed to accomplish before their first fumbling attempts at it, but for some wacky reason that never quite took off. Virginity is a fine and wonderful thing if that's what the people who value it want to do. I'm totally happy for them and wish 'em well. I just know how rare it is that things match up with idealism. The solution is not to double down on idealism but to see how it can better match up with reality. Interestingly enough, my wife was my first "real" girlfriend. (I had "girlfriends" in school that I barely even talked to, as kids do). We've now been together 12 years, and both of us are pretty happy with the arrangement. Hopefully it will stay that way! *fingers crossed* 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 SK, I am totally sure it will be if you have any say in the matter. (Now dying to know if you've played that 80s board game "Dungeon".. it was my gateway drug to tabletop D&D and I spent three years finding a copy of it, but despite my enthusiasm and charming ironic attachment to the game, NOBODY WILL PLAY IT WITH ME GODDAMMIT. I should start an OT thread.) You guys sound like you have a really deep commitment to each other and a real desire to grow together and not apart. And you're gamers. I think that element of creativity and playfulness, that style of cooperative storytelling, helps a lot of couples explore new things and try new ideas without having to stray outside the confines of a monogamous relationship. I've seen it in countless tabletop games--people who play just one role tend to get a little burned out after a while. Just being "loyal hubsy" or "dutiful wife" or "doting mama" gets kind of old. That's I think part of why people have affairs--they have a lot of love to give, a lot of roles they *can* be, and it's stifling to just be stuck in one role forever. And they don't know how to express that in a mature way and see if their partners are willing to work with the desire to play something else for a change. So to speak. Speaking of romantically loving two people at once... been there several times. I think most people have. Thankfully, one doesn't have to act on every feeling one has toward another person. This idea of emotional abstinence strikes me as just as preposterous as sexual abstinence is, just as effective, and just as poisonous. What we need is education in how to recognize if a romantic feeling could lead to a viable relationship, how to have enough self-respect and dignity to avoid getting tripped up by those feelings, and how to develop a relationship once it's started so that it has more of a chance of surviving inevitable third-party urges. We all know the stereotype of the guy who marries the first woman who lets him get his dick wet and then suffers the rest of his life for his bad judgment. Same thing can happen to a girl who marries the first man who gets her heart pounding. If she doesn't know how to handle romantic feelings, she's going to fall hard for the wrong guy and suffer for it. The solution to erotic desires is not to stamp them down and marry the first target who acts halfway receptive to them, but to explore them and understand them so that we can enjoy them safely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentknight Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 As is implied by your post, Akheia, actions are a different thing than thoughts. (Unlike some bible thumpers believe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 When they're both forbidden, one might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I guess you want to be offended. OK, then. As long as we're talking about how things seem, saying that what I think doesn't count because I'm young seems "dismissive and arrogant" and a bit snotty to me. Maybe that's not how you meant it. But it sounds that way. No, you disagreeing with something you have no idea about is what is dismissive and arrogant. I'm excusing it because you're young. If you have a different explanation for it, by all means, do tell. 1) You failed to notice earlier that I said I don't care what anyone else does because it's not my life. That's all I'm going to say about it. 2) I don't give a care if you "excuse" what I say. Thinking people express their opinions according to your rules is unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToZanarkand Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I feel like this whole discussion about multiple lovers vs. a single lover comes down to how an individual defines and perceives "love." Love is one of those words that is tossed around so often in discussions, but it is rarely defined. Love can mean so many different things to different people. To some, it may mean an unrelenting dedication to ONE person you have strong feelings for. To another, it may simply mean having strong feelings and sexual attraction for someone. I imagine if you asked 50 different people to define love, you would probably have more than a few different definitions. Some would probably be quite similar, but there would certainly be some different nuances. It's sort of like when you'd talk to other Christians about Jesus when you were a Christian. You both KNEW Jesus, but you probably didn't have identical interpretations of him, especially if you broke his character down with a bunch of "What Would Jesus Do" scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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