Super Moderator florduh Posted September 23, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2012 Where Islam is not only the religion but also the law of the land, barbarity reigns supreme. I agree with everything you brought up in your post but just wanted to add an aside. What you mention above is a great measuring stick for religious morality. And way back when Christianity was the law of the land barbarity reigned supreme as well. That is something worth remembering. I'm acutely aware of that fact. The Old Testament is every bit as barbaric in its message as the Koran is. Followers of the OT and NT have evolved in large part, while the Koran crowd hasn't. In today's world, we need to deal with today's problems in order of severity. Christianity is no longer the biggest threat to peace, safety and personal freedoms. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Christianity is no longer the biggest threat to peace, safety and personal freedoms. At least not right now. It can always take a turn for the worst too. In general though, many versions of Christianity have been pretty good in adapting to new culture and thoughts. Just because it's a "goody-bag" of many old pagan and other religious beliefs, and the book contains many contradictory ideas, it's easy to change the dogma to fit in with current times. Of course it's not always true, but ... kind of in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted September 23, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2012 At least not right now. Yes, I know. That is my point. My position is in no way an endorsement of Christianity. It is too late to stop Christianity around these parts, but perhaps we could at least slow down the influx of an even (currently) worse religion. Just because you already have a shit-flinging monkey living in your house, that doesn't mean you have to also take in a gorilla just to be fair and not look like a bigot. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 At least not right now. Yes, I know. That is my point. My position is in no way an endorsement of Christianity. It is too late to stop Christianity around these parts, but perhaps we could at least slow down the influx of an even (currently) worse religion. Just because you already have a shit-flinging monkey living in your house, that doesn't mean you have to also take in a gorilla just to be fair and not look like a bigot. You're absolutely right. We have to take care of the biggest threats first. I think Zorro pointed out that you have to take out the biggest guy first, because if you can't, you're screwed either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Condell is right. There is no place in civilized society for today's Islam. The US and Britain are already stuck with the Christians, and they fuck things up well enough. We need not welcome another, even more conservative, more violent religion in the name of political correctness. Where Islam is not only the religion but also the law of the land, barbarity reigns supreme. Why should we welcome that where we live? Politically correct diversity? Because not all Muslims kill people? So nobody can throw the word 'bigot' or 'racist' at us? Do we need to forgive everything because of US foreign policy? Sorry. Don't need them, don't want them. Not worth the trouble. Let those "good Muslims" stay in their own Islamic countries and clean them up first before they move here. People who follow that religion, regardless of their race or country of origin, are idiots at best and barbarians at worst. The vast majority of Skinheads haven't personally committed any murders, but I'd rather not have the Skinheads around either, especially in my corner of the world. I may not be able to legally keep them out, but I don't have to put out the welcome mat and find excuses for their behavior and philosophy. What are you suggesting? Discriminatory immigration practices? No goody basket for Muslim neighbors? Or just a generally hostile attitude toward the religion? I'm not judging here. I have a hostile attitude toward all religions. I pretty much keep it to myself except for online, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted September 23, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2012 No goody basket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 No goody basket. Well, O.K., but your new Muslim neighbors might not invite you over for baklava and green tea and fatwa bingo. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Atheists need to build space ships and leave this insane asylum called Earth. The religions can nuke it out amongst themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Atheists need to build space ships and leave this insane asylum called Earth. The religions can nuke it out amongst themselves. Make them leave. They are always putting the world down anyway, saying "be in the world but not of the world". I say if you are not of it, you should be off it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I'm probably stupid, but I don't feel personally threatened by any religion in this day and age. Religion gets far more credit than it deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted September 24, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted September 24, 2012 I'm probably stupid, but I don't feel personally threatened by any religion in this day and age. Religion gets far more credit than it deserves. I don't feel personally threatened, either. That doesn't mean the Abrahamic religions, in particular, aren't a huge negative influence in the world. Islam, for example, will probably not cause me to personally have acid thrown in my face, or have me stoned to death, or blown up on a bus or train, but I'm a bit uncomfortable with the fact that many others are currently subject to those inhumanities done in the name of a god. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 You do seem to fear it to a degree if you are as concerned with it as it appears from your posts here. I'm just reading what I see. IMO, the bigger dangers in the world are our governments and the global disputes over resources masked as religious battles, erosion of civil rights, heart disease, cancer, crossing the street, the safety of my car's air bag, malaria, bird flu, getting hit by lightening and religious terrorism, roughly in that order. And I'm far more likely to be a victim of terror given where I live. I even missed the bombing of the train between Moscow and SPB a few years ago simply because I went home a day early. The train I was scheduled on was blown up. It would have never happened in the first place, however, if Russia hadn't mowed down Grozni with a steam shovel. The fact that the culprits were likely Muslim is neither here nor there IMO, so this goes back to the fact that government is my biggest threat. I agree with you that Muslims believe stupid shit and often act that way too. I just don't see the group as a whole as a large threat to humanity in the scheme of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted September 24, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted September 24, 2012 You do fear it to a degree if you are as concerned with it as it appears from your posts here. I'm just reading what I see. No, not on a personal level; at least not yet. What I do fear is more people willing to sweep the problem under the rug, minimize it, and blame their bad behavior on forces unrelated to their religion. I see the religion, it's holy book and its leaders as a huge and growing problem not only to the civilized world, but the heavily Muslim countries primarily. Stability will never be achieved as long as Islam is allowed to run rampant in so many countries where they are subverting law, human rights, and progress in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 That's fear F. You think that it's encroaching if you think people are sweeping it under the rug and apologizing for it. It's pretty much always been around and isn't going away. What I fear is going to war because people assume it's encroaching or denying people basic civil rights and otherwise discriminating against an entire group of people because they fear it's encroaching. Global instability is caused by US, Euro, Chinese, and Russian foreign policy goals far more than religion. I just don't understand how we can kick the shit out of Islamic nations around the globe, then they strike back in the most feeble of fashions and we point to that and say, "see, they are a threat!" That's crazy to me. Not a whole lot different than displacing the American indians and then calling them savages when they started scalping our pioneers. Bottom line is, you aren't going to make Islamic countries non Islamic countries and if you try, you are going to make a bad situation worse. Muslims moving to the west are going to assimilate just like all other groups assimilate. Is Detroit a hotspot of Islamic terrorist activity? Are they making inroads on sharia law in Michigan and beyond? Then we have bigger fish to fry IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Get rid of one religion and another one takes it place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 Get rid of one religion and another one takes it place. Hopefully the cycle will stop one day. I must say, this has been an interesting debate to watch. Vigile and Florduh have me torn as to whom I agree with. I haven't jumped ship, just feeling a little out of my depth. Guess I still have some listening and thinking to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Hopefully the cycle will stop one day. I think we can when we find the right thing to replace it with, but the problem though is that power-hungry sociopaths and narcissists will create new religions, and there will always be a group of people willing to get hooked by the delusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 Hopefully the cycle will stop one day. I think we can when we find the right thing to replace it with, but the problem though is that power-hungry sociopaths and narcissists will create new religions, and there will always be a group of people willing to get hooked by the delusion. Just an example of an instance when we could use some good old natural selection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted September 24, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted September 24, 2012 Get rid of one religion and another one takes it place. Hopefully the cycle will stop one day. I must say, this has been an interesting debate to watch. Vigile and Florduh have me torn as to whom I agree with. I haven't jumped ship, just feeling a little out of my depth. Guess I still have some listening and thinking to do Vig and I read the same news. We just take away different messages - for whatever reasons. He will correct me if I'm wrong, but he seems to think Islam doesn't present much of a threat when compared to other problems in the world. I contend that it is a growing threat to the world in general, and is already actively impeding peace, justice, and human rights in those countries that are already heavily populated by Muslims. He sees their violent outbursts as isolated incidents set off by political injustices (mainly American) and I see them as an ever increasing expression of a mad religion gone wild over avenging perceived insults to their god and prophet. Sometimes, politics is also used as an excuse to blow up shit and kill people, but that doesn't explain why they maim women and children who are themselves Muslim and stone to death their own kind. I'm convinced that religious belief is at the heart of their barbarity and therefore would like to see the rest of us not be so tolerant of what is sometimes viewed as 'just another religion on the other side of the world' by so many in the West. Even if there were no chance they would export their culture to civilized countries, it is a destabilizing force and affront to human rights. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Small correction on my position. I see religion in general as being a negative force in the countries it exists and in the lives of believers. I see fundamentalism as being an even greater threat or negative force than just religion in general and I see fundamentalism taking root largely in the most rural, least educated regions of the world and I believe there is a correlation between its growth in poverty and political instability. As such, I don't see the Islamic world as a Leviathan, but as a very diverse experience that can't be summed up in terms of simply good and bad and can't be painted with a broad brush if one is to be intellectually honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneTarus Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I love Pat. I've been subscribed to him for years. for the most part he pretty much tells it like it really is. with that dry British sarcasm that I love so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I watched the video linked to this thread and found myself continuing to watch about 10 more of them. I love a good dose of properly wielded sarcasm. I find him entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 What's bothering me the most about Islam right now is that so many countries are kowtowing to their demands for the chilling of free speech. We're bending over and spreading our ass cheeks for them and then just trusting them to be gentle when they fuck us. When a hysterical brat is throwing a tantrum and destroying your house, you don't promise to stop making him eat healthy food and drop your request that he go to bed at a reasonable hour. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 What's bothering me the most about Islam right now is that so many countries are kowtowing to their demands for the chilling of free speech. We're bending over and spreading our ass cheeks for them and then just trusting them to be gentle when they fuck us. When a hysterical brat is throwing a tantrum and destroying your house, you don't promise to stop making him eat healthy food and drop your request that he go to bed at a reasonable hour. Akheia wins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 What's bothering me the most about Islam right now is that so many countries are kowtowing to their demands for the chilling of free speech. We're bending over and spreading our ass cheeks for them and then just trusting them to be gentle when they fuck us. When a hysterical brat is throwing a tantrum and destroying your house, you don't promise to stop making him eat healthy food and drop your request that he go to bed at a reasonable hour. Well, here's an area where I can agree with everyone on I guess. I don't think we should offer shelter from free speech protection ever. I love it when South Park, Danish cartoonists, et al exercise this right and I think countries like the UK need to pull their heads out and repeal their so-called blasphemy laws as they have no quarter in a liberally-minded country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts