Denyoz Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I was reading some stories on this forum last night and it reminded me of something: the summer of 1982. I was 19 years old, and found myself attending a special lecture on "Extreme Unction" that was given by a Catholic priest. I don't know if any of you ever heard of this sacrament. Using a consecrated oil, the priest said he was authorized by the Church to give this anointing to whoever wanted to receive it, as long as you were not in a state of mortal sin. This rite of passage is very sacred to the Church and is usually given only to those who are dying. It apparently gives you the gift of the Holy Spirit and has the power to heal you. It cleanses your soul, unites you to Christ, forgives your sins, and prepares you to enter heaven. The lecture was two hours long. The priest said that God wanted his children to put their trust in Him, not to worry, and rest in His Spirit: "God is Love, He is not a judge, not a dictator, and not someone who wants to throw you in hell." I listened to every word he said. At the end of the talk, he invited us to come forward, and receive this anointing. He was holding in his left hand a small round golden container with the oil in it. People got up and started lining up in the aisle. There were approximately 80 people in the conference room. I wanted to receive this extreme unction, so I got up and stood in line. The first person stood in front on the priest. The priest dipped the tip of his forefinger into the oil, and gently touched the person on the forehead, did the sign of the cross, and said something like: "Through this holy anointing, may the Lord in his love and mercy help you with the grace of the Holy Spirit." The person fell backwards, and the two persons standing behind him caught him and let him rest on the floor. The second person stepped forward, and the same thing happened: he was floored! Third person, same thing. My turn was coming. My heart started beating faster and I thought to myself: "What is going on here. I have never seen anything like this before." But I was ready to receive the Holy Spirit, I felt I had nothing to lose and I trusted this priest. When my turn came, I stood in front of the priest. He dipped his finger into the oil, touched my forehead and said the magic words. He didn't even have time to finish the phrase, I felt like a gush of warm water enter my body through my forehead, and fill every cell in my body. I fell backwards into some sort of altered state of consciousness. There were waves of warm love going through my whole body. I felt all the bad stuff lifting out of me: the anger, the regrets, the sorrow, the hatred, all the negative stuff that had been piling up inside of me sinse my childhood, every bit of it was being sucked out and replaced with extreme peace, pure joy, and love. The intensity of this new awareness was undescribable, nothing like anything I had experienced before. It changed my life. This happened exactly 30 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Wow. The power of ......damn what's the word I'm trying to think of?...... Dammit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I was never susceptible to that kind of suggestion or group dynamic. Is that how you view it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 POWER OF SUGGESTION!! Thank you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser01 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 people look to toehrs to see how their supposed to act, these events are orchestrated to get a certian effect from the audience. The events escalate until people are rolling around on the ground or screaming and speaking in tongues, their based on sensationalism and group suggestion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted July 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 4, 2012 Deny, I found this article to be very interesting on the power of suggestion.... Enjoy....... http://www.the7thfir...r_your_mind.htm Quote: ''So, to begin, I want to share a basic fact about brainwashing: IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF MAN, NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN BRAINWASHED AND REALIZED, OR BELIEVED, THAT HE HAD BEEN BRAINWASHED. Those who have been brainwashed will usually passionately defend their manipulators, claiming they have simply been "shown the light" ... or have been transformed in miraculous ways.....Any study of brainwashing has to begin with a study of Christian revivalism in eighteenth century America''...... WE ARE BRAINWASHED PEOPLE........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raoul Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Deny, I found this article to be very interesting on the power of suggestion.... Enjoy....... http://www.the7thfir...r_your_mind.htm Quote: ''So, to begin, I want to share a basic fact about brainwashing: IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF MAN, NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN BRAINWASHED AND REALIZED, OR BELIEVED, THAT HE HAD BEEN BRAINWASHED. Those who have been brainwashed will usually passionately defend their manipulators, claiming they have simply been "shown the light" ... or have been transformed in miraculous ways.'' Once again you provide an excellent academic source that I've found to be fascinating and painfully true. Thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denyoz Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 I was never susceptible to that kind of suggestion or group dynamic. Is that how you view it now? What if what is being suggested to you is true, but you just can't see it with your eyes, nor feel it with your five senses? I know how susceptible we can be to that kind of suggestion or group dynamic. But you can have the save experience when you are alone and are not being suggested anything. Like this one which I posted an another thread: "I was 6 or 7 years old. It was a bright sunny day, I was walking calmly towards home, alone, coming back from somewhere. This was in my hometown. It was a normal day, nothing special had happened, I was just walking down the street. All of a sudden, for no apparent reason, I became EXTREMELY happy! It was like a powerful flash of happiness that burst inside me and all around me, including houses, trees, everything. It was 100 times more happiness I had ever felt in my whole life, for no reason at all! At the same time, it was like a flash of pure light and a flash of pure love. It lasted maybe 5 seconds, then it dimmed down gradually and after maybe one minute, everything was back to normal. I remember thinking: "What was that?" I had never experienced anything like this before. I thought some aliens in space had beamed something at me, or that maybe God really loved me and he was trying to tell me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denyoz Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 Quote: ''So, to begin, I want to share a basic fact about brainwashing: IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF MAN, NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN BRAINWASHED AND REALIZED, OR BELIEVED, THAT HE HAD BEEN BRAINWASHED. Hi Margee, thank you for the 24-page long article (which I have read). I will argue your above quote by saying that a lot of poeple have been brainwashed and have realized later on that they have been brainwashed, including probably all the members of this website, and ME included. Is it brainwashing to become aware of the existence of Pure Love? I still believe that Christianity is bullshit, but does that mean that love, peace and joy are bullshit also? Does love have the power to lift up and heal: anger, regrets, sorrow, hatred, and negative stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denyoz Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 Those who have read my previous posts know how negative I am. I have written about being severely depressed, suicidal, heavily medicated, having no hope, no purpose, being sick and tired of helping people, and love being a trick of the brain. Most of the replies I have received were more or less suggestions to be more positive. So I have searched my past to see where I can find a source of happiness and hope, something meaningful that I can start believing in and building on. I'm not interested in churches, priests, sacred oils, magic words, falling backwards. But I am interested in finding a cure for negativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted July 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 4, 2012 Hello, my friend I must reply With a simple verse Which may catch your eye Take a lesson From Antlerman And feal the peace Emerge from within A moment spent Without a thought Can make your suffering Not Explore your past Accept the pain Enjoy the moment And smile again! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Its pretty strange, but I have overcome a great deal of negativity. I just think of all the beauty I still find in the world and in my own self. I am a very introspective person, so I don't know that this works for everyone. Meditation and having a commitment to Buddhist practice has really, genuinely helped me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I have never experienced anything like that while in Christianity. However, I've experienced intense spiritual connections on my own, or within another framework. I don't know what happened to you. I've never been moved by christian prayer or ritual before. Maybe they are tapping into something, I don't know. But how they act with it, I tend to object to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denyoz Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 Maybe they are tapping into something, I don't know. I think Christianity has "stolen" truths from other sources and stamped Jesus' face on it to fit their own agenda. I think all that priest did was help me open up to a reality that I had not yet been in touch with. When I had the experience, I did not have any visions of Jesus, or heard any voice say "This is the Holy Spirit." The church was not directly involved, it was a personal thing between me and something (someone) out there and/or within myself. I can interprete it as I wish. I know what I have experienced but I don't know the proper words to describe it. It was a profound awareness and the start of a long journey into self discovery. It had its ups and downs, and right now I'm going through a major down, but it's not the end yet. I'm picking up the pieces. This is a big piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I hope you find where the pieces fit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I'm not interested in churches, priests, sacred oils, magic words, falling backwards. But I am interested in finding a cure for negativity. Best I can find really, there is no cure. It seems people like your and me are cursed with it. But we have the duty to others to live in-spite of it and maybe in that strength we find something like a cure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raoul Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 But I am interested in finding a cure for negativity. Everything begins in the mind or so they say. So, you have to practice positive thoughts and no negativity. I know it's incredibly hard to do but once you've mastered it then I believe postive things will flow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 It seems most people miss the real point of such experiences. It doesn't matter if it's a matter of 'manipulating' someone, it's the content of the experience itself that matters. What did it open you to in yourself? What effect did it have on you? Did it change your life? Did it expose you to something that transformed you, lifted you out of your small little world into a much larger, more positive existence? Then who honestly cares what the means to that end are? Who we are as humans we use these sorts of 'aides' to open us to things blocked in us all the time. We are a symbolic species. We use symbols to moves us from one state to another. This is what faith and belief do in us. The oil on the head is not magic. The magic is what is in us and we simply use the vehicle of the symbol, the oil, the god symbol, as a means to move ourselves beyond the mundane and release that 'magic' in us which was there all along. We just didn't see it. If it weren't, then where did it come from? The reaction that people have is that these same sorts of tools, these means, these symbols, these aides, were instead used to exploit the individual and use them from some purpose of the group. That is what happened in the sorts of woo-woo churches we participated in. I posted this elsewhere about speaking in tongues how that in those Charismatic churches they were like children who found the keys to a car, turn it on, then sit in it revving up the motor and playing with the steering wheel, but all the while having no idea what the stick-sift on the floor is for or does! In other words they make lots of noise but don't get it. They don't put it in gear and actually use the vehicle as a means to a destination. They make the car the thing itself. And so then they get all the other kids to pile into the car and play adult, promising them release and instead just giving them a noisy car. That that is the experience of some does not mean that is the experience of others. Some actually do get it, and move beyond thinking the car is the thing itself. They see the car as a vehicle to take them somewhere, where when they get out of it at the other side their entire landscape and reality has changed. They actually use the car for a real purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted July 5, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2012 It seems most people miss the real point of such experiences. It doesn't matter if it's a matter of 'manipulating' someone, it's the content of the experience itself that matters. What did it open you to in yourself? What effect did it have on you? Did it change your life? Did it expose you to something that transformed you, lifted you out of your small little world into a much larger, more positive existence? Then who honestly cares what the means to that end are? Who we are as humans we use these sorts of 'aides' to open us to things blocked in us all the time. We are a symbolic species. We use symbols to moves us from one state to another. This is what faith and belief do in us. The oil on the head is not magic. The magic is what is in us and we simply use the vehicle of the symbol, the oil, the god symbol, as a means to move ourselves beyond the mundane and release that 'magic' in us which was there all along. We just didn't see it. If it weren't, then where did it come from? The reaction that people have is that these same sorts of tools, these means, these symbols, these aides, were instead used to exploit the individual and use them from some purpose of the group. That is what happened in the sorts of woo-woo churches we participated in. I posted this elsewhere about speaking in tongues how that in those Charismatic churches they were like children who found the keys to a car, turn it on, then sit in it revving up the motor and playing with the steering wheel, but all the while having no idea what the stick-sift on the floor is for or does! In other words they make lots of noise but don't get it. They don't put it in gear and actually use the vehicle as a means to a destination. They make the car the thing itself. And so then they get all the other kids to pile into the car and play adult, promising them release and instead just giving them a noisy car. That that is the experience of some does not mean that is the experience of others. Some actually do get it, and move beyond thinking the car is the thing itself. They see the car as a vehicle to take them somewhere, where when they get out of it at the other side their entire landscape and reality has changed. They actually use the car for a real purpose. ***** Thank you antlerman...your posts always lift me up........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I have no idea if there is a deity or not (although I'm mostly certain there isn't an intervening theistic one), but one thing I do know that as humans we are spiritual beings, I've personally had many "numinous experiences" (they probably were from suggestion, so what?). I've had them after completely rejecting Yahweh and Jesus, same as I had them while being a christian, so from that I can infer that being a christian has nothing to do with it. Forget Jesus and christianity, forget rules or bigotry, but if spirituality works for you pursue it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I just wanted to add a thought to what I said earlier that came to me while I was out walking. Eventually these tools, these aides we use to help us see and touch that in ourselves, become occasional only as we become more this in ourselves permanently. We become what we truly are. Soon the whole world is that which we touch in these openings though these tools. The tools are temporary, devices, and not the Truth itself, which is who and what we are behind and beyond the masks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denyoz Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 I'm not interested in churches, priests, sacred oils, magic words, falling backwards. But I am interested in finding a cure for negativity. Best I can find really, there is no cure. It seems people like your and me are cursed with it. But we have the duty to others to live in-spite of it and maybe in that strength we find something like a cure. I think I learned how to be negative, it didn't just happen spontaneously. I believe I can also learn how to be happy. It won't be a cure, but a choice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denyoz Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 they were like children who found the keys to a car, turn it on, then sit in it revving up the motor and playing with the steering wheel, but all the while having no idea what the stick-sift on the floor is for or does! In other words they make lots of noise but don't get it. They don't put it in gear and actually use the vehicle as a means to a destination. They make the car the thing itself. And so then they get all the other kids to pile into the car and play adult, promising them release and instead just giving them a noisy car. I like your car analogy. And I agree when you say it's the content of the experience that matters, not the context. Heck, my aunt said she had a similar experience while sitting at home in her livingroom. She said it felt like she was hit by lightning. It changed her life and she would always refer to god as Energy. For me, the experience was a turning point in my life because I never knew so much love existed and that it could be directed at me in this way. And I don't know where it came from. It didn't come from the oil, it didn't come from the priest. I felt loved, accepted and elevated by love itself, as if it were a person, or an energy, or an entity. It started me on a new path, it became the number one priority in my life. Until recently. If I am a member of this website it's because I have stopped trusting this love. The loss of this trust is what caused me to become depressive. So, logically, if I want to get out of depression, I have to start trusting again. Is life trying to crush me or elevate me? It often looks like it's playing with me. It's difficult to trust and at the same time have no expectations. No desires, in other words. The first of the four noble truths of buddhism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 For me, the experience was a turning point in my life because I never knew so much love existed and that it could be directed at me in this way. And I don't know where it came from. It didn't come from the oil, it didn't come from the priest. I felt loved, accepted and elevated by love itself, as if it were a person, or an energy, or an entity. It started me on a new path, it became the number one priority in my life. This is an identical description of my experience and how I perceived it. For me over time I came to understand that what appeared as external to me, was in fact a display to my mind of what was in me - which is in all things. In other words, it's not out there looking down on you, but in you, and all things. You simply see it, in that moment, in that opening. God is the Face we put on that, because we identify our self with our mind as separate than that. It's the face in the mirror we don't realize is our own. That said.... Until recently. If I am a member of this website it's because I have stopped trusting this love. The loss of this trust is what caused me to become depressive. So, logically, if I want to get out of depression, I have to start trusting again. With that understanding above I just expressed, when you say you have stopped trusting this love, what I hear is you don't know how to reconnect with that and find it in yourself, or that you don't know how to integrate it into the here and now in a way that is stable and healthy for you. The depression then might be knowing this is available, but not knowing how to successfully realize and experience it in your daily life. Sound about right? I would say first look within. I was just discussing with a friend of mine some difficulties she has in her life, trying to figure out what's wrong. The problem with that approach is that she, and most people, try to penetrate the problem with being able to wrap your mind around it and solve it like a puzzle. The difficulty is that we can spend so many years trying to figure out why something is the way it is and never get anywhere with it. What is needed is to gain a new perspective altogether. You rise above the maze to see it from a new altitude and begin to clearly see how its laid out, and the fact that what seemed insurmountable, and an impenetrable maze was actually only 4 inches tall. But when you are looking directly at it, it is the whole world. Trying to figure it out can actually be the problem itself. Learn yourself. Experience that Love. Integrate it. Become that. Not in blind compassion, but in Wisdom which is that Love with power and control through self-knowledge and realization. Is life trying to crush me or elevate me? It often looks like it's playing with me. It's difficult to trust and at the same time have no expectations. No desires, in other words. The first of the four noble truths of buddhism. Stop seeing it outside of and beyond you, and start seeing yourself as within it and it within you. Become that in the now. It is already you. Let it be. If you are that, you no longer desire. You are that eternal in your conscious, waking mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted July 6, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 6, 2012 For me, the experience was a turning point in my life because I never knew so much love existed and that it could be directed at me in this way. And I don't know where it came from. It didn't come from the oil, it didn't come from the priest. I felt loved, accepted and elevated by love itself, as if it were a person, or an energy, or an entity. It started me on a new path, it became the number one priority in my life. This is an identical description of my experience and how I perceived it. For me over time I came to understand that what appeared as external to me, was in fact a display to my mind of what was in me - which is in all things. In other words, it's not out there looking down on you, but in you, and all things. You simply see it, in that moment, in that opening. God is the Face we put on that, because we identify our self with our mind as separate than that. It's the face in the mirror we don't realize is our own. That said.... Until recently. If I am a member of this website it's because I have stopped trusting this love. The loss of this trust is what caused me to become depressive. So, logically, if I want to get out of depression, I have to start trusting again. With that understanding above I just expressed, when you say you have stopped trusting this love, what I hear is you don't know how to reconnect with that and find it in yourself, or that you don't know how to integrate it into the here and now in a way that is stable and healthy for you. The depression then might be knowing this is available, but not knowing how to successfully realize and experience it in your daily life. Sound about right? I would say first look within. I was just discussing with a friend of mine some difficulties she has in her life, trying to figure out what's wrong. The problem with that approach is that she, and most people, try to penetrate the problem with being able to wrap your mind around it and solve it like a puzzle. The difficulty is that we can spend so many years trying to figure out why something is the way it is and never get anywhere with it. What is needed is to gain a new perspective altogether. You rise above the maze to see it from a new altitude and begin to clearly see how its laid out, and the fact that what seemed insurmountable, and an impenetrable maze was actually only 4 inches tall. But when you are looking directly at it, it is the whole world. Trying to figure it out can actually be the problem itself. Learn yourself. Experience that Love. Integrate it. Become that. Not in blind compassion, but in Wisdom which is that Love with power and control through self-knowledge and realization. Is life trying to crush me or elevate me? It often looks like it's playing with me. It's difficult to trust and at the same time have no expectations. No desires, in other words. The first of the four noble truths of buddhism. Stop seeing it outside of and beyond you, and start seeing yourself as within it and it within you. Become that in the now. It is already you. Let it be. If you are that, you no longer desire. You are that eternal in your conscious, waking mind. so Antlerman......you rise 'above the maze' and look at everything with a different, positive, loving, uplifting attitude....... then, change your mind that you refuse to be depressed ....and then your feelings change from 'trapped' to 'Love'? For instance, when I took my MIL to live with me....at first, I thought I would lose my mind and I fought depression for awhile knowing my life was going to change (again!!), but then I 'rised above the maze' and looked down.... and said, ''you will now become Nurse Margee and give this old lady the best you can in her last days''........ So far - so good...'Nurse' Margee is holding up and I feel OK, especially, when this old doll smiles up at me......... So....am I on the right track?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts