Akheia Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Got a friend who works on a ranch down there and he tells me all the time about how he feeds the kangaroos and stuff. It's pretty cool. For a long time I thought he was fucking with me. He got that "dry British humor" side of the Australian temperament, I think. Now that you mention it, though, the story of Job is one thing that got me really thinking about the general nature of God as revealed in his Bible. I'm not sure why the editors of the OT thought this was a good story to include at all; it really doesn't show him at his best. If God were Mel Gibson, the book of Job would be the clip of him screaming hysterically at his ex about hoping she'll be raped by black men. What got me most concerned was that God killed Job's kids. I had issues with the whole idea of Satan making a bet with God, yes, but God let Satan kill those kids for Job's sake. God had promised he'd never punish children for the sins of their fathers. So the act of slaughtering his own people just for a bet about a whole other person when he'd promised to leave kids alone when considering their parents, that was a real issue for me. I began to really listen to what people in church were saying at those weekly prayer meetings and bitchfests. THESE guys sure thought God was punishing them for what other people did or didn't do. I began to see a very human need for agency in how we were perceiving others' behavior. It didn't take long to extend that need for agency to prayer and a host of other nonsensical Biblical beliefs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raoul Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 All of you probably already know this but it bears repeating. The thing about Job is that the fundies take it literally as though it really happened when the sad fact is that some poor slob living in ancient times tried to come to grips with 'why bad things happen to innocent people' so he came up with this allegorical tale. Yet the 21st fundy runs with it as though it's the freaking truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 The thing about Job is that it comes from a common theme in the region, and has direct parallels such as Ludhul bel nimeqi and the poem of the righteous sufferer. They don't quite get that its still not a good job at explaining suffering, unless you want to say God is evil. He can still prevent it, yet he refuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raoul Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 The thing about Job is that it comes from a common theme in the region, and has direct parallels such as Ludhul bel nimeqi and the poem of the righteous sufferer. They don't quite get that its still not a good job at explaining suffering, unless you want to say God is evil. He can still prevent it, yet he refuses. I'm vaguely familiar with some of the similarities between the bible stuff and other religions but I'd never heard about this one. Thanks. Also, your premise regarding God being evil does have merit to it because of that verse in the ot where a prophet is uttering God's words and says "I create evil". Years ago I'd had an atheist hit me upside the head with that verse which I'd never read. So, I looked it up for myself, saw he was accurate in his quoting this and, like the good fundy apologist that I was at the time - I headed for the hills to hide until he went away or just forgot about me. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 The thing about Job is that it comes from a common theme in the region, and has direct parallels such as Ludhul bel nimeqi and the poem of the righteous sufferer. They don't quite get that its still not a good job at explaining suffering, unless you want to say God is evil. He can still prevent it, yet he refuses. I'm vaguely familiar with some of the similarities between the bible stuff and other religions but I'd never heard about this one. Thanks. Also, your premise regarding God being evil does have merit to it because of that verse in the ot where a prophet is uttering God's words and says "I create evil". Years ago I'd had an atheist hit me upside the head with that verse which I'd never read. So, I looked it up for myself, saw he was accurate in his quoting this and, like the good fundy apologist that I was at the time - I headed for the hills to hide until he went away or just forgot about me. LOL Lol you would want to be a fly on the wall when I had that discussion with a pastor. Having him trip all over himself after just finishing saying "God doesn't and can't create evil". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Job to me is another example of god being a imbecile. A omniscient and omnipotent guy really needs to test people to see if they have faith or see what they will learn. And of course even if the apologetic rationalizations against that are true, as in god isn't omniscient or can't teach people in different ways then it still fails. It fails because there would be no guarantee that anybody would pass the tests and certainly some would fail, which makes god to be a idiot if he wants all to follow him and to be saved and do as he wills. Job was a success, but there is no way you could say every single test of faith is a success. Also one still ends up wondering, why isn't then god any different then the devil in either case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raoul Posted June 24, 2012 Author Share Posted June 24, 2012 Job to me is another example of god being a imbecile. A omniscient and omnipotent guy really needs to test people to see if they have faith or see what they will learn. And of course even if the apologetic rationalizations against that are true, as in god isn't omniscient or can't teach people in different ways then it still fails. It fails because there would be no guarantee that anybody would pass the tests and certainly some would fail, which makes god to be a idiot if he wants all to follow him and to be saved and do as he wills. Job was a success, but there is no way you could say every single test of faith is a success. Also one still ends up wondering, why isn't then god any different then the devil in either case? You point out the big disconnect with this story with all the ways you've approached it. To me the biggest problem is with the flawed logic in that Satan has been cast out of heaven and, according to Revelation, will be thrown into the lake of fire or whatever thing is mentioned for an eternal punishment. Yet, in Job, he and God are chums having a polite conversation. So, any rational mind would conclude the story was entirely made up as a fantasy to explain away suffering. But, as I've already pointed out before, the fundies take the story, run with it, and treat it as though it was as real as I am while I'm typing this to you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Too bad the final verse in that book was wiped out. It would have been helpful if it still said, "And then Job woke up and everything was okay!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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