GardenerGal Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I will say, the biggest thing I've been wrestling with has been the overwhelming fear of death. I think about how short and meaningless life is every day. I'm not suicidal. It's quite the opposite. I'm afraid of the end. We have no idea what's next, and what's the point in even being born? Life is so short, so full of pain, and then we die. Those we love die and leave us to die. And so on. I cannot be the only one who wrestles with this during deconversion. My whole entire worldview, things I assumed were solid under my feet, it's all dissolving before my eyes and I am struggling to find my footing. Sometimes I feel like I'm going crazy. Normal? I so understand this. I just attended my grandparents 60th anniversary this past weekend, and thought, "This may be the last time I see them, ever." I felt like my Grandpa had that same feeling at the intensity he showed saying goodbye. Two weeks ago was a really dark place for me, as perhaps it is for you right now. Promise you it gets better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I will say, the biggest thing I've been wrestling with has been the overwhelming fear of death. I think about how short and meaningless life is every day. I'm not suicidal. It's quite the opposite. I'm afraid of the end. We have no idea what's next, and what's the point in even being born? Life is so short, so full of pain, and then we die. Those we love die and leave us to die. And so on. I cannot be the only one who wrestles with this during deconversion. My whole entire worldview, things I assumed were solid under my feet, it's all dissolving before my eyes and I am struggling to find my footing. Sometimes I feel like I'm going crazy. Normal? My brother died less than a year after I deconverted (although I didn't label myself as an atheist until the day he died). Its pretty hard facing death and knowing that your loved ones are gone for good. I went through a pretty deep depression when I had to admit to myself that this life likely was it. What you're going through is completely normal, especially when you think for your entire life that there's more to it. In the end I think you just have to appreciate the life you have and do the most you can with it, my only hope is that I'll minimize regrets that I'll have on my deathbed, but even then it doesn't matter much, when I die I'll no more know about it that I knew about life before I was born. This second death (the realization that there is no afterlife) you're experiencing sucks, but once you get used to the idea its not too bad, these things get better with time. I'd give anything to have my brother back, but in the end I'm glad for the time I had with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I doubt if the "former atheist" was an atheist who had come to that position from education and research. It took a lot of hard work on my part to arrive at my position. (I'm proud of how far I've come, so I do get offended by faux former atheists trying to claim street creds they never earned.) However, my point is, after studying the bible and the history of christianity, I could never be convinced to go back to believing unless I discovered some extraordinary (and I do mean EXTRAORDINARY!) new evidence. If your friend was ever really an atheist because of rational/skeptical thinking and honest research, neither could s/he. So, yeah, I would like to know what persuades a "rational" atheist to become a christian. But, as to what persuades a mere apathetist to eventually succumb to the christian culture that pervades our lives, I'm not really all that interested; I wouldn't expect such a person to have a firm grasp on rationality. I really dislike this 'I doubt that an X was actuallly a true X' (substitute christianity or atheist for X). Of course someone could be an atheist for rational reasons only to re-convert. Maybe they just stop caring that everything points away from god and go back to the place which gave them so much comfort throughout their life. Maybe they'll have less faith in the bible but still trust in god/jesus. Having to admit that you're in the world without a loving deity / and there's no afterlife could be hard for some, its much easier in hopeless situations (especially facing something like cancer or death) to have hope even if deep down you know its not true. "The consolation of imaginary things is not imaginary consolation" -- Roger Scruton Their version of christianity might be different but its not hard to see how a true atheist could return to the fold in some form. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inorbit Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share Posted June 12, 2012 I will say, the biggest thing I've been wrestling with has been the overwhelming fear of death. I think about how short and meaningless life is every day. I'm not suicidal. It's quite the opposite. I'm afraid of the end. We have no idea what's next, and what's the point in even being born? Life is so short, so full of pain, and then we die. Those we love die and leave us to die. And so on. I cannot be the only one who wrestles with this during deconversion. My whole entire worldview, things I assumed were solid under my feet, it's all dissolving before my eyes and I am struggling to find my footing. Sometimes I feel like I'm going crazy. Normal? My brother died less than a year after I deconverted (although I didn't label myself as an atheist until the day he died). Its pretty hard facing death and knowing that your loved ones are gone for good. I went through a pretty deep depression when I had to admit to myself that this life likely was it. What you're going through is completely normal, especially when you think for your entire life that there's more to it. In the end I think you just have to appreciate the life you have and do the most you can with it, my only hope is that I'll minimize regrets that I'll have on my deathbed, but even then it doesn't matter much, when I die I'll no more know about it that I knew about life before I was born. This second death (the realization that there is no afterlife) you're experiencing sucks, but once you get used to the idea its not too bad, these things get better with time. I'd give anything to have my brother back, but in the end I'm glad for the time I had with him. Thanks for the encouragement. Truly sorry about the loss of your brother. Death sucks. *hugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmot Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I really dislike this 'I doubt that an X was actuallly a true X' (substitute christianity or atheist for X). Of course someone could be an atheist for rational reasons only to re-convert. Maybe they just stop caring that everything points away from god and go back to the place which gave them so much comfort throughout their life. Maybe they'll have less faith in the bible but still trust in god/jesus. Having to admit that you're in the world without a loving deity / and there's no afterlife could be hard for some, its much easier in hopeless situations (especially facing something like cancer or death) to have hope even if deep down you know its not true. "The consolation of imaginary things is not imaginary consolation" -- Roger Scruton Their version of christianity might be different but its not hard to see how a true atheist could return to the fold in some form. As long as Christians are willing to admit that atheists were True ChristiansTM, then I am willing to admit that true atheists can become Christians. It still doesn't make sense to me that someone who has seen backstage is willing to put aside their reason, but I can certainly accept that it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 My wife is always bringing up this unknown "atheist" that went to a Joyce Meyer event and "swears" he saw 10 foot tall angels with swords following her around the stage to "protect her". And yes I'm doing air quotes with my fingers. She (the wife) really buys into that to. oh, this info is from, guess who, Joyce Meyer herself. No conflict of interest there. Life ending facepalm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 My wife is always bringing up this unknown "atheist" that went to a Joyce Meyer event and "swears" he saw 10 foot tall angels with swords following her around the stage to "protect her". And yes I'm doing air quotes with my fingers. She (the wife) really buys into that to. oh, this info is from, guess who, Joyce Meyer herself. No conflict of interest there. Life ending facepalm Why don't you log into the Clergy Project as Joyce Myer. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam5 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Welcome, inorbit! Wow, I can relate to so much of your story. My husband (jblueep) and I were believers of the "spirit filled" variety for 25 years. We were in ministry roles when we left the church and our faith. This site was the only outlet we had to help us get through that process. ... Hi 2H, This is proving to be an interesting thread. Amazing post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam5 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 In the end I think you just have to appreciate the life you have and do the most you can with it, my only hope is that I'll minimize regrets that I'll have on my deathbed, Nicely put. I just count my blessings (if I can still say that!) and try and enjoy life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam5 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Christianity aside, I still strongly desire to be a "good person"-- just for very different reasons. Secular charities are made up of good natured people trying their best to do the right thing. With charities 100% of the donations go to good causes. Can the same be said of money placed in the collection plate? The "good book" is a very poor moral example, and once you eyes have been opened to the immorality and cruelty in it, it is very difficult to go back IMO. Sure we can cherry pick the good bits, but who are we kidding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raoul Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Thanks Inorbit for that very personal and sensitive story. If only those who claim to have the truth would be as truthful as you and the other folks around here are. If only... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I don't have to be right. I can be honest. It's much better. Love love love this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inorbit Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Well, I'm quasi-out, now. I officially left the ministry. There is another thread on here about how well that went (it really did go well!). I never renounced my faith, but did say that I needed to step back and re-evaluate where I was going with my life, that I had a lot on my plate, that I was in a place of a lot of questioning and uncertainty-- and that, as such, I didn't feel like it was best for me to be in ministry during this season. None of it was a lie, but it was definitely a "softer" version of the truth. I received much support, encouragement, and gratitude for my service. It's awesome to have that all off my plate. Also, my mother sort of found out, but in our conversation about it, she came to conclude that I was simply questioning some fringe, auxiliary things in Christianity. I decided not to correct her. So, she still thinks I'm an active believer. That's fine by me. Whatever helps her sleep at night. No, seriously. She's had a few strokes and doesn't need the added stress. I came out to my best friend, who is not a Christian, and they were super supportive and encouraging. Then, I came out to one of my super close Christian friends and was stunned (well, no... I had a hunch, which was why I told them) that they were in the EXACT same boat. Our stories are sooo identical. A strong faith destroyed by ministry training itself. And on and on. I won't go into all the details, but our stories have so very much in common. This was very encouraging to hear. We ended up talking for hours. I finally had someone who knew me and "got" me in ways that many of my friends don't. I still feel alone a lot of the time, though. If there are any else out there who feel that way, be encouraged! If you're human, then your experience is not unique. Hang in there. You'll find "kindred spirits." They may be closer than you think. *hugs* to all. Hope to pass on that encouragement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Our stories are sooo identical. A strong faith destroyed by ministry training itself. And on and on. I won't go into all the details, but our stories have so very much in common. Really studying up on the bible itself is enough to cause anyone who's honest with themselves to at least lose part of their faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 awesome, dude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xtech Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Of course someone could be an atheist for rational reasons only to re-convert. Maybe they just stop caring that everything points away from god and go back to the place which gave them so much comfort throughout their life. Maybe they'll have less faith in the bible but still trust in god/jesus. Having to admit that you're in the world without a loving deity / and there's no afterlife could be hard for some, its much easier in hopeless situations (especially facing something like cancer or death) to have hope even if deep down you know its not true. "The consolation of imaginary things is not imaginary consolation" -- Roger Scruton Their version of christianity might be different but its not hard to see how a true atheist could return to the fold in some form. The fact that there are belief systems all over the world that believe in supernatural beings and events suggest to me something about our psychology predisposes us to it. It is mainly for this reason I am not a fan of the strident anti-religious Big Four atheists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xtech Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 You'll find "kindred spirits." They may be closer than you think. Like right here! :-) All the best to you, inorbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Of course someone could be an atheist for rational reasons only to re-convert. Maybe they just stop caring that everything points away from god and go back to the place which gave them so much comfort throughout their life. Maybe they'll have less faith in the bible but still trust in god/jesus. Having to admit that you're in the world without a loving deity / and there's no afterlife could be hard for some, its much easier in hopeless situations (especially facing something like cancer or death) to have hope even if deep down you know its not true. "The consolation of imaginary things is not imaginary consolation" -- Roger Scruton Their version of christianity might be different but its not hard to see how a true atheist could return to the fold in some form. The fact that there are belief systems all over the world that believe in supernatural beings and events suggest to me something about our psychology predisposes us to it. It is mainly for this reason I am not a fan of the strident anti-religious Big Four atheists. Fear of death. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I'm kind of in that boat too, Xtech, but honestly, it could be as simple as us not wanting to be really *GONE* when we die, and a need for agency in our lives. Primitive humans would have been terrified of lightning and convinced that diseases and babies were some kind of divine curse or gift. It boggles the mind to just try to imagine what terror their everyday lives held, or to consider how little they understood about the world. I may hope that there is something else after death, but I'm trying to live as if this is all I'll ever get. Inorbit, I'm so glad you're making progress. Just getting out of the ministry must be a HUGE load off your mind! It must also be a big relief to have someone you can talk to RL who can identify with where you are. Makes me wonder how many of these "committed Christians" are really inches away from apostasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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