Is This World Just A Big Game Of Pretend?

[Margee]

 

 

Well, my goal is to convince those millions of suffering people that they too can 'close their eyes' and live in 'alternate reality'. Then it will be all right for them as well !

 

How about you, Marge? Wouldn't you rather join us in seeing the reality of God who is love??

 

This is the game that I would rather not 'play' Jay.......

[mcdaddy]

What is the Gospel of Jesus Christ anyway? Acc to Paul its the whole 'he died for your sins thing". But acc. to Jesus himself, its either "repent and be baptized for the remission of sins" thing, or its the "obey the commandments to get eternal life thing", among others.

 

Theres no one, set, "gospel of jesus christ". it all depends on who you ask. Partly why theres thousands of denominations.

 

 

To me, the Gospel is about the cross of Jesus Christ. By dying on the cross as the lamb of God, he has won forgiveness for all our sins.

 

So you go with Paul's version of the gospel over Jesus' alleged self-described purpose/gospel. How typically Christian of you. Nobody wants to roll with what the dude allegedly said himself. Everyone likes to go with Mr. Of Tarsus.

[mcdaddy]

I happen to believe that Jesus has resurrected. So to me, all is OK.

 

For you Jay... but notfor millions of innocent people around the world. How is it possible that you can be so vain with this....do you walk around with your eyes closed? As long as you are 'saved' and can 'transend' things - that makes your little world, with your god alright?

 

 

This is not blind faith. I've examine the Biblical accounts and historical evidence in detail. I came to the conclusion that Jesus Christ did resurrect.

 

And what is your historical evidence pray tell?

[JayL]

I happen to believe that Jesus has resurrected. So to me, all is OK.

 

For you Jay... but notfor millions of innocent people around the world. How is it possible that you can be so vain with this....do you walk around with your eyes closed? As long as you are 'saved' and can 'transend' things - that makes your little world, with your god alright?

 

 

This is not blind faith. I've examine the Biblical accounts and historical evidence in detail. I came to the conclusion that Jesus Christ did resurrect.

 

And what is your historical evidence pray tell?

 

 

Let me reminds you of some historical facts.

 

 

1. Jesus Christ died as a condemned criminal. He was crucified which was the most severe and most shameful punishment for a criminal at the time. At the time of his crucifixion, all his disciples fled and none defended him. They all scattered and ran for their lives.

 

2. The Gospel account records Jesus crying out, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?? '

 

3. The Jewish temple authority who condemned Jesus to death were equally hostile to anyone who try to teach about him.

 

4. The fact is that 'Jesus as Messiah' idea met most crushing and irreversible end when Jesus was crucified and died. The end of story.

 

 

The question you have to investigate is why the belief in Jesus Christ as the Messiah got 'resurrected' !!

[JayL]

What is the Gospel of Jesus Christ anyway? Acc to Paul its the whole 'he died for your sins thing". But acc. to Jesus himself, its either "repent and be baptized for the remission of sins" thing, or its the "obey the commandments to get eternal life thing", among others.

 

Theres no one, set, "gospel of jesus christ". it all depends on who you ask. Partly why theres thousands of denominations.

 

 

To me, the Gospel is about the cross of Jesus Christ. By dying on the cross as the lamb of God, he has won forgiveness for all our sins.

 

So you go with Paul's version of the gospel over Jesus' alleged self-described purpose/gospel. How typically Christian of you. Nobody wants to roll with what the dude allegedly said himself. Everyone likes to go with Mr. Of Tarsus.

 

 

One reason could be Jesus spoke in parables and stories in less-than-transparent Aramaic colloquial language. Paul wrote in scholarly Greek and there was far less room for misunderstanding. If you really corner Christians, they will quietly admit that they still have troubles understanding some parables spoken by Jesus.

[JayL]

But unlike Lenin, God had a solution. The solution is Jesus Christ dying on the cross and creating a whole new reality.

Isn't that cute? God created a world of pain and suffering, and then eternal torture, and the only solution is that we must "believe" in a fairy tale instead of God talking directly to us. What a load of bullcrap.

 

 

Even if God talked directly to you, you probably would not believe it. Why? Because it does not fit into your worldview.

[bdp]

we are stuck with the tough reality - to do the best we can and then to die into oblivion.

 

 

 

Exactly - I'm fine with that. Your fear drove you elsewhere.

[bdp]

Have you ever been to Lakewood church under Joel Osteen?? It is a very happy place. Scientologists or muslims do not have anything remotely comparable.

 

Joel Osteen is a douchetard.

[mymistake]

Let me reminds you of some historical facts.

 

 

1. Jesus Christ died as a condemned criminal. He was crucified which was the most severe and most shameful punishment for a criminal at the time. At the time of his crucifixion, all his disciples fled and none defended him. They all scattered and ran for their lives.

 

 

Using objective evidence verify that Jesus Christ died, that he died as a condemned criminal, that he was crucified, the time of his crucifixion, and that he had disciples at that time. If you cannot verify it then it is not a fact and you don't know.

 

 

2. The Gospel account records Jesus crying out, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?? '

 

Yes it is a historical fact that a story has a character say something. How is that relevant? Should I quote Harry Potter or Luke Skywalker?

 

3. The Jewish temple authority who condemned Jesus to death were equally hostile to anyone who try to teach about him.

 

Use objective evidence to verify that the Jewish temple authority condemned Jesus to death. If you cannot then it is not a fact and you don't know.

 

4. The fact is that 'Jesus as Messiah' idea met most crushing and irreversible end when Jesus was crucified and died. The end of story.

 

You have not verified that Jesus even existed, let alone that he was crucified, or that he was thought to be any messiah. Please do so, then we can talk about the ramifications.

 

The question you have to investigate is why the belief in Jesus Christ as the Messiah got 'resurrected' !!

 

A more likely explanation was that it was invented rather than resurrected. Waiting to see the objective evidence that verifies these "facts". I'm sure like your "proof" you will want to keep it all to yourself.

[bdp]

 

The question you have to investigate is why the belief in Jesus Christ as the Messiah got 'resurrected'

 

Ask Constantine.

 

(removed your inane and superfluous exclamation points)

[mymistake]

But unlike Lenin, God had a solution. The solution is Jesus Christ dying on the cross and creating a whole new reality.

Isn't that cute? God created a world of pain and suffering, and then eternal torture, and the only solution is that we must "believe" in a fairy tale instead of God talking directly to us. What a load of bullcrap.

 

 

Even if God talked directly to you, you probably would not believe it. Why? Because it does not fit into your worldview.

 

Shut the fuck up you moron! First demonstrate with objective evidence that your God exists and directly talks to anybody before you project what you think would happen if such things actually could happen. Until you do that you are just masturbating.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

No it is not a make believe.

Do you believe that you choose whether or not to believe?

 

You need to have an encounter with God - born again experience, if you will - to be a committed Christian.

You just need to profess to Jesus that you believe, and that you put your trust in him, accepting him as your personal savior, to be a committed Christian. Believing that he is real precedes that.

 

You may call it 'make believe' because you do not experienced it. But if you start to go to church, participate in worship, Bible study, etc, you will see changes.

I've been to church. For 15 years, 3 times a week, I went to church. I read the entire Bible so many times over, I can't count it. I can actually in casual conversation, tell without a Bible on hand, every damn story in that book. I once believed so much, I felt that it was my duty to try to convince others. Don't tell me how to get to experience it because you say I haven't, because its insulting and assumes way too much.

 

I was once a devout fundamentalist Christian. I wanted to be a pastor up until I began to realize problems in the Bible.

 

You didn't answer my question. When I was a Christian, its interesting to note, I didn't choose to believe, I just did. My mom said he was real. This really old book said he was. Both had more authority than me, so I believed. When I got older, authority no longer sufficed for evidence.

 

On top of that, I study Near eastern history and religion (yeah, christianity of every possible kind falls under this category), so there's nothing you have to offer me on the subject that i probably don't already know. I'm an ex-c for a reason, because I used to be a C.

 

 

End3, my question is whether or not you choose to believe? How is that different from pretend/make believe? Is it different?

 

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the only solid hope for the 'transcend' you are looking for.

Take 10 steps back, he's already a Christian. No need to convert someone who is already in troll.

 

If Jesus has resurrected, then all is OK. If not, we are stuck with the tough reality - to do the best we can and then to die into oblivion.

Either way, we're stuck with a tough reality. Either way we'll do the best we can. As for die into oblivion, its a bit redundant. We can always prevent death once we get there technology, if we're not held back for "playing god".

 

 

Well, I like to think we who live in this 'alternate reality' are much happier than scientologists or muslims. Have you ever been to Lakewood church under Joel Osteen?? It is a very happy place. Scientologists or muslims do not have anything remotely comparable.

Nope, I'm pretty sure I've seen better than what Joel Osteen has to offer, and for free at that, in places with Islam, Hinduism, etc....

 

Why should I believe in a religion descended from Babylonian and Canaanite polytheism (i.e. the big 3 1-theisms) anyway?

[JayL]

 

You didn't answer my question. When I was a Christian, its interesting to note, I didn't choose to believe, I just did. My mom said he was real. This really old book said he was. Both had more authority than me, so I believed. When I got older, authority no longer sufficed for evidence.

 

 

 

That is right. You cannot simply go on the faith of your parents. Is the story of Jesus true or was it made up?? Did Jesus Christ really resurrect from death or was it all a lie? Did Jesus know what he was talking about or was he deluded?? These are the questions you have to figure out for yourself.

[agnosticator]

Until you do that you are just masturbating.

 

That's fundagelicalism in a "Nut"shell!

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

That is right. You cannot simply go on the faith of your parents.

I said that I believed because I was taught it was true. It was indeed my faith just as much as your faith is yours. My faith was much stronger than you'd be able to tell now.

 

Is the story of Jesus true or was it made up? Did Jesus Christ really resurrect from death or was it all a lie?

As far as I can tell, it was a myth. As for a lie, some might say the story was supposed to be metaphor. That Jesus never died to begin with, and the resurrection was in spirit only, therefore, never rose from the dead. If it was meant to be literal, then I'm inclined to believe so, that it is a lie; Or maybe he was a real person, and something really bizarre happened. Even if he did "die" and was found alive, research Haitian zombies, it wouldn't be anything special. Definitely not something you'd need to be god to do.

 

You can be put in such a coma state that you seem dead unless you're hooked to machines. Until certain chemicals wear off/return to normal.

 

Did Jesus know what he was talking about or was he deluded?

I don't know, we don't have anything written in his own words, now do we? Even you'll have to admit that the NT was written by others and not by him.

 

These are the questions you have to figure out for yourself.

 

See, your arguements aimed to get my guilt aren't useful against me. They've been tried and tried again. I've encountered your arguements so many times already, that its safe to say you just took them from someone else. Come up with your own reasons to believe, and your own apologetic arguements. I've done so when I was a believer. I had to. Just to keep faith. You should, before its too late, and you realize you don't have original ideas, that you're just repeating other peoples arguements.

[agnosticator]

I don't know, we don't have anything written in his own words, now do we? Even you'll have to admit that the NT was written by others and not by him.

 

That's what makes the whole merry go round funny, if it wasn't taken so seriously.

[mcdaddy]

Jay, when are you going to realize the bible is about the furthest thing one could have from objective scientific evidence???? I asked for evidence. You gave bible stories. That IS NOT EVIDENCE.

[JayL]

That is right. You cannot simply go on the faith of your parents.

I said that I believed because I was taught it was true. It was indeed my faith just as much as your faith is yours. My faith was much stronger than you'd be able to tell now.

 

 

Sorry, I missed your point. So once you had a strong faith and then you gave it up. What was the motivation? Perhaps others made fun of you for having faith? Or you decided scientific worldview made more sense to you? How did you end up giving up the faith? I do admit that it is hard to maintain faith when others do not share it.

[JayL]

Jay, when are you going to realize the bible is about the furthest thing one could have from objective scientific evidence???? I asked for evidence. You gave bible stories. That IS NOT EVIDENCE.

 

There are only historical evidence. The only good scientific evidence for truth of Christianity may be the Shroud of Turin.

[mymistake]

The only good scientific evidence for truth of Christianity may be the Shroud of Turin.

 

The SoT is a forgery. I guess Christianity is a forgery too.

[mcdaddy]

Jay, when are you going to realize the bible is about the furthest thing one could have from objective scientific evidence???? I asked for evidence. You gave bible stories. That IS NOT EVIDENCE.

 

 

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

There are only historical evidence. The only good scientific evidence for truth of Christianity may be the Shroud of Turin.

[mcdaddy]

Wrong again! There is NO historical evidence!!! Shroud of Turin doesn't prove shit. Even if it was 2000 years old, which it's not.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

Sorry, I missed your point. So once you had a strong faith and then you gave it up. What was the motivation?

I've already stated one of them. Here's a condensed list:

1) Realizing that the Bible wasn't what I thought it was (condensed from a book I could write about whats wrong with the Bible)

2) Having to face the fact that there is no evidence for God

3) I didn't really have a motivation to give it up. I struggled like hell not to give it up, my motivation was not wanting to go to hell and wanting to believe in an afterlife.

 

Perhaps others made fun of you for having faith?

That doesn't make you stop believing. It would make someone go underground. I find this insulting, to suggest that I would stop believing because I was a coward. Actually, I was never made fun of for having faith, I was discriminated against ever since I stopped having it though. Does that count?

 

Or you decided scientific worldview made more sense to you?

I was in middle school or early high school. I was of the mind that the two would be reconciled. I rejected the scientific worldview until after my deconversion.

 

I stopped believing because I realized that Christianity, and its entire premises, are utterly bullshit.

 

I do admit that it is hard to maintain faith when others do not share it.

I have selfconfidence, so I'm sorry to hear, but I don't understand what you go through. What others believe doesn't affect what I do. I've always been my own person. I do hope you gain confidence in what you see as reality, be it after deconversion or without deconversion, as that can be emotionally devastating. I've seen that in people with no sense of self, I have a friend with Borderline personality disorder. She struggles to have friends, and is uncomfortable when others don't share her beliefs, as it makes her feel intimidated sometimes.

[JayL]

I have selfconfidence, so I'm sorry to hear, but I don't understand what you go through. What others believe doesn't affect what I do. I've always been my own person.

 

 

I'd say you have hope. Being independent minded is a strength in being a Christian.

[JayL]

Sorry, I missed your point. So once you had a strong faith and then you gave it up. What was the motivation?

I've already stated one of them. Here's a condensed list:

1) Realizing that the Bible wasn't what I thought it was (condensed from a book I could write about whats wrong with the Bible)

2) Having to face the fact that there is no evidence for God

3) I didn't really have a motivation to give it up. I struggled like hell not to give it up, my motivation was not wanting to go to hell and wanting to believe in an afterlife.

 

 

 

If that was all - disappointed by the imperfections in the Bible and currently not seeing much evidence for God - I would have kept the faith mainly to avoid the hell ( just in case that hell is real even if it is only a minute possibility ).