Is This World Just A Big Game Of Pretend?

[par4dcourse]

End has these epiphanies at regular intervals. Always some convoluted "the dog is brown therefore god exists" type of argument which goes on until he's pissed everyone off and stalked off. Again.

[Guest end3]

I've asked this question a zillion times now of non-believers.....even in this thread.......demanded it even.....but still no answer, no just plain honest answer. I need trust to be a decent guy. You give me something that signals trust, and I will be that guy. Last night you said you were listening, and even went to the trouble of looking up NIST. And I said that I appreciated that and had re-newed respect. But then you went right back to your attitude which signals no trust to me. I don't do well with no trust. So, as I said, I would prefer you shoot me an honest answer and I will consider my retraction of my conclusions concerning you.

[mymistake]

I don't want to misunderstand you, so I would enjoy you actually discussing your thoughts regarding subjectivity vs science.

 

You have a lot of retracting to do first. Get on it.

I have nothing to retract.

 

Then you are going to be bitch slapped some more until you do.

 

Let's see, you admit you have no objective evidence. Need me to quote it? Post #258 "Do you not think I don't understand there is no objective evidence."

 

It is a demonstrable fact that the Bible is not a standard. It is a demonstrable fact that there is no standard for the concept of the Christian God.

 

You assert that the Holy Spirit and God the Father are some kind of standards.

 

You toss out broad insults aimed at everyone and specific ones at the people who tried to work with you. But you just know you are right because there is subjective reality as well. And we don't know squat about subjective.

 

But you handed me my ass because I don't know where you work?

 

Hello?

[Guest end3]

End has these epiphanies at regular intervals. Always some convoluted "the dog is brown therefore god exists" type of argument which goes on until he's pissed everyone off and stalked off. Again.

 

It''s ratings week.

[Guest Valk0010]

What does trust have to do with it?

[NeverAgainV]

What is the Gospel of Jesus Christ anyway? Acc to Paul its the whole 'he died for your sins thing". But acc. to Jesus himself, its either "repent and be baptized for the remission of sins" thing, or its the "obey the commandments to get eternal life thing", among others.

 

Theres no one, set, "gospel of jesus christ". it all depends on who you ask. Partly why theres thousands of denominations.

 

THANK YOU for asking that because xpastard's job is to "preach the gospel"...to pretty much the SAME group of people...30 years....e v e r y sunday, ....every wed. night. How many times does one need to hear the gospel?

Seriously, how stupid is this? the same shit over & over & over & over...I got so fucking sick of it. Looking at it from the outside now I see it exactly for what it is...namely,

a GIG. Why oh why does a "gospel preacher" continue to supposedly preach that "saving gospel" e v e r y friggen sunday?

The "gospel" sermons range in topics from & I'm quoting the names of these sermons....."relating to your pastor,-- knowing when to keep silence, --OBEDIENCE, --church attendance" & on & on never ending bullshit rules & proclivities of the pastor. It's a $$ making ego boosting gig.

I'll believe those damn preachers are honest & sincere when they don't take any $$$ to preach the supposed FREE gospel/good news...& when they pay taxes like the rest of us. After all, Jesus never owned a home...so why don't they attempt to live like their supposed savior. Then I just ....might...be convinced they have an ounce of sincerity. They really don't believe it or they wouldn't be living so contradictory to their own savior.

Also, while I'm ranting I have come to the conclusion that my xpastard at least does NOT believe in the holy spirit...because if he truly did, he wouldn't have the CONTROLLING & manipulative church system that he has. HE thinks HE is God's holy spirit because he does not trust others & loves to control & influence others. It's all a bunch of controlling, mind numbing bullshit. rant off/

[Guest end3]

Let's see, you admit you have no objective evidence. Need me to quote it? Post #258 "Do you not think I don't understand there is no objective evidence."

And this pposes faith how???

 

 

 

It is a demonstrable fact that the Bible is not a standard. It is a demonstrable fact that there is no standard for the concept of the Christian God.

 

You have certainty of this statement how??? What methodology?

 

You assert that the Holy Spirit and God the Father are some kind of standards.

Yes

You toss out broad insults aimed at everyone and specific ones at the people who tried to work with you. But you just know you are right because there is subjective reality as well. And we don't know squat about subjective.

I think you're really getting it. So as I said, in your opinion, is subjective reality fact or fantasy? What is this, zillionth and one.

 

But you handed me my ass because I don't know where you work?

No, you made an ass of yourself through conclusions and ignorance.

 

Bitch slap all you wish, but please go back to the aforementioned question. Just a plain honest answer would be great.

[Guest end3]

What does trust have to do with it?

 

Uh, working together to promote understanding? Creating a unified effort at this thing called life? Oh, I forgot Valk, facts and emotionless intellectual opinion are equivalent to maturity. Sorry.

[Guest Valk0010]

What does trust have to do with it?

 

Uh, working together to promote understanding? Creating a unified effort at this thing called life? Oh, I forgot Valk, facts and emotionless intellectual opinion are equivalent to maturity. Sorry.

I dunno, your going to have to work very very very hard to convince me of the truth of christianity. Its not got anything to do with maturity or emotion. IT IS WAS IS THE MOST CORRECT IDEA. What your saying is interesting to me, if you cut out the ad hom bullshit. But its you want to take the typically stuffy stupid christian high road. What are you going to start saying all of our knowledge is of the devil. Cut the bullshit and make your point. CLEARLY.

[Guest end3]

What does trust have to do with it?

 

Uh, working together to promote understanding? Creating a unified effort at this thing called life? Oh, I forgot Valk, facts and emotionless intellectual opinion are equivalent to maturity. Sorry.

I dunno, your going to have to work very very very hard to convince me of the truth of christianity. Its not got anything to do with maturity or emotion. IT IS WAS IS THE MOST CORRECT IDEA. What your saying is interesting to me, if you cut out the ad hom bullshit. But its you want to take the typically stuffy stupid christian high road. What are you going to start saying all of our knowledge is of the devil. Cut the bullshit and make your point. CLEARLY.

 

About the best suggestion anyone has made today Valk. I would be glad to talk.

[Guest Valk0010]

What does trust have to do with it?

 

Uh, working together to promote understanding? Creating a unified effort at this thing called life? Oh, I forgot Valk, facts and emotionless intellectual opinion are equivalent to maturity. Sorry.

I dunno, your going to have to work very very very hard to convince me of the truth of christianity. Its not got anything to do with maturity or emotion. IT IS WAS IS THE MOST CORRECT IDEA. What your saying is interesting to me, if you cut out the ad hom bullshit. But its you want to take the typically stuffy stupid christian high road. What are you going to start saying all of our knowledge is of the devil. Cut the bullshit and make your point. CLEARLY.

 

About the best suggestion anyone has made today Valk. I would be glad to talk.

Well then to start off clearly, state your position and how I am wrong and your still correct. I know it sounds like a rehash, but it would be easier for me to understand. Because between you calling everyone a dumbass for not understanding you, I may just totally not get it. Would you care for to explain it again from top to bottom clearly. And please answer what I have brought up about it in the process. Sorry it may seem like a rehash, but it would be good for clarity in my mind. Because the more we talk the more I am not getting it and its starting to sound like white noise to me. Fair?

[Guest end3]

What does trust have to do with it?

 

Uh, working together to promote understanding? Creating a unified effort at this thing called life? Oh, I forgot Valk, facts and emotionless intellectual opinion are equivalent to maturity. Sorry.

I dunno, your going to have to work very very very hard to convince me of the truth of christianity. Its not got anything to do with maturity or emotion. IT IS WAS IS THE MOST CORRECT IDEA. What your saying is interesting to me, if you cut out the ad hom bullshit. But its you want to take the typically stuffy stupid christian high road. What are you going to start saying all of our knowledge is of the devil. Cut the bullshit and make your point. CLEARLY.

 

About the best suggestion anyone has made today Valk. I would be glad to talk.

Well then to start off clearly, state your position and how I am wrong and your still correct. I know it sounds like a rehash, but it would be easier for me to understand. Because between you calling everyone a dumbass for not understanding you, I may just totally not get it. Would you care for to explain it again from top to bottom clearly. And please answer what I have brought up about it in the process. Sorry it may seem like a rehash, but it would be good for clarity in my mind. Because the more we talk the more I am not getting it and its starting to sound like white noise to me. Fair?

 

You are talking about the analogy I presented?

[Guest Valk0010]

What does trust have to do with it?

 

Uh, working together to promote understanding? Creating a unified effort at this thing called life? Oh, I forgot Valk, facts and emotionless intellectual opinion are equivalent to maturity. Sorry.

I dunno, your going to have to work very very very hard to convince me of the truth of christianity. Its not got anything to do with maturity or emotion. IT IS WAS IS THE MOST CORRECT IDEA. What your saying is interesting to me, if you cut out the ad hom bullshit. But its you want to take the typically stuffy stupid christian high road. What are you going to start saying all of our knowledge is of the devil. Cut the bullshit and make your point. CLEARLY.

 

About the best suggestion anyone has made today Valk. I would be glad to talk.

Well then to start off clearly, state your position and how I am wrong and your still correct. I know it sounds like a rehash, but it would be easier for me to understand. Because between you calling everyone a dumbass for not understanding you, I may just totally not get it. Would you care for to explain it again from top to bottom clearly. And please answer what I have brought up about it in the process. Sorry it may seem like a rehash, but it would be good for clarity in my mind. Because the more we talk the more I am not getting it and its starting to sound like white noise to me. Fair?

 

You are talking about the analogy I presented?

Yeah

[Guest end3]

I'll make an attempt in the morning Valk, about to go call it quits today. Thanks.

[Guest Valk0010]

I'll make an attempt in the morning Valk, about to go call it quits today. Thanks.

Rad

[mymistake]

I need trust to be a decent guy.

 

I ain't mad at you no more. Now I just feel sorry for you. End, trust is something earned. Maybe you should talk to someone about your choice to come to an ex-Christian website, proselytize your religion to people you know don't want it, then insult them, all when you need for them to trust you.

 

I don't have the right kind of training so I can't help you.

 

Personally I do not trust people when they demonstrate they are not worthy of trust. There are many people who operate that way so maybe you should think about that. If you can't get over that on your own then maybe you should seek out places where it won't be an issue. Best of luck to you.

[mymistake]

Let's see, you admit you have no objective evidence. Need me to quote it? Post #258 "Do you not think I don't understand there is no objective evidence."

And this pposes faith how???

 

I don't understand that question. The relevance of my statement to faith is that every faith has just as much objective evidence supporting it so worshiping Oden is just as legitimate as worshiping Ra which is just as legitimate as worshiping Jesus Christ. There is no way to demonstrate one religion is more right than the next. So as far as we know they are equally wrong.

 

 

It is a demonstrable fact that the Bible is not a standard. It is a demonstrable fact that there is no standard for the concept of the Christian God.

 

You have certainty of this statement how??? What methodology?

 

No originals. The early manuscripts are all over the place with both minor and major errors along with different content. Different churches endorsed different cannon. Now we have dozens or even hundreds of translations.

 

If a kilogram can weight anything from 9 grams to nine million grams and a gram could weigh anything from half of a real gram to five times a real gram and for both it was different in every jurisdiction then there would be no standard - just like the Bible. Same thing about God - hundreds or thousands of denominations each with a different take on what God is or what God wants. Thus no standard.

 

Thousands > 1

So Thousands =/= 1

 

So as I said, in your opinion, is subjective reality fact or fantasy?

 

Subjective is how each individual mind responds, reacts, perceives and imagines. It represents only the interpretation of an individual mind. Not reality. Objective reality is the thing to which our subjective responds.

 

 

No, you made an ass of yourself through conclusions and ignorance.

 

You have never handed me my ass. Your bragging about such was absurd. If my conclusions and ignorance are so bad why has nobody refuted what I wrote? You got the infinite wisdom of the creator of the universe on your side helping you out and I'm just a mere mortal. Shouldn't if be child's play for you to correct my so-called-errors? Yet you don't.

 

Like I said in my last post, I'm not mad about it anymore.

[Akheia]

Aww, the butthurt Christian thinks I'm a man-hater.

 

No, poor little End. I am not a man-hater. I am a misogyny-hater. Your Bible--and you--are filled to the brim with misogyny. So of course neither it nor you get a lot of respect from me. I have never once said anything derogatory about men, because I don't think they are inferior or superior to women. If you can prove otherwise, then I'll happily apologize. But it's a nice ego defense, isn't it? It couldn't be that I show animosity toward a misogynist because he is, well, misogynistic, could it? NO... it must be because I just hate men!

 

It's interesting that you can't refute my arguments, so you attack me personally with yet more lies. "One billion.." .. seriously, wtf was that? You don't understand something so clearly GOD DID IT? What a sorry, lame-ass, weak, pathetic sort of justification that is. You have no idea how to build analogies, and no idea how to show your faith is superior to the thousands of less-harmful faiths out there. I don't need to prove my god(s) to you, because I don't particularly give a shit if you believe the way I do or not. But when you try to tell me that you're right and I'm wrong, then you need to prove your case. You cannot. Sorry, just a fact. And it's not my, or anybody else's, responsibility to educate you. I refuse, because you are a grown adult and if you really wanted to know why you're stupidly wrong and willfully ignorant, you'd go out and learn why. You don't get to put the responsibility for educating yourself on other people. Maybe that flies in Christian-land, but it won't with rational adults. Like me. So if that makes me a man-hater, then say whatever you must to help yourself sleep at night when your rectum burns.

 

Do you guys not realize that End's done it again? Because he absolutely cannot contribute to the actual topic, he's got all you guys running around chasing his attacks and fibs. He won't answer the actual question because he cannot, so he's started a red-herring topic instead.

[bornagainathiest]

I don't mind winning. I am disappointed that y'all aren't bright enough to understand what I am discussing. It's a shallow victory, but a victory none the less.

 

Pyrrhic victories, End.

 

I am disappointed that I'll never know if you're bright enough to understand what that means.

 

BAA.

[bornagainathiest]

Answer this if you dare have the gonads.....Can everthing in this reality be explained with facts?

 

Not directed at me...

 

...but I do have the gonads.

 

No End. Not everything in this reality can be explained with facts. But not everything has to be, as you are trying to falsely assert.

 

You don't have to know everything about the quantum-scale behavior of electrons in your computer to use it.

You don't have to know everything about the proton-proton reactions in the Sun's core to enjoy it's warmth and light.

You don't have to know everything about the synapses in your brain for you to be sentient, self-aware being.

 

Yet, there are factual, scientific explanations that cover a lot about these things. We know that these facts are real and valuable because they work. They help us construct theories and models that make accurate and confirmed predictions about the behavior computers, stars and brains. They also influence every aspect of our daily lives.

 

Your comfortable, technological 21st century life is defined first and foremost by the very science you are trying to discredit. So, if you are happy to reap the benefits of something, while denying it's influence over you, what would you call that, End? (Hint: The word you're looking for is h*******y.)

 

Going back to your non-question... "Can everything in this reality be explained with facts?" ...are you a sock-puppet manifestation of Rayskidude, by any chance?

 

Pulling this kind of stunt was his kind of low and contemptible trick.

Set up an impossible question for your opponents and then when can't answer it declare victory!

You know full well as you write it, that's it's an un-answerable question, but you go ahead anyway.

You also know that it's based on a false notion (if everything cannot be explained by X, Y must therefore be true), but that doesn't stop you either.

Nope.

 

The honest and open search for truth can go fuck itself! All that matters is that you 'win'!

Dealing fairly and respectfully with others? Ditto. 'Winning' is everything!

It doesn't matter to you how you do it, so long as you 'win'!

Behaving with integrity? Fuck that! Gotta 'win'!

Always having the last word is 'winning'!

End always 'wins'... always!

 

You can even see yourself in action, here...

(around the 2:20 mark)

 

It's really quite simple, End.

 

Every time you sacrifice everything to get the 'win', you lose.

 

BAA.

[owen652]

go fuck yourself?

uh.. I was always down on myself when i was a christian for not being loving enough or forgiving enough etc etc... but I would never have said something like that to ANYone who disagreed with my beliefs, no matter what they said. Least of all on a forum where you have time to compose yourself and actually think about what you are saying.

sorry, but you are a total failure as a christian because of that, and it invalidates everything you say. I suggest finding a new religion that is a better fit for someone like you. Islam comes immediately to mind.

[Guest end3]

I need trust to be a decent guy.

 

I ain't mad at you no more. Now I just feel sorry for you. End, trust is something earned. Maybe you should talk to someone about your choice to come to an ex-Christian website, proselytize your religion to people you know don't want it, then insult them, all when you need for them to trust you.

 

I don't have the right kind of training so I can't help you.

 

Personally I do not trust people when they demonstrate they are not worthy of trust. There are many people who operate that way so maybe you should think about that. If you can't get over that on your own then maybe you should seek out places where it won't be an issue. Best of luck to you.

 

I appreciate the empathy, but would ask you answer the question....subjective reality, fact or fantasy? Something simple would be good.

[Guest end3]

Not directed at me...

 

...but I do have the gonads.

 

No End. Not everything in this reality can be explained with facts. But not everything has to be, as you are trying to falsely assert.

 

 

Now you say we don't have to understand? Is this scientific woo? I gotcha, theories are enough.....Theories=faith?

[Guest end3]

Aww, the butthurt Christian thinks I'm a man-hater.

 

No, poor little End. I am not a man-hater. I am a misogyny-hater. Your Bible--and you--are filled to the brim with misogyny. So of course neither it nor you get a lot of respect from me. I have never once said anything derogatory about men, because I don't think they are inferior or superior to women. If you can prove otherwise, then I'll happily apologize. But it's a nice ego defense, isn't it? It couldn't be that I show animosity toward a misogynist because he is, well, misogynistic, could it? NO... it must be because I just hate men!

 

It's interesting that you can't refute my arguments, so you attack me personally with yet more lies. "One billion.." .. seriously, wtf was that? You don't understand something so clearly GOD DID IT? What a sorry, lame-ass, weak, pathetic sort of justification that is. You have no idea how to build analogies, and no idea how to show your faith is superior to the thousands of less-harmful faiths out there. I don't need to prove my god(s) to you, because I don't particularly give a shit if you believe the way I do or not. But when you try to tell me that you're right and I'm wrong, then you need to prove your case. You cannot. Sorry, just a fact. And it's not my, or anybody else's, responsibility to educate you. I refuse, because you are a grown adult and if you really wanted to know why you're stupidly wrong and willfully ignorant, you'd go out and learn why. You don't get to put the responsibility for educating yourself on other people. Maybe that flies in Christian-land, but it won't with rational adults. Like me. So if that makes me a man-hater, then say whatever you must to help yourself sleep at night when your rectum burns.

 

Do you guys not realize that End's done it again? Because he absolutely cannot contribute to the actual topic, he's got all you guys running around chasing his attacks and fibs. He won't answer the actual question because he cannot, so he's started a red-herring topic instead.

 

Superiority. huh, let's take the long jump. Or how about the high jump, or the 100 meter dash. I guess we are measuring superiority by what?

[Guest end3]

Subjective is how each individual mind responds, reacts, perceives and imagines. It represents only the interpretation of an individual mind. Not reality. Objective reality is the thing to which our subjective responds.

 

 

Our thoughts aren't real, but then they become real once I transfer them to this keyboard? Isn't that kinda like faith without works? Do I need to flesh out that thought so you can make the mental leap?