Did Leaving Xianity Change Your Political Views?

[Akheia]

I wonder if some smart cookie in the Republican party will take a hard look at the deconversion numbers and start pushing a more secular agenda? If 10%+ of the country is flat-out atheist and 30%+ aren't very religious anyway, that's a solid 1/3 of the country that doesn't care about the fundagelical party line.

[Vigile]

I wonder if some smart cookie in the Republican party will take a hard look at the deconversion numbers and start pushing a more secular agenda? If 10%+ of the country is flat-out atheist and 30%+ aren't very religious anyway, that's a solid 1/3 of the country that doesn't care about the fundagelical party line.

 

What makes the religious right a powerful voting bloc is their propensity to make it to the polls. People who don't identify strongly with a particular group are much less reliable in terms of marketing message and organization, so getting them to the polls is a bit like herding cats.

 

If you notice though, both parties tone down their extreme rhetoric after the primaries. During the primaries they try to lock in their bases, such as the religious right. During the general election, they try to appeal more to the groups you mention here; or at least do their best not to alienate them.

[RankStranger]

Jesus and I broke up for the last time when I was 13- long before I had any political opinions. But I still managed to be a rabid right-winger 'til I was around 25. It was the culture I was brought up in. Around 2003-2004, the Iraq war and other transparent stupidity promoted by the Republicans forced me to re-think much of what I believed politically. I went through a 'political deconversion' that was not unlike what christians go through when they lose their faith. I lost my political faith.

 

These days I've become cynical about politics, and don't really identify with any major (or minor) party. It's weird 'cause I still watch politics like a normal man watches football- and I enjoy debating the subject. After voting Republican/Libertarian for all of my young adult life, I actually voted for Obama in 2008 as the lesser of two evils. Not sure what I'll do this year, as I'm not at all happy with either party. I still think the Republicans are particularly heinous these days, but I'm not impressed with Obama either.

 

I could ALMOST identify as a Libertarian- I agree with lots of their stated positions. Problem is that I don't agree with their brand of boot-licking, money-worshiping capitalism. They can't/won't recognize that our current system that we call capitalism is inherently authoritarian, and is NOT synonymous with 'freedom' or non-aggression. And no, I don't have a better system to point to. But I know authoritarian bullshit when I see it, and I won't support it.

 

So there you have it. I don't like anybody and they don't like me. When I take a political orientation quiz I generally score as 'left-libertarian'... and may be that fits. I don't know. The problem is that I've never met a left-libertarian in real life, and those few that I meet online seem to talk about a mish-mash of socialism and economic freedom. I'm not railing against it- I just don't get it, and I haven't been all that impressed with what little experience I've had with socialism.

 

Really I don't think any political system that has ever existed or will ever exist is gonna suit me. When you get people in large enough groups, authoritarian policies are inevitable. I don't know if they're necessary in order to control masses of people, or if they're an inevitable out-growth of masses of people. Either way I don't like it- but there's nothing I can do about it seeings how 90% of humanity seems to constantly strive for more rules, more laws, more control, more punishment, etc. I see no option except to avoid sticking my neck out and just bitch from the sidelines.

[Vigile]

They can't/won't recognize that our current system that we call capitalism is inherently authoritarian, and is NOT synonymous with 'freedom' or non-aggression.

“…everyone but an idiot knows that the lower classes must be kept poor, or they will never be industrious.”

—Arthur Young; 1771

[Akheia]

At this point I'm just aiming for the candidate who'll do the least damage to Americans' civil liberties and to the essential separation between church and state.

[Zaphod]

My original shift in politics started with coming out as gay, which preceded my apostasy by a few years. Today my primary goal in forming my political views is to make sure they are as much a product of critical thinking as my views on religion are. Sometimes I take a stance that just "feels" right when I perceive a lack of solid evidence in either direction, but when I'm arguing those issues I try very hard to remind myself that I could be wrong and need to keep an open mind. I think teaching creationism in public school science classes and abortion are two issues that are directly attributable to my deconversion. I recently discovered that I'm still a bit squeamish about the idea of abortion, but I'm definitely pro-choice.

[mymistake]

I was an ultra conservative up until the time I lost respect for the Bible. Now I'm politically in the middle.

[TortillaLips]

Lots of dillusions here.

 

First off, although Jesus wanted us to help the poor, and provide for them, this does not somehow justify voting left/liberal/democrat. Jesus message was not to a government. His message was to the individual, so to suggest that Christians are somehow remiss for not following Christ by not voting liberal is to NOT understand what he said, and not to understand the left. Christ never wanted his teaching forced onto us by a government. He wanted us individuals to do something. So therefor, to be a good Christian, one does not have to vote libral.

 

Since I left my Christianity behind, my politics have actually move far, far right, to the point that I am no longer a republican, but rather I have become a Libertarian. If one truly stops being a Christian, one also must dismiss altruism, and embrace selfishness. If we had more selfish people in this world, it would be a far better place. To vote left is to support stealing money from one group to fund another, and often that other group did little to deserve entitlements.

 

Entitlements are evil and are to be avoided by all Humanists, and Athiests.

 

Since leaving my Christian roots, I editfy only one person, and that is me. Now I can and have choosen to help others, but to be forced to by a government is to belie the logical superior brain that got us out of the Christian bool sheet.

[VacuumFlux]

If one truly stops being a Christian, one also must dismiss altruism, and embrace selfishness.

 

I don't quite see how that follows, and I think I'm probably used to a different form of christianity than the one you got away from. The form of christianity that I grew up in may have said "god is love" and told me that I was supposed to reflect that love, but those words never meant much, and love was always balanced by "justice" and holiness (set-apart-ness). I was raised that to believe that god tells me to hate gays, god tells me to hate liberals who tolerate or even *gasp* encourage a non-christian culture in the USA, and that god wants me to feel something between pity and hate towards people who rejected the "right" form of christianity. I am a naturally empathic person, and part of my reason for rejecting christianity is that it was telling me to be LESS altruistic than I wanted to be. I am now free to like the people I like without being afraid that god will hate me for contaminating myself with undesirables.

[TortillaLips]

If one truly stops being a Christian, one also must dismiss altruism, and embrace selfishness.

 

I don't quite see how that follows, and I think I'm probably used to a different form of christianity than the one you got away from. The form of christianity that I grew up in may have said "god is love" and told me that I was supposed to reflect that love, but those words never meant much, and love was always balanced by "justice" and holiness (set-apart-ness). I was raised that to believe that god tells me to hate gays, god tells me to hate liberals who tolerate or even *gasp* encourage a non-christian culture in the USA, and that god wants me to feel something between pity and hate towards people who rejected the "right" form of christianity. I am a naturally empathic person, and part of my reason for rejecting christianity is that it was telling me to be LESS altruistic than I wanted to be. I am now free to like the people I like without being afraid that god will hate me for contaminating myself with undesirables.

 

Nothing wrong with you being empathic. The thing is, if you understood and read the bible, you would find that Jesus never told anyone to hate gays, hate liberals, hate anyone. You think this because you were told to hate by fake stupid Christians who give you their own opinions and not that of Christ. I reject christianity as much as you do, but lets be fair and truthful about what Jesus said/did.

 

So be empathetic, and be happy, but don't force me to give my own hard earn money away...by all means, get your YOUR checkbooka and write checks to any and all charities and those in need, but give YOUR money because when you vote left, you are forcing others to give theirs and that is immoral.

 

I'm glad that like me, you don't hate, and that is great :-)

[Paine]

They can't/won't recognize that our current system that we call capitalism is inherently authoritarian, and is NOT synonymous with 'freedom' or non-aggression.

“…everyone but an idiot knows that the lower classes must be kept poor, or they will never be industrious.”

—Arthur Young; 1771

 

Our current system of "capitalism" (sic) is precisely what is giving FREE MARKET Capitalism a bad name. We have never known FREE MARKET Capitalism in our lifetime. Just CRONY Capitalism.

 

In much the same way that all this "social justice" bullshit gives the very PROPER NEED for equal rights for human of all colors (and I am convinced Booker T.Washington would bitch slap Jesse Jackson)------SO IT GOES WITH "capitalism".

 

GM had to be "bailed out" because it was too big to fail? Um>>> NO>>>> it was because in order to ingratiate himself to the single largest voting block with the LARGEST PURSE (AFL-CIO!) Obama stuck his damned stick in where it doesn't belong and now the TAX PAYERS ARE SUBSIDIZING A DOG of a car that nobody wants....the Chevy VOLT.

 

Witness Jeffrey Immelt, The Whore of GE, in bed with BOTH Administrations over these goddamned mercury weeping poisonous CFL lightbulbs. He saw a way that his company could take back the profit from USING the bulb from the power companies by wrapping his scheme in a fucking warm fuzzy "GREEN" bullshit blanket (aided by NBC...owned by GE!) and charging UP FRONT what SHould be amortized over years and years---the cost of powering the bulb...AND moving the production of a de facto MANDATED PRODUCT to CHINA to boot! Bye bye American jobs, eh comrade? Get his buddy GEORGE BUSH to make PERFECTLY GOOD LIGHTBULBS ILLEGAL, and now Jeffrey Immelt has a CRONY CAPITALIST product that we are ALL FORCED TO BUY, >>>EVEN THE VERY POOREST AMONG US, don't forget>>>>

 

A PRODUCT THAT WILL EVENTUALLY POISON OUR LOCAL WATER TABLES. Because they SURE AS FUCK don't have landfills in The Hamptons!!!!

 

Where will the environmentalists on the Left who love those damned status symbol Greenie bulbs stand on the "social justice" issue of poisoning poor neighborhoods and WHOLE AQUIFERS with their overpriced Chinese lightsticks?

 

So, please, NO MISTAKING "Capitalism" with CRONY CAPITALISM, which has existed in this country since JP Morgan, that bastard Carnegie, and that asshole Vanderbilt realized that lobbyists were good for putting their competition out of business.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

So, to the point......NO. Same political beliefs I have always held. No Jesus. All Ayn Rand, Thomas Paine and Ludwig von Mises.

 

1. My best friend is gay. I have loved him since the third grade... since before I knew what "gay" meant....since before there was AIDS and I knew to lay awake and worry for him. He is closeted in our Southern town and I fully expect to find him hanging by his own hand from the light pole in front of our old church any day now. Gays are born the way they are, and I say let 'em get married and experience the miseries of "THE MARRIAGE PENALTY" on April 15th like the rest of us. Divorce is a fun cultural misery in which they are welcome to partake.

 

2.Black/ Brown/ Yellow/ Purple skin does not make you inferior, but allowing a race hustler disguised as a PREACHER to do your THINKING for you makes you a FUCKING IDIOT.

 

3. Women have just as much right to equal pay as a man does, just don't take three years off to have kids every five years and expect pay parity.

 

4. Child Labor is an abhorrent, cruel product of underdeveloped countries. We are neither an UN- nor and UNDER- developed country so the need for a soft money funnel to the DNC "labor" union in all but very specific cases is completely unnecessary. Your boss risked capital, and HE owns your job. Go find another one if you don't like the one you have, or start your own business to compete with your old boss, but don't believe for a minute he owes you (what equates to) $142 /hr and two smoke breaks per, retirement with 75% pay at age 55 for placing a bolt in an engine on an assembly line.

 

5. Charity is good. I give to the causes that I choose to support with money that I EARNED, and thereby allocate accordingly according to MY charitable inclinations. And I have MANY. I do not need the GOVERNMENT to tell me how they will use the money they FORCIBLY TAKE FROM ME every April 15th (try NOT paying your taxes and see how fast the goons take all you have) better than I can. "Its for the chiiiiildren". The FORCIBLE transfer of wealth is NOT CHARITY >>>ITS SOCIALISM AND I DONT GIVE A GREEN GODDAMN IF THAT IS WHAT YOU PREFER, but the cold facts of it remain>>>> SOCIALISM.IS.NOT.THE.WAY.OUR.COUNTRY.WAS.ORGANIZED!!!! Amend the Constitution, if you like, but until you do, you can't have Universal Health Care and free abortion on demand and myriad other shit that taxpayers shouldn't have to fund for your lazy ass.

 

6. I like Science. Science lead me out of the Jesus Cult, AS IT DID YOU, if you are here on this board. ABORTION is the extinguishing of a LIFE FORM. A "potential" human, that, I will not argue, so my feelings on the AFTER THE FACT part of abortion are not one way or the other. What I DO KNOW is that my appropriated tax dollars should not go to fund a BAD CHOICE. Because the SCIENCE OF IT REMAINS>>>>ABSTINENCE WORKS 100% of the time its tried. And please>>>>>SAVE THE STRAWMAN argument about the little girl raped by her uncle, and the poor woman too stupid to find a gun and kill her abusive husband she just can't bear to prosecute every time he beats the shit out of her....there are exceptions for everything. But if its YOUR CHOICE, RIGHT? Then its YOUR MONEY THAT GETS TO FUND IT.

 

So......I am a Libertarian because I think. Feeling is for hysterical Christ-Bots...isn't that what everyone around here always says?

 

Go ahead and ban me....I am well aware that Freedom of Speech is not a right on a private message board.

 

And be advised.....when all you can do is MERELY sling nasty epithets at me without addressing the content of my argument, you have lost the debate, because clearly you are no longer honoring the LOGIC everyone around here C*L*A*I*M*S to hold so dear.

[Vigile]

Hard to dispute that with all them large caps and all, but my quote comes from the same school of thought as the king of capitalism, Adam Smith himself. Don't get me wrong. I'm a capitalist myself. I just like some restraint on it and some checks and balances so that people who think like you don't end up actually finding out what they wish for isn't quite so pretty as they think it might be.

 

One question, what's up with the paranoia amongst those of your particular political persuasion? This board isn't likely a true sampling, but at least here there is a clear pattern.

[Paine]

Hard to dispute that with all them large caps and all, but my quote comes from the same school of thought as the king of capitalism, Adam Smith himself. Don't get me wrong. I'm a capitalist myself. I just like some restraint on it and some checks and balances so that people who think like you don't end up actually finding out what they wish for isn't quite so pretty as they think it might be.

 

One question, what's up with the paranoia amongst those of your particular political persuasion? This board isn't likely a true sampling, but at least here there is a clear pattern.

 

I have a caps stutter because I am too damned lazy to use the ITALICS.... Maybe I should get an handicapped hang-tag. I own it.

[★ Citsonga ★]

I reject christianity as much as you do, but lets be fair and truthful about what Jesus said/did.

 

Nobody really knows what Jesus actually did say and do, or even if he really existed, for that matter. All we have about him are ancient contradictory accounts written decades after the alleged events by superstitious people.

[Wings]

Like some others here, the shift in my political views coincided with and ultimately was one of the factors contributing to my deconversion.

I grew up in an extremely conservative and member-focused church who subtley impressed that people from "our" church were true and right and EVERYONE else was "the other." I cringe now when I think about the things I mimicked my parents' and leaders saying... from homophobic comments to judgement of other religions/cultures, to complaints about politics. I'm from Canada, where we generally do like/accept our gov't to be involved in our lives, but from the conservative perspective the only thing I/we wanted the government involved in was control over reproductive rights.

 

When I went to university (from having gone to private christian schools), I actually learned to think. I learned to critically evaluate different ideas, I learned the language and methodology associated with interpreting the world and was given the ability to articulate thoughts. Slowly I began to learn about marginalization and gender inequalities etc. etc. and thought, what the fuck, no one deserves control over my reproductive rights! That's just one small example, but gradually my social/political views began to change and become more liberal. Eventually, I couldn't reconcile these views with my religious views and that started me on the path to deconverting...

 

Okay, I should admit that my academic background is history, sociology and public admin (too much school!), so I could hijack this thread and go forever about my public policy views, so I'll stop. But ultimately, I like to think my liberal self is tempered by my old conservative self and at the end of the day I'll think critically about the issues and just go with what's smart.

And it gives me hope that I think most people here will do that and that'll be real progress!

[Mike D]

My views were always a bit libertarian, even when I was a Christian.

 

I guess I was sort of social Darwinist as well - I thought everyone should be able to do what they wanted as long as it didn't infringe on the rights of others, and if you ended up killing yourself in the process, that was good because it purged the lesser evolved out of the gene pool.

 

Conservatives want to ban sex and drugs. Liberals want to ban guns and smoking.

 

How about we don't ban anything and both parties leave me the fuck alone?

 

That about sums it up....

[Vigile]

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, but I suspect it's true of more than just me. The process of deconverting made me realize that the world has many types of mass deception traps, religion being only one. This caused me to be more wary and to examine all of my beliefs in a much deeper way. As a result, I've probably deconverted from political paradigms in many ways just like I've deconverted from christianity. It's left me a cynic of sorts.

[Mike D]

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, but I suspect it's true of more than just me. The process of deconverting made me realize that the world has many types of mass deception traps, religion being only one.

Yes. Religion, politics, philosophy, education, etc. All have their own fundyism and groupthink.

 

I actually thought the term "free thinker" applied to all those things, not just religion. Later I found out that was wrong....

[★ Citsonga ★]

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, but I suspect it's true of more than just me. The process of deconverting made me realize that the world has many types of mass deception traps, religion being only one. This caused me to be more wary and to examine all of my beliefs in a much deeper way. As a result, I've probably deconverted from political paradigms in many ways just like I've deconverted from christianity. It's left me a cynic of sorts.

 

Similar situation here. After realizing that I was duped by a myth for decades due to being fed misinformation, I know that it could happen again in other areas. Thus, while I ditched the Republican party, I have not been able to latch onto the Democrat or any other party. I know where I stand on several social issues, but when it comes to economics, I realize that I don't know enough to exempt myself from deception. Thus, I don't know where I stand fiscally.

[GodlessX]

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, but I suspect it's true of more than just me. The process of deconverting made me realize that the world has many types of mass deception traps, religion being only one.

Yes. Religion, politics, philosophy, education, etc. All have their own fundyism and groupthink.

 

I actually thought the term "free thinker" applied to all those things, not just religion. Later I found out that was wrong....

 

I don't think that you are wrong. I have been studying cults and the indoctrination process for quite some time. One of the things that the GP tends to do is think of the term 'cult' as only being a religious organization. That is one area in which my thinking expanded. The type of indoctrination that cults use do not only exist within a theological framework. There are political cults, pseudoscience cults, MLMs can be very cultish, work envirinments, families, therapy groups even. Basically any situtaion in which a particular person and/or doctrine can be used to establish a "truth" that is considered indisputable by that particular group.

 

I consider myself a skeptic rationalist. First, everything can be and should be questioned. Second, everything most likely has a rational natural explanation. Even is we never discover it -- it's probably there. And -- I do have to question my own skepticism.

[Stamps1962]

In my case it was my shift to the Left that caused me to question my religious beliefs. This was way back in the late 1960's; My particular brand of Baptist churches were all for the war in Vietnam, and for me the final straw was when I heard and saw how some of them reacted tom the murders of RFK and MLK.. ("Well the Lord took care of those commies!"). My deconversion was easy after that. .

[Vigile]

In my case it was my shift to the Left that caused me to question my religious beliefs. This was way back in the late 1960's; My particular brand of Baptist churches were all for the war in Vietnam, and for me the final straw was when I heard and saw how some of them reacted tom the murders of RFK and MLK.. ("Well the Lord took care of those commies!"). My deconversion was easy after that. .

 

That's really interesting to read. I didn't realize this type of culture existed in the churches that far back. It seemed like a new phenomena to me that didn't really get rolling until Pat Robertson and the Christian Coalition started prodding and organizing the churches toward political activism.