jblueep Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 So, last night my mother in law (Pat) fell down and broke her wrist. My FIL (Mike) can't see to drive at night and Pat needed to go to the emergency room. They live about 45 miles from us, and then the hospital is another 30 miles from there. My son (Nate) and I were glad to help, but it made for a long night (we got back home at 4am this morning). I knew that Pat had probably been drinking, but we don't judge her. They needed our help and they are family. No big deal. It's what families do. Pat and Mike were grateful, and Mike sent the following email this morning... ...Last night was a lot easier to live thru with Jason and Nate there, wow what a blessing they were to both of us, so thankful they were there. They were what we believers talk about all the time "Jesus with skin on". Nate didn't say much but just the fact he was there was encouraging, and Jason was so loving to Mom and understanding and patient with her. Well to be honest there are no words that can make you understand how we both felt I was totally surprised they agreed to come get us and once here they were so loving and didn't make either of us feel guilty, they were here to help and that is what they did... It's a genuine thank you, and I appreciated it, but a couple of things in the email reminded me how much xians can devalue themselves and others, e.g. "what a blessing" and "Jesus with skin on". I laughed when I read the "Jesus with skin on" part as I have been an atheist for six months and they have no idea. Turns out I'm the same nice guy I was before Examples of xianese devaluations off the top of my head: "I could have never done it without god" "I don't know where I'd be without god" "Thank god for you" "Thank you for letting god use you" "You can't really love without Jesus" Xians are taught to not take credit for their own and not give credit to others' accomplishments..."That would be prideful". Unfortunately, the other side of that coin is that xians often won't take responsibility or hold others responsible for their failures. I never fully bought into this way of thinking as an xian, but I definitely did to a certain degree. I think many xians are wacky in how far they take it. It's good to know as a non-believer, that: If I help you, it was me, not god. If I love you, it was me, not god. If I screw up, it was me, not the devil. Any thoughts on this subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Amen brother! God must have moved your spirit to speak so open. Okay now that I feel the need to wash...... This is one of the myriad reason I left. No one took personal responsibility for anything. The classic one was my father was dating a woman he met in his new church years after my parents divorced. She later broke up with him and said "God said they shouldn't be together". He was crushed. I had to choke a laugh down and said that in my experience when people say stuff like that it's because they want to do the action but don't want the responsibility. He half heartedly agreed. God the greatest avoidance of reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yrth Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 It's good to know as a non-believer, that: If I help you, it was me, not god. If I love you, it was me, not god. If I screw up, it was me, not the devil. Any thoughts on this subject? Yeah, it is incredibly annoying. It was a big reason behind my deconversion too -- wildly implausible ideas about causation. My MIL uses this language all the time, all I can do is smile and nod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 J, this is a page out of my book. I used to always devalue all of my good qualities and say that they were "God"; I suck "without God", etc. Now, as an atheist, I still have no self-esteem. I still can't take credit for anything I do or accomplish! I also persist in a perception of low self-efficacy, although I am improving in that department in leaps and bounds, now that I know I don't have to wait for God to reveal something to me. Funny thing, I am viewed as very successful by everyone but I see myself as a complete failure. My SIL (hardcore fundy) is like me but even worse. Whenever she does something well and I compliment her, she says, "Thank you Jesus, he really helped me" or "I couldn't have done it without God's help". This helplessness and low self-efficacy often leads to poor decision-making/no decision-making and then people wonder why their life sucks. Reminds me of this: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/michael_moore/weak.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yrth Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 J, this is a page out of my book. I used to always devalue all of my good qualities and say that they were "God"; I suck "without God", etc. Now, as an atheist, I still have no self-esteem. I still can't take credit for anything I do or accomplish! I also persist in a perception of low self-efficacy, although I am improving in that department in leaps and bounds, now that I know I don't have to wait for God to reveal something to me. Funny thing, I am viewed as very successful by everyone but I see myself as a complete failure. My SIL (hardcore fundy) is like me but even worse. Whenever she does something well and I compliment her, she says, "Thank you Jesus, he really helped me" or "I couldn't have done it without God's help". This helplessness and low self-efficacy often leads to poor decision-making/no decision-making and then people wonder why their life sucks. Reminds me of this: http://www.infidels....moore/weak.html Pos, I am the exact same way! I blame my parents' Calvinist theology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Just a thought... do you think that xians who tear others down do that because they are not allowed to feel good about themselves? I'm not allowed to be prideful and I'm gonna make sure others don't feel good either. Sometimes it seems that way to me. I however believe that some people who are xians are actually good people and I really wonder why they buy religion's lies. I always hope they see the truth and leave the religion. Kind of like you did J. Always was a good person and finally left xianity. I had an amazing boss like that. Really smart and compassionate. Thankfully she was not a fundie and did not believe in shoving her religion on others. I wish she too would leave the religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 So, last night my mother in law (Pat) fell down and broke her wrist. My FIL (Mike) can't see to drive at night and Pat needed to go to the emergency room. They live about 45 miles from us, and then the hospital is another 30 miles from there. My son (Nate) and I were glad to help, but it made for a long night (we got back home at 4am this morning). I knew that Pat had probably been drinking, but we don't judge her. They needed our help and they are family. No big deal. It's what families do. Pat and Mike were grateful, and Mike sent the following email this morning... ...Last night was a lot easier to live thru with Jason and Nate there, wow what a blessing they were to both of us, so thankful they were there. They were what we believers talk about all the time "Jesus with skin on". Nate didn't say much but just the fact he was there was encouraging, and Jason was so loving to Mom and understanding and patient with her. Well to be honest there are no words that can make you understand how we both felt I was totally surprised they agreed to come get us and once here they were so loving and didn't make either of us feel guilty, they were here to help and that is what they did... It's a genuine thank you, and I appreciated it, but a couple of things in the email reminded me how much xians can devalue themselves and others, e.g. "what a blessing" and "Jesus with skin on". I laughed when I read the "Jesus with skin on" part as I have been an atheist for six months and they have no idea. Turns out I'm the same nice guy I was before Examples of xianese devaluations off the top of my head: "I could have never done it without god" "I don't know where I'd be without god" "Thank god for you" "Thank you for letting god use you" "You can't really love without Jesus" Xians are taught to not take credit for their own and not give credit to others' accomplishments..."That would be prideful". Unfortunately, the other side of that coin is that xians often won't take responsibility or hold others responsible for their failures. I never fully bought into this way of thinking as an xian, but I definitely did to a certain degree. I think many xians are wacky in how far they take it. It's good to know as a non-believer, that: If I help you, it was me, not god. If I love you, it was me, not god. If I screw up, it was me, not the devil. Any thoughts on this subject? Quit giving atheists a good name by being moral and doing nice things for people. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 J, this is a page out of my book. I used to always devalue all of my good qualities and say that they were "God"; I suck "without God", etc. Now, as an atheist, I still have no self-esteem. I still can't take credit for anything I do or accomplish! I also persist in a perception of low self-efficacy, although I am improving in that department in leaps and bounds, now that I know I don't have to wait for God to reveal something to me. Funny thing, I am viewed as very successful by everyone but I see myself as a complete failure. My heart hurt a little when I read this. This is why the "pastor" in me survived deconversion. I can not keep silent in the face of (even unintentional) fundy destruction anymore. I may be destined to be a Ron Kovic of xianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 Just a thought... do you think that xians who tear others down do that because they are not allowed to feel good about themselves? I'm not allowed to be prideful and I'm gonna make sure others don't feel good either. I think there are xians out there who are motivated that way for sure. In my experience, most devalue themselves and others because they are "brain washed" into believing that they are worthless without god. IMO, It's just an an extension of "you're eternally damned without god". That's the only way to convert someone. And then they keep the convert (or more often the converts keep themselves in bondage) by making them(selves) feel dependent. I however believe that some people who are xians are actually good people and I really wonder why they buy religion's lies. I always hope they see the truth and leave the religion. Kind of like you did J. Always was a good person and finally left xianity. I had an amazing boss like that. Really smart and compassionate. Thankfully she was not a fundie and did not believe in shoving her religion on others. I wish she too would leave the religion. Thanks London. I think people like your boss might be the easiest to deconvert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 Quit giving atheists a good name by being moral and doing nice things for people. :-) I will if you will midniterider...ah, who are we kidding...we are who we are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephie Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 It always makes me sad to hear my talented friends sing then credit God for their talent. It's like, "No honey, it's all you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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