blackpudd1n Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 It's all Mother Teresa's fault. It started simply enough. I was at a friend's, and I happened to be looking up Christopher Hitchens' book The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and in Practice. Next thing I know, I'm involved in my first conversation with a fundy about why I don't believe since I lost my faith. Some of her arguments were painful; painful enough to give me a headache. - There's so much evidence supporting creationism; - I'll believe when I see all the miracles happening (and God can make limbs grow back, though she couldn't think of any instances when he has) - I lost my faith because I hadn't seen God's miracles - She was very sad for me (I felt very sad for her) - I needed to spend less time researching and more time looking at christian websites about miracles - I needed to meet her brother who laid hands on someone and raised them from the dead - I needed to witness the power of the holy spirit (I told her that I used to be a pentecostal myself; saw enough of that) - All the water that made the great flood was in the atmosphere; before the great flood there was no rain (????????) ...In the end, I told her that I didn't want to live forever, I didn't believe in heaven or hell, and that I was proud to be an atheist. I told her that I really enjoyed and valued every day now, and that life was so much better. I also said that I considered independence of thought to be too valuable to give up for the sake of christianity, and that christians do not have free will. There was a lot more to it, but what puzzled me at the end was how a highly intelligent woman with two degrees could still believe in christianity. And worse, that there was more evidence supporting creationism than evolution. That just blew my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Actually, maybe I put this in the wrong section. I'm not really angry or ranting; more puzzled than anything else. One things for sure though; I'm definitely not a christian anymore. And her testimony had no impact on me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 They believe it's true because they want it to be true. We all know this to be true because we were the same way. She hasn't read much from the opposing viewpoint has she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 They believe it's true because they want it to be true. We all know this to be true because we were the same way. She hasn't read much from the opposing viewpoint has she? Even if she had, I dare say she read it with the blinkers on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Wow. What are her degrees in? I'm amazed at how many, say, engineers think science backs up a literal interp. of the Bible. Was this gal the friend you were visiting or someone else who was there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 What degrees does she have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Wow. What are her degrees in? I'm amazed at how many, say, engineers think science backs up a literal interp. of the Bible. Was this gal the friend you were visiting or someone else who was there? It was actually my friend's mother. I didn't realise she was that much of a fundy- I've only met her once, and I didn't quite realise just how deeply my friend had been brought up in xtianity. I'm going to need to follow up with my friend, to try and assess just how much of the brain washing is still there. I think she still has undertones of it, so I'd like to explore that with her, as she never struck me as overly religious, but then sometimes she'd say some things which were just so... christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 What degrees does she have? I'm pretty sure one's in teaching, not sure about the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 ...In the end, I told her that I didn't want to live forever, I didn't believe in heaven or hell, and that I was proud to be an atheist. I told her that I really enjoyed and valued every day now, and that life was so much better. I also said that I considered independence of thought to be too valuable to give up for the sake of christianity, and that christians do not have free will. Here, here! That was great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 ...In the end, I told her that I didn't want to live forever, I didn't believe in heaven or hell, and that I was proud to be an atheist. I told her that I really enjoyed and valued every day now, and that life was so much better. I also said that I considered independence of thought to be too valuable to give up for the sake of christianity, and that christians do not have free will. Here, here! That was great! Thanks Max I figured I'd cut to the chase in the end, because she seemed to be getting the idea that I missed god or something. I clarified that it was a shock to lose my faith, but that I was much happier for it. She said that nothing could ever shake her faith. I told her that I never thought I'd end up an atheist, and nor did anyone else- one of my old friends nearly spit out his coffee when he found out (we'd argue much on religion in the past). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Teaching degrees where I come from are college diplomas and not real degrees. Only the science folk need degrees as that is not everyone's cuppa tea. teaching history, geography, languages and math are a breeze, even I can do that. I would not teach science though. Most (new) teachers these days follow a curriculum and teach enough to answer questions in exams correctly, there is no transfer of knowledge and understanding, the older generation perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalWreck Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 She said that nothing could ever shake her faith. She shouldn't be too sure of herself - her "wonderful" god might just give her a test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Teaching degrees where I come from are college diplomas and not real degrees. Only the science folk need degrees as that is not everyone's cuppa tea. teaching history, geography, languages and math are a breeze, even I can do that. I would not teach science though. Most (new) teachers these days follow a curriculum and teach enough to answer questions in exams correctly, there is no transfer of knowledge and understanding, the older generation perhaps. Not in Australia. Over here, a degree is a degree, only bestowed by a university. Anything less is either a Certificate 2, 3, or 4, none of which are granted by universities. Also, for high school teaching, you have to do a degree in a subject, then add an extra year onto the end as a diploma of teaching. Primary school teaching is a degree in its own right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 She said that nothing could ever shake her faith. She shouldn't be too sure of herself - her "wonderful" god might just give her a test. The most ironic thing about it is that on the way to my friend's place, I realised in the car what the start of the descent away from faith was, so I told her the same thing. It was the day I realised that the greatest gift to humans was not free will, but the ability to think independently. We are so fucking lucky to have the ability to make up our own minds. Christians say that god's greatest gift is free will, but then they expect you to give up your free will and follow whatever they and the bible says. That is not free will, because often it goes against your own independence of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 She sounds like a junior school teacher. Those diplomas in Rhodie were 3 years and a lot of practical training. A teaching diploma was never anywhere near equal to a BSc but I guess it is different in different countries. A BSc is 4-5 years at a university or you can get accreditation via college and extra studies and subjects and gain what is termed a ticket here which even BSc's need to get with their one year practical. Both routes take 6 years minimum and the end game either one can be appointed as engineers. The only difference, the BSc guy is the only one that can add BSc behind his name on business cards and stationery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted March 31, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted March 31, 2012 - I needed to meet her brother who laid hands on someone and raised them from the dead Surely a feat of this magnitude has been reported by the legitimate press!?! Did he apply for James Randi's million dollar reward? But most importantly, is he on a "mission tour" of every hospital nearby to lay hands on all the sick, wounded, and dying? I mean, if he truly has this gift of healing, that should be something he'd feel a responsibility for doing. Ya know -- to cheerlead for jeezus make this world a better place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 She sounds like a junior school teacher. Those diplomas in Rhodie were 3 years and a lot of practical training. A teaching diploma was never anywhere near equal to a BSc but I guess it is different in different countries. A BSc is 4-5 years at a university or you can get accreditation via college and extra studies and subjects and gain what is termed a ticket here which even BSc's need to get with their one year practical. Both routes take 6 years minimum and the end game either one can be appointed as engineers. The only difference, the BSc guy is the only one that can add BSc behind his name on business cards and stationery. Nah, even primary school teaching is pretty intense academically over here. My friend's doing it, and she's learning about cognitive development, early learning, they do units on disability, ethics, everything. In high school, my legal studies teacher did a law degree, my economics teacher did economics, all of our science teachers had science degrees... The only ones who weren't likely to have that level of qualifications were like the wood working or sewing teachers, the more practical subjects. I'll have to find out more, though about what she studied, 'cause one of them was only recent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 - I needed to meet her brother who laid hands on someone and raised them from the dead Surely a feat of this magnitude has been reported by the legitimate press!?! Did he apply for James Randi's million dollar reward? But most importantly, is he on a "mission tour" of every hospital nearby to lay hands on all the sick, wounded, and dying? I mean, if he truly has this gift of healing, that should be something he'd feel a responsibility for doing. Ya know -- to cheerlead for jeezus make this world a better place. One would think so. She kept telling me look up some woman in Mozambique who runs an orphanage- she seems to think that that will change my mind. I reckon that this apparent "miracle" of her brother's probably had some medical explanation. Like, I knew a woman once who had a still-born birth; the little girl was born with the cord around her neck and only just didn't make it. But there was a young doctor there, and it was his first birth, and he kept rubbing her, long after when the nurses would have given up, and they let him continue because they believed he wouldn't get over it if they didn't leave him to it, to try as hard as he could. Anyway, the baby eventually took a breath and turned out okay (kind of- she had some issues, as would be expected). All he did was keep rubbing her and stuff, and she was able to be resuscitated. But CPR and electric shocks have brought many people back who've flat-lined. There is a window of opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 - I needed to meet her brother who laid hands on someone and raised them from the dead Surely a feat of this magnitude has been reported by the legitimate press!?! Did he apply for James Randi's million dollar reward? But most importantly, is he on a "mission tour" of every hospital nearby to lay hands on all the sick, wounded, and dying? I mean, if he truly has this gift of healing, that should be something he'd feel a responsibility for doing. Ya know -- to cheerlead for jeezus make this world a better place. Actually I did a quick google search. Why are the claims of people being raised from the dead only ever seen on christian or pro-christian sites? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherJosh Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 It was actually my friend's mother. I didn't realise she was that much of a fundy You'd be surprised how quickly normal every day people will turn into a frothing fundy when they find out you are anything but a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted March 31, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted March 31, 2012 - I needed to meet her brother who laid hands on someone and raised them from the dead Surely a feat of this magnitude has been reported by the legitimate press!?! Did he apply for James Randi's million dollar reward? But most importantly, is he on a "mission tour" of every hospital nearby to lay hands on all the sick, wounded, and dying? I mean, if he truly has this gift of healing, that should be something he'd feel a responsibility for doing. Ya know -- to cheerlead for jeezus make this world a better place. Actually I did a quick google search. Why are the claims of people being raised from the dead only ever seen on christian or pro-christian sites? Yeah, I've noticed that also. I guess most christians aren't too interested in fact-checking. After all, They Have FAITH. That's what is important to them. Talk about wearing god-goggles! Sheesh...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalWreck Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Like, I knew a woman once who had a still-born birth; the little girl was born with the cord around her neck and only just didn't make it. But there was a young doctor there, and it was his first birth, and he kept rubbing her, long after when the nurses would have given up, and they let him continue because they believed he wouldn't get over it if they didn't leave him to it, to try as hard as he could. Anyway, the baby eventually took a breath and turned out okay (kind of- she had some issues, as would be expected). All he did was keep rubbing her and stuff, and she was able to be resuscitated. But CPR and electric shocks have brought many people back who've flat-lined. There is a window of opportunity. And see, "miracles" like that always go back to this question: Why some and not all? Why did god save this baby but not so many others? It doesn't make any damn sense, but Christians don't have an answer to questions like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Like, I knew a woman once who had a still-born birth; the little girl was born with the cord around her neck and only just didn't make it. But there was a young doctor there, and it was his first birth, and he kept rubbing her, long after when the nurses would have given up, and they let him continue because they believed he wouldn't get over it if they didn't leave him to it, to try as hard as he could. Anyway, the baby eventually took a breath and turned out okay (kind of- she had some issues, as would be expected). All he did was keep rubbing her and stuff, and she was able to be resuscitated. But CPR and electric shocks have brought many people back who've flat-lined. There is a window of opportunity. And see, "miracles" like that always go back to this question: Why some and not all? Why did god save this baby but not so many others? It doesn't make any damn sense, but Christians don't have an answer to questions like that. I don't really see this as an example of a miracle, more a confirmation of a window of opportunity in some situations for resuscitation. I also can't help but wonder how many of these people who've "risen from the dead" were actually catatonic or in a coma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 It was actually my friend's mother. I didn't realise she was that much of a fundy You'd be surprised how quickly normal every day people will turn into a frothing fundy when they find out you are anything but a Christian. I think was more taken aback by the knowledge that Australia does have people every bit as fundy as in the States. I'd started thinking that it was all in my head- afterall, it's been a good two years since I last went to church. I'd gotten lulled into a false belief that Aussies weren't as hardcore as the evangelicals in the US. They can be, it's just that they're not as noticable in parliament, I guess. I told her my extimony. I've decided that if a christian's going to tell me their testimony, then I'm going to tell them my extimony. Fair's fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 There was a lot more to it, but what puzzled me at the end was how a highly intelligent woman with two degrees could still believe in christianity. And worse, that there was more evidence supporting creationism than evolution. That just blew my mind. Get used to it. Why do smart people believe weird things?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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