Doug Stanhope - Would You Believe If You Hadn't Been Indoctrinated As A Child?

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

So, to get back to the question: "You ONLY accept this drivel because it was spoon fed you as a soft-skulled child" This would suggest that you were exposed to Christianity as a child. Were you not? Were you so ignorant that you never heard of it before you became an adult? Of course not. And when you "heard" of it, was it presented as ridiculous fantasy, delusion, and absurd? I doubt that. So you were exposed as a child.

 

 

 

I am responding to this because I think you may still think this even if you read my post. But, any other comments, I started a new thread and will answer them in that thread to not derail this one.

 

Wow. You really think that? Shyone, first and foremost, consider this, there are always two sides to everything in this world. It just appears in the way one sees it to be in appearance based on that 'child skull stuff'. So, let me summarize you hypothesis.

 

You think that the cult brainwashed me and planted a device of knowledge in my brain to awakening me to the idea of Christianity when I became an adult?

 

Do you see how ridiculous that sounds!?

 

Skill learning are different from brainwashing. Did you ever think that I may just be a few steps forward?

 

Lets say I was brainwashed. If I was, I developed my resentment for the church, church people, religion early in my life because I have already worked through my resentment, and understand that even though the church or the people may be hypocritical, judgmental, Holier than everyone else; I still believe.

 

Who cares about the church!? Who are they to say what God is suppose to be?

 

Now, in the present, I am independent in my faith and grateful to the people that kept the Bible alive, even if they did alter parts of it, used it for power, authority, cults, self righteousness. I am grateful to God that he let them even in selfishness, keep His story alive and usable in my lifetime.

 

Because without it, I wouldn't know about Him, and possibly wouldn't be satisfied in my journey. I am thankful that God has kept Islam around to, seeing the works from God of other people and their experiences with God.

 

The only reason Jesus is not followed by Islamics is because the early church claimed that HE WAS GOD! He was not God, he was not the heir of God, He died on a cross, by people.

 

But, if he was right, He is of God now, He is crowned the Son of God in heaven, and He is still alive.

 

You know church is organized business. I am proof that even a child could understand that church is not perfect.

 

I put my faith in God, no other.

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

I didn't become religious until adulthood, and I didn't go to church most of my life. I wasn't gullible or stupid as an adult either. So, wouldn't that mean that you DONT know exactly why people are Christians?

Well, your guillible and stupid now to belive in imaginary beings.

 

Maybe it's only imaginary to you? I see God all the time through many different things, situations, circumstances. Wouldn't that make it comparable to love? Love is seen through actions, Can Christianity not be seen like that?

[Shyone]

 

 

BULLSHIT! You ONLY accept this drivel because it was spoon fed you as a soft-skulled child!

 

I didn't become religious until adulthood, and I didn't go to church most of my life. I wasn't gullible or stupid as an adult either. So, wouldn't that mean that you DONT know exactly why people are Christians?

I can't reconstruct your early life any more than I can walk into the empty tomb for myself, but... I think you are being misleading. I'm not sure you could prove me wrong because if you're being misleading, then you have incentive to continue doing so.

 

I could ask questions, but that basically gets too personal, and you might twist words and meanings to suit your purposes.

 

I see your statement, however, as discriminating between being "religious" and "believing." Being disinterested in religion is not the same as not being a Christian.

 

 

 

Wow. I wrote a big response to this just a minute ago, I hope you read it.

 

I do have a question and a response to what you have said.

 

Do you really think that me claiming what I claim is misleading?

 

I never cared about God or church. You, in your without God state, probably are more religious than I ever used to be. Church was not in my thoughts, my mind, or my actions, words, writing. It was nowhere to be found. And yes, it came just as that car example I gave in my response above. That's that.

 

Anything you say to try to convince me that I have this wrong with me, had to much pressure, needed psychological help, ..it's all been said to me before, by more important people in my life, people that I loved. So, you can say as you please, but I would appreciate it if you didn't because anytime my light, my Mona Lisa, my great symphony, my emotional awakening is smeared; it is hard to handle. Hopefully, thanks in advance.

Only addressing the remarks where you intimated you were not raised in a Christian environment, yes you were misleading in all honesty. I wish it weren't so, because I hate even suggesting that.

 

Like I said, you knew it. You were familiar with it. Everyone you know believed it, as did you. What was missing was the part you called "religious." I understand the difference, but what was being asserted in the OP and by others was that it had, at some point, been taught to you.

 

Of course, it would almost impossible to be raised in the US and not generally believe and understand what Christianity is, and the question is largely rhetorical. How could you know what you would believe had you been raised a Sikh.

 

I'm not saying that there wasn't a big difference between being passionate about it and not caring at all. I appreciate the difference in commitment and the meaning for you.

 

I think the ultimate implication on the part of D. Stanhope and others is that the basic reason people believe is because they have not been as thoroughly exposed to any opposing viewpoint. Same with Muslims and Hindus.

 

I saw a really cute cartoon where Jesus, Mohammed, Some Hindu and Moses were sitting around a flat map of the world playing the board game Risk. Cute, but also true. The reason for geographic distribution of religion is that children are exposed young, and they believe because others believe, and they infect indoctrinate their own children.

 

Some of these children become quite passionate about religion for various reasons. Maybe even as adults. That would be you.

[Shyone]

 

 

So, to get back to the question: "You ONLY accept this drivel because it was spoon fed you as a soft-skulled child" This would suggest that you were exposed to Christianity as a child. Were you not? Were you so ignorant that you never heard of it before you became an adult? Of course not. And when you "heard" of it, was it presented as ridiculous fantasy, delusion, and absurd? I doubt that. So you were exposed as a child.

 

 

 

I am responding to this because I think you may still think this even if you read my post. But, any other comments, I started a new thread and will answer them in that thread to not derail this one.

 

Wow. You really think that? Shyone, first and foremost, consider this, there are always two sides to everything in this world. It just appears in the way one sees it to be in appearance based on that 'child skull stuff'. So, let me summarize you hypothesis.

 

You think that the cult brainwashed me and planted a device of knowledge in my brain to awakening me to the idea of Christianity when I became an adult?

 

Do you see how ridiculous that sounds!?

 

<snip>

 

The only reason Jesus is not followed by Islamics is because the early church claimed that HE WAS GOD! He was not God, he was not the heir of God, He died on a cross, by people.

 

But, if he was right, He is of God now, He is crowned the Son of God in heaven, and He is still alive.

 

You know church is organized business. I am proof that even a child could understand that church is not perfect.

 

I put my faith in God, no other.

We're kind of ping-ponging, but still communicating, even if unevenly.

 

Indoctrination does not mean brainwashing, it means teaching. It implies a good thorough education, but only being given one viewpoint.

 

When you were an acolyte, how much instruction did you receive about how to pray to Mecca? How many times a day did you do so? What words would you recite when praying to Mecca? Or, perhaps, were you only taught to pray in some Christian way?

 

You were only taught that there was one religion that was true - only one. That is indoctrination. As an adult, you didn't have to sort out Shiite versus Sunni versus Sufi. Your selection was limited to Christian churches. Only Christian churches.

 

Lift up your head, look outside of your tiny little Christian world to see that there is a vast an unchristian world out there. You didn't choose Christianity, Christianity chose you by accident of birth.

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

Some of these children become quite passionate about religion for various reasons. Maybe even as adults. That would be you.

 

I get your point but the OP didn't have anything to do with other environments or cultures. It was just a comedian cracking jokes about kids being brainwashed, then the OP made their comments that went along with that.

 

I was saying that I WAS NOT brainwashed as they are talking about. Now, what you are talking about relates a little, but is another whole topic. My post was in response to Godtastic was asking how I became a Christian. Her examples were one person that just went to another denomination and was told they really weren't a Christian, and Chinese people that thought Christians were just luckier and decided to believe in it.

 

I don't understand your stance to my post or comments.

 

I agree nevertheless, if I lived in Islam, I would have probably been Islam, Is that the answer you looking for??

 

I have no problems with Islam, and I say let God deal with the separations of people that believe in Him, love Him. But, if I was raised in Islam region, I wouldn't be me, right? I would be someone else.

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

Lift up your head, look outside of your tiny little Christian world to see that there is a vast an unchristian world out there. You didn't choose Christianity, Christianity chose you by accident of birth.

 

I have You just haven't seen. I have no problems with Islam, Shyone. I've talked about this before, and with others here. Doesn't represent normal Christianity, huh?

 

I don't care if it doesn't 'fit' in with other denominations, or even Christianity as a whole by the church.

 

I hope you research peoples posts, comments, before you say something without knowing next time.

 

But, again, I agree, if I would've been born in another region, I may have been Islam, but I wasn't so, yes, Christianity is what I choose.

 

Does it matter who I choose? Even the Muslims believe in Jesus, they just don't worship him.

 

What about now? Why do I still Christianity now, since I have studied the Quran?

 

Comfort? be with like people in US?

 

But, also consider this. Who Cares!!!

 

Seriously, I wear jeans and a tee shirt out in the US. Should I wear Islamic apparel because I can only wear my clothes since the US culture is adjusted to that?

 

Really, to me, same God, same people. AND they even talk about Christ!?!?!

 

Why wouldn't I pretain to Christianity. They both say Christ is coming !!

[Shyone]

I have no problems with Islam, and I say let God deal with the separations of people that believe in Him, love Him. But, if I was raised in Islam region, I wouldn't be me, right? I would be someone else.

That's it. There are "someone elses" out there; billions of them, and not just the Muslims, but Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Jainists, Taoists - well you get my drift.

 

Stanhope's point was (as I understood it) that no one raised outside of some community holding those beliefs would consider Christianity to be sane.

 

But Me? "Uh, yeah, trinity, check, apostle's creed, check, Jesus, check, Whole Ball of Wax, check." I believed it. If I ask rhetorically, "Who didn't!?", the answer is above - people that weren't exposed to it.

 

Stanhope did not mean to suggest that everyone that believes in Christianity was brainwashed, just that they were "spoon fed" the ideas as children (when their minds were malleable and accepting of new beliefs - i.e. when they still had a "soft spot" on their head - it's a joke, sort of, get it?).

 

So, ultimately, if and when you can put yourself into the mind of someone outside your own body (a technique I call empathy) and, more particularly, into another's body with different beliefs, then you will have an epiphany. You won't be you for a moment; you'll be someone else just long enough to see yourself through their eyes and understand your religion through their mind.

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

So, ultimately, if and when you can put yourself into the mind of someone outside your own body (a technique I call empathy) and, more particularly, into another's body with different beliefs, then you will have an epiphany. You won't be you for a moment; you'll be someone else just long enough to see yourself through their eyes and understand your religion through their mind.

 

Okay, this goes a little deeper for you than me. Let me guess. When you were a Christian, you went to one of those churches that said anybody other than practicing Christians were going to hell, right?

 

I have never thought that. Rationality, common sense, CAN be incorporated into faith in Jesus Christ, if that is, you read and comprehend the Bible yourself.

 

I have done my research Shyone, faith is faith, whether it is from a devoted Christian, Allah, whatever.

 

Now the other examples. I can honestly say, I haven't studied much with the other examples of philosophy/religion that you mentioned. Good news can be turned into bad news. People in the church condemn anyone that doesn't worship Jesus, usually. If they pertain to any other religion, philosophy, they are marked as hellbound.

 

I was saying in another thread, Why not Christ? Why Buddhism, or other religions?

 

See, you say the opposite, why not those to me? Right?

 

Answer. I chose Christ because of the detailed account of what the afterlife entails through revelations, and what I feel Christ's dominion consists of. Example. Some may say that we go here or there, through another religion, belief, in the afterlife. Great!! I will be over here.

 

Will God decline those that live their whole lives in peace? Buddhist monks?

 

Most Christians would say that unless they receive Christ, they will go to hell, right?

 

Who says? John?

 

Do you think Christ is more worried about people that work iniquity, or those that live peaceful lives?

 

I say peaceful lives. Why can I say that you ask?

 

Because I believe in Christ. I'm a follower of Christ. I am not an attender to society.

 

'This roman solider has more faith than all of Israel!!!'

 

God cares about faith. I don't think that there is only one way into those pearly gates, their may very well be many.

 

Christ IMO made the scene clear that faith, belief, spiritual things, are important. Now, Jesus said many things, alot of his dialogue in debate was toward Jews.

 

I saw alot of things, ex. Communion, as Christ saying that if they don't believe now that He is right in front of them, they will not believe. Eating my flesh, drinking my blood. Even the Bible says the Jews were confused by it asking themselves if they were suppose to eat Jesus. He even tried to relate it to them speaking of the manna from heaven.

 

I do it still, as He said, in remembrance of Him. BUT, some would say that if you don't partake in communion, then you are damned in the first place.

 

Don't you know Shyone!! that before you went without God, when you were a Christian, unless you were Catholic, you were damned to hell

 

Oh yeah, and unless you were Protestant, you were not really saved!!

 

You were screwed before you even had one doubt, according to denomination that is.

 

You know one simple thing that I found years back that bothered me all my life, one of the 'things' that made an obvious defining line between religion, and caused me to back away from both.

 

Catholics during Christening are baptized and prayed over for the Holy Spirit to enter them.

 

I am authentic!!!! I was Christened!!

[Shyone]

God cares about faith. I don't think that there is only one way into those pearly gates, their may very well be many.

 

Actually, I was a WhiskeyPalian (Episcopalian). Not really super "religious" and I thought everyone would go to heaven. But, then, growing up I thought everyone was Episcopalian. Or Catholic. I went to a Methodist summer bible school. Seemed Episcopalian to me.

 

Here's a problem (in your statement above). God cares about faith. Faith? Faith in Marshall Applewhite, Jim Jones, David Koresh and Sun Myung Moon? Any faith at all, no matter how stupid, dangerous, bizarre, or cruel?

 

Or only certain particular faiths?

 

Or, if it doesn't matter which faith, then why have some unsupported belief at all? Why is it not, "God cares about reason"? Or is He only interested in gullible people?

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

Or, if it doesn't matter which faith, then why have some unsupported belief at all? Why is it not, "God cares about reason"? Or is He only interested in gullible people?

 

I guess I think of it in an abstract way. If there is another religion that is peaceful, seeking, wanting answers, looking to spiritual things then they should be okay with Christ as well, since He sought spiritual things as well.

 

Shyone, there is a common theme of the Bible, throughout the Bible. God has divine intervention with His creation, then they screw it up, make their ways, doctrine, and leave the important part out, What God actually said to them.

 

How would you feel if when you died you found out that God only really said a few things to mankind besides what Christ said, and the rest was their thoughts and desires?

 

I posted something to this sort in Jeremiah in another thread.

[Shyone]

 

 

Or, if it doesn't matter which faith, then why have some unsupported belief at all? Why is it not, "God cares about reason"? Or is He only interested in gullible people?

 

I guess I think of it in an abstract way. If there is another religion that is peaceful, seeking, wanting answers, looking to spiritual things then they should be okay with Christ as well, since He sought spiritual things as well.

 

Shyone, there is a common theme of the Bible, throughout the Bible. God has divine intervention with His creation, then they screw it up, make their ways, doctrine, and leave the important part out, What God actually said to them.

 

How would you feel if when you died you found out that God only really said a few things to mankind besides what Christ said, and the rest was their thoughts and desires?

 

I posted something to this sort in Jeremiah in another thread.

The problem with faith in general is that we don't have any checks on what to have faith in. If the bible has been manipulated, altered, edited, and was written as a justification for bad things, then what parts deserve our faith and trust?

 

If you answer, the peaceful, "spiritual" seeking things, it will still lead to confusion. I'm sure Jim Jones seemed peaceful, spiritual and "seeking", but he was nuts or worse.

 

I see no other way than to be basically skeptical of all claims made by humans. And that includes the Bible. Religious people lie for a lot of reasons; defense of the faith, personal aggrandizement, perhaps even out of delusion, but they do lie.

 

They lie about big things, and small things, and they bend the truth and they claim outrageous feats.

 

Impossible claims are not just outrageous, they are unreasonable and require faith. The world can't afford unquestioning faith anymore; it has become a liability.

 

I suspect you would use reason in evaluating religious claims even if you wouldn't admit it. Your criteria? Who knows. Some people may not have the same criteria.

[Deva]

 

I was saying in another thread, Why not Christ? Why Buddhism, or other religions?

 

See, you say the opposite, why not those to me? Right?

 

Answer. I chose Christ because of the detailed account of what the afterlife entails through revelations, and what I feel Christ's dominion consists of. Example. Some may say that we go here or there, through another religion, belief, in the afterlife. Great!! I will be over here.

 

Will God decline those that live their whole lives in peace? Buddhist monks?

 

Buddhism is not about the same thing as Christianity. Buddhism is about the unsatisfactory nature of life, and how to liberate yourself. It is a do it yourself project. Christianity is about pleasing a holy God. However, maybe you think Christianity is about something different.

 

In the version of Christianity I was raised in, those peaceful monks are all hellbound.

[Vigile]

If there is another religion that is peaceful, seeking, wanting answers, looking to spiritual things then they should be okay with Christ as well, since He sought spiritual things as well.

 

You're projecting. The evidence is pretty balanced here. He also spoke in militaristic terms. You are taking from him what you want and likely rationalizing the rest.

 

On that note, the bible is like a horoscope. It's written with such broad language that anyone who is open to it can take from it what they think it says. That method fools a lot of people but it's not very good at defining reality. But you won't hear a word I'm saying, not really, since you already know what you want to believe.

[Guest end3]

So let's say most here are right, even though I didn't become a Christian until I was older, I was exposed to it as a child.

 

With this, you say that this is the truth.

 

Now, please follow me, cause I can be tricky, if this is the case, then the children of an particular society will choose a belief/morals of the society in which they were raised?

 

Be careful.....actually it's too late, you done stepped in it.

[Vigile]

So let's say most here are right, even though I didn't become a Christian until I was older, I was exposed to it as a child.

 

With this, you say that this is the truth.

 

The truth? No, this doesn't represent the 'truth.' This represents probabilities.

 

Now, please follow me, cause I can be tricky, if this is the case, then the children of an particular society will choose a belief/morals of the society in which they were raised?

 

Stats easily back this up. There are always outliers.

 

I would think, if xians had even the slightest ability to assess logic, that they would at least be given pause by the fact that the American version of fundy xianity is primarily isolated to regional areas in the US and only sporadically emerges in small communities in various parts of the world. It should also give them pause to realize that almost 100% of the population in islamic countries are muslim. Etc...

 

To any reasonable person (which in my experience, xians are not) it is clear that religious belief type is nearly 100% correlated with geography.

 

Seems odd if it really does represent the 'truth' as you say.

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

You're projecting. The evidence is pretty balanced here. He also spoke in militaristic terms. You are taking from him what you want and likely rationalizing the rest.

 

On that note, the bible is like a horoscope. It's written with such broad language that anyone who is open to it can take from it what they think it says. That method fools a lot of people but it's not very good at defining reality. But you won't hear a word I'm saying, not really, since you already know what you want to believe.

 

Did you ever wonder why Christ didn't speak of any Greek gods, in discussion?

 

Everything is projected, even the food we eat. Projections are life. Life without projections would be still.

 

What evidence? Militaristic, but speaking and doing are two different things. If He was God anointed, turn water to wine, stop the winds in the sea, raise the dead; then why didn't He act on his militaristic views?

 

Also, for every militaristic view, there was a peaceful view on the other side.

 

Point is that I am not taking how I want to, but rather, how it is. It's not a method. You're correct in that it is broad, but, if you read between the lines from the OT, Gospels, NT, there is a theme.

 

God intervenes with man. Man makes religion around that. God intervenes with man, man makes religion.

 

Did you ever see this theme in the Bible?

 

I break it up in parts.

 

Abraham. Alters.

Israel. More alters, cultivation around God.

Moses. Alters, Mosaic Laws.

Saul, David, Solomon, Israel as a formation. Organized religion and cultivation.

Prophets. God's wrath, vengeance

Christ. Mostly Paul setting up cultivation, practice, of Christ.

 

 

The pattern for me is that God intervenes, then man screws it up, or makes it whatever they want. I am just observing this theme of the Bible and trying to illustrate it accurately.

 

If someone asked what do I think this day and time represents in the Bible, I would say the end.

 

Once again, Christianity has emerged from God's divine interaction and is a hierarchy on Earth, once again. The only difference to me between now and back in classical antiquity is that now, there is nothing in this world undiscovered. No uncertainties. We have the knowledge, capabilities, skills, and equipment to know everything physical on this Earth.

 

Catholic, Protestant, most, are hierarchy.

 

If God sent a prophet to speak to the churches, do you think they would listen?

[Shyone]

So let's say most here are right, even though I didn't become a Christian until I was older, I was exposed to it as a child.

 

With this, you say that this is the truth.

 

Now, please follow me, cause I can be tricky, if this is the case, then the children of an particular society will choose a belief/morals of the society in which they were raised?

 

Be careful.....actually it's too late, you done stepped in it.

Yes, very tricky.

 

You didn't define society however.

 

You also imply an all or none situation; a generalization.

 

Take the sentence, "All children of Senator X will be moral" assuming a basic morality of obeying laws that carry a penalty of jail time (IOW excluding parking tickets and minor infractions). They are raised in the same family, so that would be the same society. Can we say that this sentence will always be true?

 

No. Some rich kids, sons and daughters of senators, will be criminals.

 

How about, "All Christian Ministers will be moral"? ha! Not a chance.

 

How about "Most children raised in Christian homes will be Christian; most children raised in Muslim homes will be muslim; Most children raised in Hindu homes will be Hindu."

 

Most. That is different. The answer is undeniably, unequivocally a resounding YES!

 

Going back in time, could I have predicted that you, in particular, would become Christian? No. I can't even say that you will be Christian tomorrow.

 

The funny thing is that neither can you.

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

To any reasonable person (which in my experience, xians are not) it is clear that religious belief type is nearly 100% correlated with geography.

 

Seems odd if it really does represent the 'truth' as you say.

 

That is actually proven through genetics. Studies on twins have shown the genetic similarities years later when split at birth, but have different belief systems. Religion is one thing that genetics is proven to not alter, and culture.So, yes, geographics do have a part in what a person will believe.

[Shyone]

 

 

To any reasonable person (which in my experience, xians are not) it is clear that religious belief type is nearly 100% correlated with geography.

 

Seems odd if it really does represent the 'truth' as you say.

 

That is actually proven through genetics. Studies on twins have shown the genetic similarities years later when split at birth, but have different belief systems. Religion is one thing that genetics is proven to not alter, and culture.So, yes, geographics do have a part in what a person will believe.

Yes, and.. And.... That means....

 

Nope, not ripe yet.

[Guest end3]

The funny thing is that neither can you.

 

Aye, but can God?

 

lol, just had to throw it out there Shy...you are one smart dude.

[Legion]

Shy...you are one smart dude.

I agree. Too bad materialism has him in its grip.

[Shyone]

 

The pattern for me is that God intervenes, then man screws it up, or makes it whatever they want. I am just observing this theme of the Bible and trying to illustrate it accurately.

 

<snip>

 

If God sent a prophet to speak to the churches, do you think they would listen?

The pattern is what men make it, and they ascribe their desires, beliefs and politics to what they see.

 

I see:

 

Man screws up, other men say "our way it better", and so "God is against our political opponent", so you should give us the power, and the money.

 

Look through the OT. The phrases are used over and over, "[enter name here] did evil in the sight of the lord, and shit did fall upon him." But this is what happens when you have a political ping-pong country between three or found major powers. Palestine was a buffer zone between the Babylonians, Assyrians, Egyptians and Hittites.

 

Just as people do today, they credit god with the good stuff. Unlike today, they blamed god for the bad stuff.

 

As for the second question, my goodness, look at all the prophets.

 

Jim Jones, David Koresh, Marshall Applewhite, Tony Alamo.... Do people listen? Unfortunately yes.

 

Since there isn't any god, there are no "real prophets", and so when you see prophets, its "GIGO" - garbage in, garbage out.

[Shyone]

The funny thing is that neither can you.

 

Aye, but can God?

 

lol, just had to throw it out there Shy...you are one smart dude.

You do have the interesting questions, although this one is kind of hypothetical to a non-christian.

 

It almost reminds of me of the "Can god make a rock that is too big for him to move?" delimma.

 

If the future is known, and God is omnipotent and omniscient, then let's get this charade over with. That is, if it's like a fixed roulette wheel or loaded dice, then just tell me if I win or lose and forget about watching the dice or wheel.

 

If the future is unknown, then I will do what I do, be the best person I can, try not to piss too many people off, save a few lives, and enjoy what I can enjoy.

 

And I'll take 26 red.

[Vigile]

Did you ever wonder why Christ didn't speak of any Greek gods, in discussion?

 

Why would he? He lived in the ME. Worlds away from Rome in that day and unless he was educated in the classics he was probably utterly ignorant of the Greeks. Assuming he even existed.

 

What evidence? Militaristic,

 

Surely you've read the NT. No need to rehash what we both know.

 

but speaking and doing are two different things. If He was God anointed, turn water to wine, stop the winds in the sea, raise the dead; then why didn't He act on his militaristic views?

 

He wasn't god anointed and had no magical power.

Also, for every militaristic view, there was a peaceful view on the other side.

 

Like I said, balanced. The bible is ecumenical. It has something for everyone if they want to find it. Again, just like an average horoscope.

 

The book of Mormon is also like this. I know an xian guy who used the book of Mormon to prove that the LDS religion was of the devil and that god had interwoven a message into it to lead to the protestant gospel. People read into both what they want to see.

 

there is a theme.

 

The theme depends on the reader, not the text. That's why there are so many bible-based religions.

 

Show me where there is anything close to an academic agreement about the underlying theme.

 

If God sent a prophet to speak to the churches, do you think they would listen?

 

Hard to tell. God, to me is imaginary. I guess it would depend on what you imagine he is before one would have a good base to guess from how people would respond to it. If his message was populist, then crowds would go for it. If not, then no.

[Guest end3]

The funny thing is that neither can you.

 

Aye, but can God?

 

lol, just had to throw it out there Shy...you are one smart dude.

You do have the interesting questions, although this one is kind of hypothetical to a non-christian.

 

It almost reminds of me of the "Can god make a rock that is too big for him to move?" delimma.

 

If the future is known, and God is omnipotent and omniscient, then let's get this charade over with. That is, if it's like a fixed roulette wheel or loaded dice, then just tell me if I win or lose and forget about watching the dice or wheel.

 

If the future is unknown, then I will do what I do, be the best person I can, try not to piss too many people off, save a few lives, and enjoy what I can enjoy.

 

And I'll take 26 red.

 

I'll just put it in my personal file under "objective evidence"....since it has high probablility