Are My Requests Unreasonable?

[Loren]

I agree with the others. I think you're doing this well. That letter was nauseating. I'm truly amazed that she didn't trot out the old, "How sharper than a serpent's tooth," quote.

 

The way she's set this up, it's a no-win situation. You can either do some version of what you're doing, or knuckle under to her, in which case I can picture the situation going on forever. She'll be pulling this shit when you're fifty, if you allow it.

 

There are some pathological behaviors which have the same kind of qualities as wildfires or plagues: They share the characteristic that they will grow and spread and consume until something external stops them. They never, ever stop from within.

[CelticWhisper]

I understand what Francotiradora is saying with regard to cutting too many ties, but I disagree with the parts about "respecting elders." Once you hit 18 (or whatever the legal age of majority is in your country of residence), "elders" cease to be anything but human beings who happen to have been born at a date and time that fell before the date and time you were born. If they want my respect, they get to prove that they deserve it. It should be noted that the fastest way for someone to prove that they DON'T deserve my respect is by trying to demand it on the grounds that they're older than me and so should automatically get it.

 

Now, regarding profanity/blasphemy in front of your mother, if it's in her house, then I'd try to tone it down out of respect for another person's home. However, if it's in your home, your authority is absolute and it's up to you whether you want to try to create an environment that will make her want to stay or if you'd rather feel unencumbered in your language. If in public, usual standards of public conduct and politeness apply - nothing special either way.

[Shyone]

I understand what Francotiradora is saying with regard to cutting too many ties, but I disagree with the parts about "respecting elders." Once you hit 18 (or whatever the legal age of majority is in your country of residence), "elders" cease to be anything but human beings who happen to have been born at a date and time that fell before the date and time you were born. If they want my respect, they get to prove that they deserve it. It should be noted that the fastest way for someone to prove that they DON'T deserve my respect is by trying to demand it on the grounds that they're older than me and so should automatically get it.

 

Maybe it's a cultural thing. I was raised to respect my elders. I was taught that everyone deserves respect until they demonstrate that they don't deserve it. I was taught that one's station in life does not determine whether they deserve respect or not.

 

So maybe I'm weird, but I say "Yes, sir" and "Yes, maam" to almost everyone, but especially to elders.

[ShallowByThyGame]

I have no problem with cursing, but I've found that it's one of those things best done when everyone is already comfortable with each other...kind of like hugging. Swears are great communication tools when used properly. These are certainly plenty of seniors who curse.

 

Elder's have life experience, and I respect their potential knowledge, but I will not respect them beyond that just for being old. Some are fun to be around, some are bitter and mean. When I say 'Sir' it really means 'I don't trust you yet' anyway...respect for any stranger is a good survival strategy because you play it safe.

[CelticWhisper]

I understand what Francotiradora is saying with regard to cutting too many ties, but I disagree with the parts about "respecting elders." Once you hit 18 (or whatever the legal age of majority is in your country of residence), "elders" cease to be anything but human beings who happen to have been born at a date and time that fell before the date and time you were born. If they want my respect, they get to prove that they deserve it. It should be noted that the fastest way for someone to prove that they DON'T deserve my respect is by trying to demand it on the grounds that they're older than me and so should automatically get it.

 

Maybe it's a cultural thing. I was raised to respect my elders. I was taught that everyone deserves respect until they demonstrate that they don't deserve it. I was taught that one's station in life does not determine whether they deserve respect or not.

 

So maybe I'm weird, but I say "Yes, sir" and "Yes, maam" to almost everyone, but especially to elders.

 

See, I think what you're talking about is a little different. You mention believing everyone deserves respect until they demonstrate that they don't. To me that seems different than granting special respect to elders, though you do mention that at the end of your post.

 

Of course, I was raised that way too. I just opted to reject it since I've known old people who can be right bastards. My perspective on universal respect is a bit different as well - to me, everyone gets a *little* respect, as a means of greasing the wheels of social interaction. It's a base kind of regard that stems from us all being living, breathing, thinking, feeling human beings. It's respect for personal space (don't talk in someone's face), respect for property (don't mistreat people's possessions), respect for health (don't smoke in someone's face, if I smoked), that sort of thing. Once I know a person better, that respect can either be built upon based on accomplishments and intelligence (e.g. my professors, my mother, my brother) or diminished based on the same things (e.g. my mother's husband, many politicians, preachers, etc.) And of course accomplishments and intelligence aren't the only criteria, just two good examples.

 

In the case of the mother in this situation, my respect would be...strained, to say the least. Especially considering the disrespect she's showing her son. Sorry, mummy dearest, but I'm not a dog you can kick around and expect to come running back. Burn my trust and respect, and it WILL be gone, and it will be difficult to restore.

 

All this said, I feel the need to clarify that this is my approach to matters of interpersonal respect and conduct. I am in no way implying or stating that it must be yours as well - only you can decide what is right for you. And I will respect your decision, my fellow homo sapiens.

[HRDWarrior]

Did you steal my mother? Seriously, they sound almost exactly alike in their mode of communication - I'd say the biggest difference is the few times I have flat out put my foot down and laid out clear boundries my mom did respect them, although not always without protest and lengthy guilt trips, but did respect them (thankfully).

 

I haven't ready everyone else's response in detail, but basically a few things: no matter how nicely you say things, someone like that will always take the victim role - they will turn it around to make it about them, and try to make you feel bad for "hurting" them. They will bring up things from the past (such as the car) and use that to make their points even though it has no relevance.

 

You just need to stick to your guns - but also be sure to hold up your end of the bargain. For example, even if your sisters approach you and ask about your beliefs, then you just have to respond that while they are living with mom and dad, you can't discuss that with them (if not pursuading them is one of the things you agree to). Then, be sure to hold your mom up to her end - and if she doesn't, follow through with the consequences - don't get angry, mad, or start yelling, simply pack up and leave, hang up, block her email, whatever it takes at that time.

 

I would dare to bet that the first time you actually follow through with the boundries, that things will change significantly after that - I believe that was a big turning point with my mom as far as that goes, and probably why things have been a lot less rough over my deconversion than expected. I had set down boundries when I was planning my wedding, and I stuck to them. At the time my mother threw a fit, but I stuck to my guns and once she realized I wasn't going to back down, things settled down. Each time since then, whenever I've set boundries, there have been fewer and fewer protests, to this last one which had basically no protests (yet anyways, and I don't forsee them since things have gone as they have so far).

 

There are a lot of things that aren't worth setting boundries about, so be sure the ones you pick truly do matter to you, then be sure to stick to them. They will never be happy, but at least you should be able to be at peace with your parents, even if there is an invisible tension, at least it shouldn't lead to screaming matches.

 

Good luck!

[Shyone]

 

All this said, I feel the need to clarify that this is my approach to matters of interpersonal respect and conduct. I am in no way implying or stating that it must be yours as well - only you can decide what is right for you. And I will respect your decision, my fellow homo sapiens.

You know, I haven't really thought much about it, but I distinguish between honor and admiration versus formal "respect." I roughly equate respect with politeness.

 

I don't mean respect in the sense that the Japanese honor their elderly beyond their knowledge or accomplishments.

 

But I am a bit rigid in my social interactions. When a janitor says, "Watch it; the floor is wet", I would likely reply, "Yes, sir, I sure will." It doesn't hurt anything, and after all the man may have just saved my life.

 

Some day I may return the favor, but in the meantime, a little "respect" seems in order.

[Loren]

Sorry, but I just couldn't help myself:

[★ Citsonga ★]

She said I was being disrespectful and rude. She also says she is my mother and that she has a right and an obligation to tell me "what is on her heart."

 

Tell her that you're her son that that you have every right to tell her what is on your heart, and if she doesn't like it then she's being disrespectful and rude.

 

Reading through the subsequent emails, the only thing I would agree with your mother on is the car. When you use something belonging to someone else, you should be responsible with it. But, like you said, that really has nothing to do with the issue at hand, and she's just being manipulative.

 

For you to believe you are happy now, yet you argue with all who truly love you and are concerned shows you really are not happy. You are holding us at bay telling us what we can and cannot say....which isn't unconditional love.....you are loving conditionally.

 

SHE is loving "conditionally" by expecting you to think exactly like she does.

 

Also, as others have mentioned, you can easily counter Pascal's Wager. Just ask her, what if Islam is right? Then she loses and will be punished severely for it.

 

Anyway, best of luck to you....

[greenhunter]

My basic attitude is...."if you want to see your grandkids, you will behave."...

 

i told that to my grandfather, and since i'm the favorite one, he's doing that. my aunts and uncles have nothing on me.

[GraphicsGuy]

That you actually made respectful requests and didn't just tell her to "fuck off" already speaks of your character.

 

Like you told her, it's your life, not hers. If she's too insecure to accept that you are your own person...well...not much you can do to help her there. Manipulative abuse is her M-O.

 

You can "regret" dumping your beliefs and dating this girl or be 45 and regret never standing up to your mother (like my father did with his mother).