Scorpion Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 It's summer time and my wife wants to send the kids to a week long church camp in Missouri. Her family are all fundies. I call them 'red dirt' fundies because they are all Okies (from Oklahoma). These camps are expensive and, of course, her parents are paying for it all. I was never even consulted on the matter. We've been married for 15 years and other than the religion issue have had a good go of it. However, I'm very much against the indoctrination of children at ANY age. I was raised to THINK and MAKE UP MY OWN mind about whether to believe in invisible people. What should I do, wait until they come back from church camp and then de-brain wash them? Sorry if this sounds rude, and it does, but why don't you grow some balls and stand up for what you believe in? Stand up for your children and say "No, I will not send my children to be indoctrinated at an Al-Bibla training camp!" I'm sorry, but sometimes it is frustrating seeing all those free, intelligent people trying to tiptoe around bigots, fanatics and obscurantists! Granted, I never lived in Jesusland, so I don't have the experience you have, but I'm a very frontal person. I could never live permanently hiding my beliefs! We should be holding our banners high, for all the world to see. Those who love us would stay anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Agreed...It's sticky to teach an 8 year old and a 12 year old that Jesus is likely a myth and certainly didn't perform miracles. You have to walk on egg shells. However, I did ask my daughter (12 yr old) if she had thought about Noah's boat being big enough for every animal, insect, reptile etc... and all of the food and water to feed them all... was it realistic? Of course, she didn't get what I was driving at. In my humble opinion, counter-indoctrination is not the answer. Specific attacks against specific beliefs is just indoctrination on the opposite opinion. Knowledge is the best antidote for ignorance and superstition. Take them to a natural history museum. Take them to a fossil site. Take them to a space exhibition. If there's things that kids love, it's dinnossaurs and spaceships! To sum up, teach them truthfully and without doctrine, religious or otherwise. They will make up their own mind. This is not about her beliefs versus your beliefs. It's about your children having all the facts. About what you have to offer besides questions, I believe it's important that they realise noone has all the answers. There's also a proud history of non-theistic philosophers going back more than 2500 years. Talk to them about Thales of Miletus, the first man in recorded history to seek natural, non-theistic explanations for natural phenomena. Talk to them about Socrates, the philosopher whose teachings and questioning of pre-estabilished truth resulted in his persecution and execution by the rulers of Athens, but whose ideas carried on in the works of his pupils. (Hmm, that sounds oddly familiar... ) Atheist indoctrination is just as bad as Xtian one. Don't feed your kids the conclusions. Feed them the facts. Teach them as truthfully as possible. They will make up their own mind... More power to you, RationalOkie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKR Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 'Snip'Regardless if you teach your children to question all authority and that seeking knowledge is the greatest virtue, the church probably won't last long. Agreed...It's sticky to teach an 8 year old and a 12 year old that Jesus is likely a myth and certainly didn't perform miracles. You have to walk on egg shells. However, I did ask my daughter (12 yr old) if she had thought about Noah's boat being big enough for every animal, insect, reptile etc... and all of the food and water to feed them all... was it realistic? Of course, she didn't get what I was driving at. I asked her if she had ever considered the Polar Bears and Penguins and how they could have migrated through the deserts to Noah...same thing. It's hard to reason with a kid is what I'm driving at. Hell, it's even harder to reason w/ adults come to think of it. Why do you have to walk on egg shells? Why pussy foot around it? Agreed...It's sticky to teach an 8 year old and a 12 year old that Jesus is likely a myth and certainly didn't perform miracles. You have to walk on egg shells. However, I did ask my daughter (12 yr old) if she had thought about Noah's boat being big enough for every animal, insect, reptile etc... and all of the food and water to feed them all... was it realistic? Of course, she didn't get what I was driving at. In my humble opinion, counter-indoctrination is not the answer. Specific attacks against specific beliefs is just indoctrination on the opposite opinion. Knowledge is the best antidote for ignorance and superstition. Take them to a natural history museum. Take them to a fossil site. Take them to a space exhibition. If there's things that kids love, it's dinnossaurs and spaceships! To sum up, teach them truthfully and without doctrine, religious or otherwise. They will make up their own mind. This is not about her beliefs versus your beliefs. It's about your children having all the facts. About what you have to offer besides questions, I believe it's important that they realise noone has all the answers. There's also a proud history of non-theistic philosophers going back more than 2500 years. Talk to them about Thales of Miletus, the first man in recorded history to seek natural, non-theistic explanations for natural phenomena. Talk to them about Socrates, the philosopher whose teachings and questioning of pre-estabilished truth resulted in his persecution and execution by the rulers of Athens, but whose ideas carried on in the works of his pupils. (Hmm, that sounds oddly familiar... ) Atheist indoctrination is just as bad as Xtian one. Don't feed your kids the conclusions. Feed them the facts. Teach them as truthfully as possible. They will make up their own mind... More power to you, RationalOkie! So, if you teach children that the stories of the Greek gods aren't real, but only myths, that's "Atheist indoctrination" as well? How is it indoctrination to inform children that certain ridiculous ideas are just that - ridiculous ideas? "Holy shit, you can't tell your children that Santa isn't real! That's indoctrination!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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