What Do Ya'll Do With The Bible You Use To Believe?

[Guest WAVESFORFUN]

He's right Waves. He is quoting them exactly and that is what your book says. He's even got the Greek down too- which I have right in front of me double checking for myself. There is nothing like a REAL education. Too bad not everyone gets one. (Except he needs to drop the "2" before the 7 for it is Matthew 7:1 in Greek, not 27:1)

 

To bring everyone up to date. My research(own personal off the cuff reasons) , has brought me to the conclusion that doubt and unbelief are the DNA that all x christian people share. What ever causes these people to come to this point in their lives, is as broad as the human race in that everyone has their own unique story leading up to why. However these stories do share there own certain homogeneity, they are at best mixed, as human emotion and drama of life has shaken and stirred them to be. I have found that not everyone fit the criteria of actually being a Christian by its meaning of origin.

Many of you believe that I'm here to "win" some of you over. I refute that. It is your life and your choice. I do advocate everyone making a fully informed choice and that they are assured they were doing it correctly in the first place.

 

I most definitely have made a more informed choice than you have. I've actually educated myself. I wanted to educate myself. I chose to educate myself. I do not see much education in what you say about science or religion. What I see is a lot of delusional statements that have no educational basis. I seriously doubt you even know what I was talking about concerning pre and post Xian sects. I don't even think you know what the list of groups I mentioned were even. The only thing you know is what you have been spoon fed. You have not done any real scholarly research of your own. I seriously doubt you even know where the first two chapters of Genesis originated and it was not from some deity either. Did you know there is a story where Adam had a wife before Eve? I did not expect you did. It is a Hebrew story and her name was Lilith. You know absolutely nothing concerning mythology (and I'm including Xianity).

 

You can have all the education in the world....some of the worst people are the best educated.....like education ever changed who you are.... Wisdom and Understanding....aren't something you gain through education..... I'm glad you got an education... that however does not give you the wisdom or understanding to make the right choice.

[Mriana]

O come now...I won't debate you out side of what the Bible says....so don't bother with waiting.

 

Only because you have not been educated about anything about it. Like I said, you cannot even answer the question as to where the first two chapters of Genesis originated. It was not with any deity, that is for sure. Until you realize the Bible is rewritten myth, you know nothing.

[Guest WAVESFORFUN]

O come now...I won't debate you out side of what the Bible says....so don't bother with waiting.

 

Only because you have not been educated about anything about it. Like I said, you cannot even answer the question as to where the first two chapters of Genesis originated. It was not with any deity, that is for sure. Until you realize the Bible is rewritten myth, you know nothing.

 

 

You mean until i doubt i can't Believe?

[Mriana]

O come now...I won't debate you out side of what the Bible says....so don't bother with waiting.

 

Only because you have not been educated about anything about it. Like I said, you cannot even answer the question as to where the first two chapters of Genesis originated. It was not with any deity, that is for sure. Until you realize the Bible is rewritten myth, you know nothing.

 

 

You mean until i doubt i can't Believe?

 

That was not what I said. Your belief is based on superstition, not knowledge. I do not believe. I know that the Bible is myth and JC never actually existed OR IF he did, he is so buried in myth that the real man cannot be found. And for you information, the first two chapters of Genesis came from Babylonian and Mesopotamian (or Egyptian, I get confused) mythical flood stories. See Victor H. Matthews Old Testament Parallels for starters on this subject. There are many others who discuss this too. Your whole book is based on nothing by mythology, including and esp sun worship.

[bdp]

waves, if you happen to see this, I never had any proof of the kind you claim. Never. That's life. Peace.

[DarthOkkata]

Examples of the so called 'best educated = worst people' Atheist and Secularist:

 

Abraham Lincoln, John Adams, Albert Einstein, Andrew Carnegie, Earnest Hemingway, Aurther C. Clark, Benjamin Franklin, Billy Joel, Frank Zappa, Gene Roddenberry, Helen Keller, James Madison, Napoleon Bonaparte, Mark Twain, Walt Disney, Alfred Hitchcock, George Orwell, Charels Shultz, Robert Frost, Susan B. Anthony, Vincent Van Gogh, Thomas Jefferson, William H. Taft, Thomas Edison.

 

What horrible monsters!

 

Idiot. Your claim has no backing.

 

If you're going to run your mouth, provide examples. Otherwise we're going to call you on your idiocy. Please also provide proof that lack of faith was a direct contributing factor to their evils.

 

Stalin wasn't a believer, but he was an evil prick because he was a power hungry despot dictator. Not because he was an Atheist. There's nothing that proves that his bad behavior had anything to do with his lack of belief, or that he would have been any less of a jerk with Jesus, Allah, Krishna, or whatever in his heart.

 

To my knowledge, no one has ever committed an evil act -because- they were an Atheist. Nor has Christianity ever prevented one.

 

Christian monsters:

 

Adolph Hitler. Well, you should know this one. The final solution justified as 'revenge killing' for the death of Jesus at the hands of the Jews. Fond of stating that 'God was on his side' and invoking Christianity and Christian values in his speeches. Seminary school, nearly became a priest, very spiritual person, personal friends with Pius XII [Who often showed up to celebrate his birthday.]

 

Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile, Pope Lucius III. The architects of the Spanish Inquisition.

 

Richard I of England. Richard promised to leave noncombatants unharmed if the city of Acre surrendered. When the city surrendered Richard proceeded to massacre everyone, despite his earlier promise.

 

Pope Innocent III. Initiated the Fourh Crusade, which ended up sacking and pillaging Constantinople. Also initiated the 'Children's Crusade' which sent tens of thousands of Children to their doom in an attempt to use an -army of children- to retake the Holy Land.

 

Also note, these people were -motivated by religious reasons- and/or directly used religion to enact their evil goals. It's also just the tip of the Iceburg.

 

There is a logical path from Religion to evil deeds, there is no logical path from Atheism to evil deeds.

 

Murder, torture, and cruelty are immoral because they cause people to suffer. Most religious people think they are immoral, just like almost all none religious people, almost all religions sanction all of them under some circumstances, this includes Christianity. Most of the people who said in a recent poll conducted in the US that said 'torture is okay' were hard line Christian Fundamentalist.

 

By way of another religious example, take the Taliban. Their repression and bullying of women, their sanctimonious hatred of open sexuality in both women, and homosexuals, their violence, their bigotry, their hatred of education, their cruelty, are all as close to pure evil as you can get. Within their own religion they are supremely righteous, even saintly virtues. The 9/11 bombers, and the 7/7 bombers are considered Martyrs and heroes within most of the Islamic world.

 

Once you understand that they truly believed, so much that they were willing to die, that it was their God Allah's will that they commit these acts, it becomes easy to understand indeed.

 

Steven Weinberg said "With or without [religion] you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.”

 

There's plenty of evidence to support this is true. Yet none that supports that 'Atheism causes evil' or that 'Education makes bad people worse'.

 

That's completely false, and I challenge you to provide any evidence that it's true.

 

More Data:

 

The Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious affiliations of inmates. The following are total number of inmates per religion category: Response, Number, and %

 

Catholic 29267 39.164%

 

Protestant 26162 35.008%

 

Muslim 5435 7.273%

 

American Indian 2408 3.222%

 

Jewish 1325 1.773%

 

Buddhist 882 1.180%

 

Atheist 156 0.209%

 

Hindu 119 0.159%

 

Judeo-Christian Total 62594 83.761%

 

Total Responses 74731

 

Top Twenty Religions in the United States, 2001

(self-identification, ARIS)

 

Total Pop. % of U.S. Pop.,

2000 % Change

1990 - 2000

 

Christianity 151,225,000 159,030,000 224,437,959 76.5% +5%

 

Nonreligious/Secular 13,116,000 27,539,000 38,865,604 13.2% +110%

 

Islam 527,000 1,104,000 1,558,068 0.5% +109%

 

Buddhism 401,000 1,082,000 1,527,019 0.5% +170%

 

Agnostic 1,186,000 991,000 1,398,592 0.5% -16%

 

Atheist 902,000 1,272,986 0.4%

 

Unitarian Universalist 502,000 629,000 887,703 0.3% +25%

 

Humanist 29,000 49,000 69,153 0.02% +69%

 

Deity (Deist) 6,000 49,000 69,153 0.02% +717%

 

The evidence does not support your assertion that Christianity is in any way the 'Guardian of Morals', or even that it has any positive effect upon them at all. In fact, the opposite seems true according to the actual data, both Historical and otherwise.

 

If you're going to try and counter these claims, you need to provide evidence that your claims are true.

 

Yes, Christians sometimes commit charitable acts and do good things. However, that's the same thing as giving community service to a mass murderer. It does not excuse, or explain away any of this. The negatives vastly outweigh the positives here.

 

There is no reason to believe the people who do good things would not be good people without Jesus. In fact, there's plenty of reason to believe that is the case, and that their empathy and charity comes from their Humanity, not their God.

 

They're just giving their religious beliefs credit they don't deserve for things their faith had nothing to do with at all. Religion has a nasty habit of doing that.

 

Being a decent human being doesn't come from belief in God at all. There's no evidence that supports that this is true at all. In fact, the opposite is true.

 

Being a decent human being comes from fostering the simple and human ideas of charity, kindness, and empathy. Things the God of the Bible wouldn't know a thing about.

 

Once again, if you're going to run your mouth, you need to back up what you say. I did. Feel free to provide evidence to support your claims, or don't bother responding, because no one here is going to listen to you or take you remotely seriously if you don't.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Edit:

 

Sigh, another Troll slain. He's officially been intellectually raped. Oh well. Would have been fun to watch him flounder and stammer over this one.

 

Waves is no more. He's requested that his account be deleted.

 

It was fun to bitch slap his stupid unfounded ideas around with actual facts for a while.

[chefranden]

Summary of this discussion to date:

 

"Yo mamma's fat!"

"No she ain't!"

"She is!"

"She ain't!

"Is!"

"Ain't!

"...

[bdp]

...and so it ends - waves has had his account deleted. He has subjective experiences that he sees as 'proof' of god, and you just can't argue those with a person.

[Vigile]

like education ever changed who you are....

 

...said the uneducated boob...

[Vigile]

You mean until i doubt i can't Believe?

 

Don't worry, your beliefs will remain solid and firm. Just make sure you don't run off and get yourself one of those education thingamajiggies though. They really do a number on one's ability to swallow the inane.

[DarthOkkata]

Naw. The conversation is more like this.

 

Waves: "Your mom is fat"

 

Us: "My mom is a model." [Provides photo of hot mom]

 

Waves: Well, I don't believe that's your Mom.

 

Us: I can prove it. [Provides birth certificate, and copy of mother's driver's license.]

 

Waves: Your Mom is still fat. Your proof is invalid because I don't believe in photos or ID cards.

 

Us: You're an idiot. [Mother is standing beside us.]

 

Waves: Even if your mother is here, my magic book says she's fat in unclear terms in the Book of Freddie 12:13. "Verily, Fat bottom girls make the rockin world go round!"

 

Us: What's that got to do with anything? My mother is right here. See for yourself. Not fat.

 

Waves: At least my mom isn't fat like yours, she's not even real.

 

[Mom punches him in the face.]

 

Waves: Fatty!

[Snakefoot]

Naw. The conversation is more like this.

.

.

.

[Mom punches him in the face.]

 

Waves: I reject your reality and substitute my own!!

 

There, fixed that for you.

[Mriana]

That was too funny.

[Robbobrob]

Darth, i think you nailed the thread (and most other fundie vs us threads on here).

[Guest ephymeris]

Waves: At least my mom isn't fat like yours, she's not even real.

 

[Mom punches him in the face.]

 

Waves: Fatty!

 

I lolz'd so hard at this. Waves, you're a mean spirited idiot who can't spell. Go ahead and argue with me but to be fair, I have a lot more written proof of this fact than you do to support your gawd.