Christians...why Bother Us?

[Abiyoyo]

Seriously, won't there be more room in heaven without us?

 

Christianity is not a viable option because I refuse to bow down and worship a god who is:

 

1. Cruel and sadistic

 

2. Not there for me ever, let alone when I need him

 

3. Unable or unwilling to keep his promises

 

 

I believe that Christians bother us out of fear.

 

I went to get saved when I was 16 because of fear. I came to know God out of reality of death. I believe in God/Jesus for the hope of life after I die. I come here for discussion. You let yourself become bothered.

 

1,2,3 are all personal opinions that are just as legitimate as a Christian that says He is the opposite of all those things. That doesn't make the religion not viable.

[Naiya]

lol, I'm not bothered. I was just trying to answer the question about why Christianity is not a viable option.

 

I never said that it's not a viable option for anyone. It should be pretty obvious from my post that I was talking about it only in my own life, not anyone else's. I'm all for everyone believing whatever they want to. I don't see why that's a problem.

[Abiyoyo]

lol, I'm not bothered. I was just trying to answer the question about why Christianity is not a viable option.

 

I never said that it's not a viable option for anyone. It should be pretty obvious from my post that I was talking about it only in my own life, not anyone else's. I'm all for everyone believing whatever they want to. I don't see why that's a problem.

 

It's not.

[MathGeek]

This very thread is what keeps me coming back to defend a position that I think is worthy of defense, that is, defending folks crapped upon by the resident ilk. There is NO enlightenment out of Christianity for these "enlightened" ex-ers, only crappy behavior and more hatred. Again, save me the whining.

 

It's that type of thinking that annoys us, end3. According to what I have heard, Christians are supposed to inform us of "The Good News" and then move on. As I said, I don't go to Christian websites and bombard their boards with my atheistic propaganda. I have a strong inkling that I am not the only one that exhibits this kind of behavior, therefore you should do the same with us.

[MathGeek]

No. Seriously though. You did piss in my flakes man!!!!!!

 

Ok. Your existence does not threaten mine. And how is Christianity not viable? It's as simple as you want to make it.

 

Because "The Lord Giveth and The Lord Taketh Away". God's the most prolofic abortionist there is if really does have the control over who gets to be born. There are more miscarriages (natural abortions) per year than there are medically-sanctioned abortions.

 

Really, it boils down to the problem of evil.

[Thurisaz]

Come on, squiddies!!!!

 

Not a single one wants to comment here.

 

Wow, I am not shocked at all by their lack of moxie.

 

Really there aren't that many around anymore. Way back in the olden days when I could still sort of see my toes, there were many more testing their skills of apology. The board has become almost Christian free.

 

Well "we oldtimers" know what's a large part of the reason. Back in the goo' ol' days no one had to register.

 

Now the cowards are repelled by the obligation to give away any amount of information about themselves.

[MathGeek]

I will say this...the squids were finally brave enough to post in the thread, but yet again they weren't honest enough to admit to themselves that they've done God's work and moved on. Maybe the ones who post the most are the ones who love punishment the most IN THIS LIFE, and since punishment is misery, they need to make us feel miserable and thereby adopt their stunted point-of-view in order to make the world a more uniform place to live.

 

Am I right so far or am I just spewing psychobabble?

[Trike]

Seriously, won't there be more room in heaven without us?

 

Christianity is not a viable option because I refuse to bow down and worship a god who is:

 

1. Cruel and sadistic

 

2. Not there for me ever, let alone when I need him

 

3. Unable or unwilling to keep his promises

 

 

I believe that Christians bother us out of fear.

 

I went to get saved when I was 16 because of fear. I came to know God out of reality of death. I believe in God/Jesus for the hope of life after I die. I come here for discussion. You let yourself become bothered.

 

1,2,3 are all personal opinions that are just as legitimate as a Christian that says He is the opposite of all those things. That doesn't make the religion not viable.

 

Then that Christian is either a liar or too illiterate to read their own holy book. A "god of love" the god of the Bible is not, he promised he would be with his followers always and he is not (as documented by most here and even if you walk into a church you will find those who couldn't find their god in their time of need), the god of the Bible has promised his followers peace within their own minds and has promised that he will always be there and that he would come back for them soon and he has failed at all that.

 

Hence, I can only see it being a viable option if one ignores a good deal of the Bible's actual teaching or remains ignorant about the book itself and its history.

[rayskidude]

We both know the answer don't we?

 

They've become Good Krystchens by making themselves slaves of their cult's dogma and shutting down their brains. They have no life anymore. Their cult is their life. You say or even think anything against their cult, to them it's a personal insult.

 

Morons, all of them.

 

Our Triune God is infinitlely holy, and even though Mankind has and continues to sin against our righteous Creator, yet He took on human nature to become the God-Man in order to provide a gracious sacrifice for our sins, - and after willingly offering Himself to pay for sin on the cross - He rose victoriously from the dead and ascended back into heaven.

 

Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

Col 2:9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

Col 2:10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.

Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

Col 2:14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

Col 2:15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.

 

SO Christains are those who are spiritually alive, and after our physical death (a consequence of sin) we'll be taken into heaven for an eternity of bliss. Because we deserve this destiny? NO - but only by God's grace to us. We simply acknowledged our separation from God due to our sin, and we humbly sought God's mercy to us in our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Thor never existed beyond the quaint little stories people tell themselves in folklore and comic books. And maybe in some operas.

[Deva]

Our Triune God is infinitlely holy, and even though Mankind has and continues to sin against our righteous Creator, yet He took on human nature to become the God-Man in order to provide a gracious sacrifice for our sins, - and after willingly offering Himself to pay for sin on the cross - He rose victoriously from the dead and ascended back into heaven.

 

Prove it by using some source outside of the Bible. Quoting verses at us from a work of fiction isn't going to do it.

 

If your God is infinitly holy, how is it he let sin into his creation. How is it that "sin" exists at all? Don't use the free-will excuse - remember your God is infinite, not bound by conditions of any kind. Or, would you care to re-define the word "infinite" for us?

 

Thor never existed beyond the quaint little stories people tell themselves in folklore and comic books. And maybe in some operas.

 

And Yahweh never existed beyond the quaint little stories in the Bible Babble.

[rayskidude]

Did we piss in your cornflakes? Did we call you in the middle of dinner? Did we rat you out for having an illegal cable subscription?

 

I am all for freedom of speech and religion, yet I am also for the freedom of leaving my neighbors alone.

 

We have minds and we've used them to understand why Christianity is not a viable system of belief and living one's life.

 

How does my existence threaten yours? Is it just the thought that is offensive, much like the thought of two homosexuals being intimate behind closed doors?

 

I sincerely don't understand why you come into our tent and try to inject your noxious "Christian insanity" into our bloodstreams?

 

It gets annoying reading your inane defenses of a tribal sky beast that hasn't done anything useful for humanity since...ever.

 

Did God bother Saul when he knocked him down on the way to Damascus to persecute Christians - and then called him into Christian missions? Did Jesus bother the Pharisees when He condemned their legalism? Did Jesus bother Peter, John, James, and Matthew when He called them to leave their jobs and follow Him? Did Paul bother the Athenians when he told them about the "Unknown God" they had an altar for? And when he told them that Jesus Christ had risen from the dead?

 

True religion bothers the consciences of sinful men - challenging their pride and informing them that they're sinners by nature - separated from a holy God.

 

Jesus even bothered His own followers;

 

Joh 6:57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me.

Joh 6:58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever."

Joh 6:59 Jesus said these things in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.

Joh 6:60 When many of his disciples heard it, they said, "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?"

Joh 6:61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, "Do you take offense at this?

Joh 6:62 Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?

Joh 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Joh 6:64 But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.)

Joh 6:65 And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."

Joh 6:66 After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him.

Joh 6:67 So Jesus said to the Twelve, "Do you want to go away as well?"

Joh 6:68 Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life,

Joh 6:69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God."

 

God bothers us because of His love for us - Christians bother unbelievers from that same love. We're not threatened by unbelievers, we're grieved about their unbelief - and the resultant destiny of unbelief. Ergo - the zeal for evangelism.

[Vigile]

SO Christains are those who are spiritually alive,

 

Funny, when I was still a dedicated believer I was more wracked in guilt and self hatred than alive. Alive is discussing the meaning of life over a bottle of wine with a table full of intelligent Italians. Alive is taking a month to drive across the country without an agenda. Alive is climbing an erupting volcano and then washing off the sweat and humidity in a crock infested pond. Dead, oth, is weeping bitter tears because the holy ghost "convicted" you of having untoward feelings for that hot chick that sits in front of you in Sunday school. Dead is sitting in an office cubicle on a Monday morning at a job you hate. Dead is believing that without the covering of the blood of Christ you are sick and filthy and disgusting. Dead is going through life smug with all the answers to every question.

 

Try living for a change. You might actually surprise yourself.

[Deva]

God bothers us because of His love for us - Christians bother unbelievers from that same love. We're not threatened by unbelievers, we're grieved about their unbelief - and the resultant destiny of unbelief. Ergo - the zeal for evangelism.

 

You are really worried that our blood will be on your hands if you don't preach. It's entirely a guilt thing, don't pretend its love.

[Vigile]

God bothers us because of His love for us - Christians bother unbelievers from that same love. We're not threatened by unbelievers, we're grieved about their unbelief - and the resultant destiny of unbelief. Ergo - the zeal for evangelism.

 

You are really worried that our blood will be on your hands if you don't preach. It's entirely a guilt thing, don't pretend its love.

 

Well, I'll defend some xians here. I do think that a lot of them do it out of love, not just guilt. It's just incredibly misguided and warped love. I've experienced it myself.

[Ouroboros]

Our Triune God is infinitlely holy,

What does "infinitely holy" mean? I'm not sure what it really means at all. Does it mean God cannot sin? Of course he can't, he's the one deciding what is a sin and what is not! If you play a game of chess, and one of the players is allowed to change any and all rules at will, do you think he will win or lose?

 

So really, any kind of description of God becomes rather bland and nondescript. Do you even know what "holy" is? Or can you be sure that your idea of what "holy" is the same as God's view?

 

...and even though Mankind has and continues to sin against our righteous Creator, ...

Enoch was said to have been righteous before God, and other names are named in OT, so maybe it's a sweeping generalization there to say "mankind." Besides that, are we talking about the collective or the individuals?

 

yet He took on human nature to become the God-Man in order to provide a gracious sacrifice for our sins,

God created sin.

God created man.

God planned man to be sinful by planting a tree, completely unnecessary unless it was his plan all along.

God got angry with mankind for being what he planned them to be.

God tries for thousands of years to tell man what he expects them to do. (Like not eating shrimp, and not work on Sundays... very important things to God)

God then sends himself to the world, to be a sacrifice to himself, so he can appease himself and his anger, and so he can be happy with humans again.

But the it's not enough, because the God-sacrifice was not enough to forgive humans, but the humans must believe the writings in 2,000 year old book, and especially Paul, or they can receive this "free" gift.

 

All because God is "holy."

 

- and after willingly offering Himself to pay for sin on the cross - He rose victoriously from the dead and ascended back into heaven.

Sure, what a sacrifice. Bodily death, when his soul was eternal and he knew he was going back (after 36 hours). Yeah... what about those who burn in Hell the last 6,000 years? The people who drowned in the flood, do they suffer more than Jesus or less?

 

Bile-blah-blah...

 

SO Christains are those who are spiritually alive, and after our physical death (a consequence of sin) we'll be taken into heaven for an eternity of bliss. Because we deserve this destiny? NO - but only by God's grace to us. We simply acknowledged our separation from God due to our sin, and we humbly sought God's mercy to us in our Lord Jesus Christ.

You sought God's mercy? You weren't approached by a Christian at some time and educated in these ideas, and then you accepted them? Very few people intentionally go and figure out Christianity on their own and become Christians that way. Most people I've met had someone witness to them first.

 

Thor never existed beyond the quaint little stories people tell themselves in folklore and comic books. And maybe in some operas.

Yes, like Jesus the superman.

[chefranden]

1. God bothers us because of His love for us - Christians bother unbelievers from that same love. 2.We're not threatened by unbelievers, we're grieved about their unbelief - and the resultant destiny of unbelief. Ergo - the zeal for evangelism.

 

1. The OP didn't ask why God bothers us. It asks why you bother us. God being nonexistent cannot bother anyone.

 

2. I call bull shit:

 

Illinois state Rep. Monique Davis’ heated public exchange last Wednesday with atheist activist Rob Sherman over the allocation of $1 million in state funds to repair a church is still going on—fortunately for Sherman, perhaps not so much for Davis—on the Internet, at least.

 

The Chicago Tribune via BoingBoing:

 

Davis: I don’t know what you have against God, but some of us don’t have much against him. We look forward to him and his blessings. And it’s really a tragedy—it’s tragic— when a person who is engaged in anything related to God, they want to fight. They want to fight prayer in school.

 

I don’t see you (Sherman) fighting guns in school. You know?

 

I’m trying to understand the philosophy that you want to spread in the state of Illinois. This is the Land of Lincoln. This is the Land of Lincoln where people believe in God, where people believe in protecting their children…. What you have to spew and spread is extremely dangerous, it’s dangerous—

 

Sherman: What’s dangerous, ma’am?

 

Davis: It’s dangerous to the progression of this state. And it’s dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists! Now you will go to court to fight kids to have the opportunity to be quiet for a minute. But damn if you’ll go to [court] to fight for them to keep guns out of their hands. I am fed up! Get out of that seat!

[centauri]

Our Triune God is infinitlely holy, and even though Mankind has and continues to sin against our righteous Creator, yet He took on human nature to become the God-Man in order to provide a gracious sacrifice for our sins, - and after willingly offering Himself to pay for sin on the cross - He rose victoriously from the dead and ascended back into heaven.

 

But your version of God isn't binding on anyone but yourselves.

You can also advertise your version of God as "Triune", but that contradicts the God defined in the Hebrew scriptures, who repeatedly declared that he was a singular being(no multiple persons), was not a man, and warned his people not to chase after false gods and phony sacrifices.

All you're doing is picking and choosing things about "God" that appeal to you.

Your simply praising your ideas about the object of your worship.

That's the very essence of human vanity and idol worship.

 

Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

Col 2:9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

Col 2:10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.

Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

Col 2:14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

Col 2:15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.

 

All you've got as "proof" are the musings of a character called "Paul", a Jewish apostate that admitted his job was to sell theology by using expediency.

 

SO Christains are those who are spiritually alive, and after our physical death (a consequence of sin) we'll be taken into heaven for an eternity of bliss. Because we deserve this destiny? NO - but only by God's grace to us. We simply acknowledged our separation from God due to our sin, and we humbly sought God's mercy to us in our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

I wouldn't count on being taken to heaven.

"God" doesn't take a liking to those that spit in his face and adopt a feel good religion with candy coated salvation.

Psa 119:155

Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes.

[centauri]

Did God bother Saul when he knocked him down on the way to Damascus to persecute Christians - and then called him into Christian missions?

 

You haven't established that it was God that knocked Saul down.

Paul saw a faceless light which he assumed was "Jesus".

According to Paul, Satan also appears as a light being, so you have very little validation for this tale about "God".

Jesus isn't even God, unless you delete all the verses that clearly show him not being God.

 

Did Jesus bother the Pharisees when He condemned their legalism? Did Jesus bother Peter, John, James, and Matthew when He called them to leave their jobs and follow Him? Did Paul bother the Athenians when he told them about the "Unknown God" they had an altar for? And when he told them that Jesus Christ had risen from the dead?

 

Do the Mormons bother people when they knock on doors doing God's work?

How about the Jehovah's Witnesses?

Do they bother you when they come knocking on your door spreading the truth about God?

 

True religion bothers the consciences of sinful men - challenging their pride and informing them that they're sinners by nature - separated from a holy God.

 

You haven't defined what true religion is, you simply assume that you must be the manifestation of it.

Nor have you established what a "holy God" actually is.

Tell me, if a Roman Catholic priest, a Mormon missionary, a Jehovahs Witness, and an evangelical Protestant all go down to Brazil and butt into the lives of rain forest indians, which ass should the native indian kiss in order to learn how to be saved from their terrible pride and sins?

Who is more prideful, the ones that want to push their version of reality on others, or the ones that are seen as targets for church expansion?

 

God bothers us because of His love for us - Christians bother unbelievers from that same love. We're not threatened by unbelievers, we're grieved about their unbelief - and the resultant destiny of unbelief. Ergo - the zeal for evangelism.

 

This type of "love" is a facade.

Your goal is to expand and your zeal is to dominate.

[Kuroikaze]

Thor never existed beyond the quaint little stories people tell themselves in folklore and comic books. And maybe in some operas.

 

The same could easily be said of your god.

 

There is no evidence that your god exists. If he is here he is welcome to provide evidence of his existence any time he pleases.

[Kuroikaze]

True religion bothers the consciences of sinful men - challenging their pride and informing them that they're sinners by nature - separated from a holy God.

 

So you are arguing that Christianity is true BECAUSE some people think it is false? Wow the logic train really derailed on that one.

 

I'll ignore the veiled insult, we have already established you are a bigoted SOB.

Doesn't matter if they aren't christian or aren't American...they aren't like you so they must be horrible people.

 

God bothers us because of His love for us - Christians bother unbelievers from that same love. We're not threatened by unbelievers, we're grieved about their unbelief - and the resultant destiny of unbelief. Ergo - the zeal for evangelism.

 

God has never bothered me once...certain Christians on the other hand.

 

And don't be bothered about my "destiny." Even if everything you say is true, I'm pretty sure if people like you are gonna be in heaven I'm not gonna want to be there...or with the god who let you in.

[hereticzero]

Questioning authority is contagious. Christians assume that authority over everything is theirs and they have an opinion about everything--based on the babble, of course. Christians have to debate atheists and other nonbelievers, it is part of the church doctrine to give an answer about what they believe when asked and to spread the word to us poor slobs that no longer believe. They spend so much time fighting with each other that they are losing members left and right as more and more xtians come to their senses.

[hereticzero]

Iesus cannot be a sacrifice for humanity. The doctrine of Iesus as a perfect sacrifice demonstrates how far out of touch Christians are with the gospel of Iesus.

 

According to the babble, God desires mercy and not sacrifice:

But go and learn what this is, I will have mercy and not sacrifice. For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Mat 9:13)

 

But if you had known what this is, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice," you would not have condemned those who are not guilty. (Mat 12:7)

 

For I desired mercy and not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. (Hos 6:6)

 

With all of the scriptures pointing away from Iesus as a perfect sacrifice, how do Christians reconcile the doctrine of sacrifice? This is what I hear most from Christians--the sacrifice Iesus made for our sins. Bullshit!

[Ramen666]

I thought the answer for this question was to get brownie points for Jesus.

[Astreja]

Thor never existed beyond the quaint little stories people tell themselves in folklore and comic books. And maybe in some operas.

I beg to differ. I am of the opinion that the Æsir and Vanir were actual people, later turned into "gods" by their descendants.

 

So as far as I'm concerned, Thorr is My little brother. I'll thank you not to dis My family.

[Thurisaz]

Thor never existed beyond the quaint little stories people tell themselves in folklore and comic books. And maybe in some operas.

 

Well I don't claim to have hard evidence for the existence of Thor (or Odin, or Freya, or Frigga, or... or...), and even if I had, I probably wouldn't want to try and convince/convert people who are perfectly happy with what they do (not) believe. You however run around in here telling people they are wrong and you are right.

 

Present your evidence for the existence of your four gawds (bubba, daddy, spook and saaataaan) and for the trustworthiness of da wholly babble... or go fuck yourself.

Message understood?