Amethyst Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I heard someone say that religion is like sex. It's not an issue unless you're not getting what you want from it. LMAO! But it's so true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I think many Christians deconvert, but don't realize that's what they did and keep calling themselves Christians because they don't know what else to do, or because admitting they aren't a Christian isn't socially acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstInTheDance Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I don't think it is all that common for Christians to leave the flock. I personally don't know any in the outside world. I mean, I know there are, of course, but I'm the only person I know who was once devout that now views it as poppycock. I've tried to figure it out, and I think maybe, more than anything, it boils down to a sincere desire to know the TRUTH. Even if I don't like it. Even if it wasn't warm and fuzzy. I mean, there are lots of Christians who are intelligent - but they compartmentalize when it comes to religion. There are lots of Christians who know the Bible and somehow remain Christians. Sure, Chef is right...most probably don't read it. Most probably grew up accepting that it was the Truth and never really thinking about it - but there are the deep thinkers who remain Christian, the Bible Scholars who know full well what it says and rationalize and twist it to their liking so that they can live with their religion. Most Christians, it seems to me, are like children who stick their fingers in their ears. They don't WANT anything to mess with their worldview. It makes them extremely uncomfortable to be asked hard questions about their faith. They don't want to see the inconsistencies. Me, I wanted to continue to believe, but a.) I'm intelligent. b.) I'm pretty familiar with the Bible and many things in it bothered me. c.) No one could give me a satisfactory answer to any of my questions. d.) I wanted the TRUTH. I realized that wanting something to be true and having it BE true are two different things. I decided to allow myself to read BOTH sides of the argument - another thing most Christians don't do - with an open mind and really try to look at things objectively. I saw that the Athiests always clearly won the debates. I saw how Christians - who supposedly take the Bible literally - often had to twist the Bible to make it acceptable even to them. I mean, how often do they read a sentence and then attempt to translate it? It says this, but what it MEANS is this... I was tired of the rationalizations, and I realized that I'd been suckered. So, in my case at least, deconversion came when I decided to be honest with myself and accept the truth from an unbiased standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QuidEstCaritas? Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 In addition to what Chef said...(smashing good post, that) You have to also consider that the majority of the population does not ACTIVELY think. They are so busy getting from one day to the next, surfing one life crisis to the next, concentrating on certain career goals and whatnot....they just never stop to even consider that they can wind up with contradictory views rattling around in the same brain over time, and since these views are never examined (until someone points it out...and then you just get panicky defensiveness from them), this is how you wind up with people claiming to be christians, who go to church and sit every Sunday, who are HS science teachers. Any one of US would have noted long ago, that the belief system doesn't match the career goal, and we would have mulled that over for a bit. Most people really don't mull, and considering the reactions we've gotten when we provide material that DEMANDS thought to die-hard christians who come here...I'd go far enough to say most people do not LIKE thinking too hard about how the majority of their modern life is in direct contradiction to the 613 Laws (whittled neatly and "magically" down to 10...which the majority of christians STILL F*** up and find to be too many) laid down. Most would not admit it, but their "belief" is a compromised version of christianity they cobble together by half-listening to the guy behind the pulpit (and nothing to do with bible pages actually picked up and read). And when the guy behind the pulpit says something that conflicts with even the compromised belief system? Is it time to re-examine one's life? Nope. Obviously time to find a new church by gum! I have a feeling most people who would identify themselves as christian believe in the historical validity of evolution at the SAME time! Socrates once said that the unexamined life is not worth living. I think most thinkers would agree with that summation in regards themselves and their own lives, but not everyone is a "thinker". I am, but that doesn't mean that others are and it is evident to me that their life IS worth living to them. It seems like denying people who are rabidly religious any effective means to go beyond a certain point in violating separation of powers works very well. I think that public education needs to be seriously revamped, but I also think it is a good vehicle to denigrate efforts to indoctrinate children by those who are religious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.blue.nation Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Very intriguing question and have thought of that too from time to time. I think that most ex-christians are not overtly open about it. From my observation of people, family and friends over the years it seems almost like a slow and subtle process of disillusionment and awkwardness complicated with feelings of guilt, rationalization and private detachment. People just go to church less and less and just move on. With the exception of some charismatic churches maybe, if you walk into most evangelical christian churches on any given sunday morning, you will see most of the people are in the twilight years of their life, a handful of middle aged folks with children/teens there just because their parents took them. In all honesty most Americans with similar sentiments as ours, just don't give a fu*k anymore and just go on about their lives, jobs, families, etc... As one other member mentioned, I think were just pissed LOL. I'll be honest, as an ex-evangelist and heavily involved in the ministry...I am mad and want to be vocal against what is corrupt about the false myth of Xtianity. People should know the truth and glad we have this site! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I also think personal experience factors into the deconversion process greatly. I was emotionally robbed first and it was only the suffering became totally unbearable that I started searching out the other side of the belief fence. It was my way of dealing with the personal pain. How many personal tragedies have kept people in the pews and rolling on the floor, speaking what amounts to neo-gibberish? I have discussed the issue of miscarriage and child death with other people and I have concluded that such overpowering events will cause people to act in ways they are emotionally-driven, not logically drawn out. To some degree, I can't fault a father who's lost 3 potential children for having faith since it's assisted him in moving on from the tragedies. That may be a reason why the lukewarm ones stay in the pews. Because humans beings aren't robots, that is why Christianity is still the viable, viral meme it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 It has been my experience as a dedicated Christian that most Christians are pew sitters and don't give what they are believing much thought. They leave that to the professionals much like they leave the study of medicine to the professionals. My brother inlaw is what I consider to be extremely intelligent. I asked him once why he believed, with all the contradictions, hell fire, all that mess. He said he just does not think about it.. They way he explained it, was he was raised to not question, he was happy with it, made his parents happy, so basically his logic was "if it aint broke dont fix it"... I think this sums up why lots of otherwise intelligent folks stay in it, they simple just dont bother to think it over. Pascals wager is also something else he eluded to, amazing how many people take that wager seriously. He feels if hes right he goes to heaven, and if hes wrong, no harm done, he will just go where I go (IE nowhere), but if hes right "I" burn and he goes to heaven. Explaining how stupid that logic is many times has zero effect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 They way he explained it, was he was raised to not question, That doesn't sound like a very intelligent answer or position to take to me. It boggles my mind that an intelligent person can not feel the need to question. When I think of a person who doesn't normally like to question things I think of George Bush. I'm not saying that's your BiL. His position in this department is not very far removed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 My brother inlaw is what I consider to be extremely intelligent. I asked him once why he believed, with all the contradictions, hell fire, all that mess. He said he just does not think about it.. They way he explained it, was he was raised to not question, he was happy with it, made his parents happy, so basically his logic was "if it aint broke dont fix it"... I think this sums up why lots of otherwise intelligent folks stay in it, they simple just dont bother to think it over. My wife, who I think is very intelligent as well, and I were having a bedtime conversation about this very issue. She hates thinking deeply and she doesn't like to be bothered with the penetrating questions either. I also explained that my deconversion likely more emotionally driven by anything else, so by telling her that, I basically reduced my atheism to the very definition that Christians love to push forth in debates with us. Deconverting while being married to an apathetic believer is a hard experience to go through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Deconverting while being married to an apathetic believer is a hard experience to go through. Tell me about it, this was a big factor in the decay of our relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaraOlive Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I went to a fundamentalist Christian school, and I only know one other true deconvert. There are some back-sliders who don't go to church or don't even think about God on a daily basis, but still identify themselves as Christians. There are many who have gone from being fundamentalists to being liberal Christians (which I think is an improvement). And there seem to be a lot of girls who weren't very religious in school- they seemed to be going through the motions, but then they had babies and now they're card carrying members of their church. There's a big family and friend support system in being religious though. I can see why they would want to not leave and be lonely like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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