Yeah I'm A Christian, So What?

[Auracle]

I choose to live with reality, faith is a crippling what if life style. It teaches you to hate any and all choices. Teaches you your not worthy for anything, it promotes self loathing, and loathing of those not like you. Why bother worshiping anything that tortures you for ETERNITY if you don't kiss his ass enough? Are you for real? I'll never worship a tyrant, or an evil tribal god who creates life only to burn and torture it if they don't walk the mysterious tight rope of the ever changing rules. (if your going by the Buybull)

 

Haha, love it, that's awesome - I ended up thinking of about the same analogy. I decided that as hard as tight rope walking is, they've actually got it relatively easy, because they can actually see the damn rope and where they're supposed to go!

[Onyx]

Mouse, I'm not scared of you. Fuck off.

[Paladin]

Ok, looks like Plastic mouse has ran off scared like a... well a mouse! Oh what the Hell. I'll bite anyway.

 

For those of you who no longer believe. What are you SO scared of?

Us scared? We are the ones that decided to challenge the crap we read in the bible and the bullshit preached to us by church leaders. For many of us to take that step out of the comfortable Christian delusion was a very brave one. It takes a lot of guts to tell fellow Christians you are no longer a Christian. For many it is a heartbreaking thing to have to go through, but we had the guts to do it. And because of it we are better people. Would you have the guts to challenge your church leaders? Would you dare question the bible? Would you dare challenge God? I think not. So who is the one who is scared?

 

You don't "allow" Christians in here. You think we are so awful we will "corrupt" those who no longer believe?

Most Christians I knew seemed like decent people. Deluded, but decent. People like yourself though aren't so nice and I doubt we could even consider you a "true Christian" anyway. Chances are you are not a Christian at all and you are just trying to make Christians look bad. It's sad that there are so many like you on the Net.

 

You hate that Christians try to show unbelievers that Christ died for them, that they have the opportunity to be born again.

Hate? A very strong word. How can you hate some person you don't even know? But I don't blame people for getting pissed off at proselytizers like yourself. For many of us we have had that crap all our lives. Why would we want more of it? This is a website to come to to avoid that sort of crap. Do you go to church so that you can have atheists come in and try to deconvert you?

What exactly is it that YOU are doing? Are not not shoving your lack of beliefs on others? Are you not bashing Christians? Are you not trying to shove us out of the way so you can persuade people not to believe?

I'm not sure I know of any Christian that has been banned from here. I guess there are the odd few, but I'd safely say that the majority of Christians who have come through here have left not through being banned, but have fled with their tails between their legs when they find their beliefs challenged beyond what they can come up with bullshit to defend. No doubt you will be (and probably already are) one of these such Christians. Oh yes young Skywalker, I can sense much fear in you. Scared?

 

What IF you're wrong? What if God is real. What if he's not only real, but what if the general Christian perception of Him is real and what if you will be held accountable to Him one day? Has it occurred to you that you might someday be held accountable to those who you are trying to convince God does not believe. It's so sad to me that those of you who are on the edge of losing your faith, are being persuaded by people who lost their faith. Why should others lose their faith just because you no longer have it??

Many of us have been Christians for many many years and we are well aware of the fear tactics employed to keep people in the faith. We have had to break free from those bonds. So sorry but your tactics are not going to work. Using Pascal's Wager is not going to impress anyone here. What is a real concern for many of us here are people like yourself who think that people should be persuaded to join the Christian delusion. To worship a genocidal deity who employs eternal torture on those who are simply unable to believe; A horrible being whose blood lust is so great he requires human sacrifice to enable himself to wash away sin. Why should others be suckered into your delusion just because you believe it?

 

Those of you who are ex Christians don't know everything.

Maybe not, but many of us were in the Christian delusion for many years. Some their whole lives and they have learnt just what a crock it all is. They have found the bible can't be relied upon and that the bible God does not keep his promises.

 

What's my view? I believe it's up to the person to decide their faith and what they believe in. If people believe in God because of me, then they can easily be swayed down the road.

How does someone decide to have faith in something they don't believe in? Get real. You either believe or you don't. You can't force yourself to believe something. Try forcing yourself to believe you can fly and then jump of a 30 story building. Bet you can't. You however are either here to gain converts or to stir. Perhaps you want to earn brownie points with your lord by drawing one or more of us back to the delusion. Maybe you want us to hate Christians more? Or perhaps you want to suffer for Christ and then be able to go back to a Christian message board and claim you were presecuted here. You will no doubt feel very smug and self-righteous and you will endorse the incorrect steriotypes you and your fellow Christians have on unbelievers.

 

And if you are all so convinsed God isn't real, then leave this open to debate. As other Chrsitian forums do, leave the door open for discussion. If you don't beleive in God, then don't pretend to be Him.

Have you actually looked through many of the threads here? If so, you'd see there is lots of discussion even with Christians about Christianity. Over the 2-3 years I've been here I have not seen anyone try to be God except for Christians. They seem to think that by claiming they are God's spokepeople that somehow what they say carries weight. Whatever. You definitely won't see any ex-

Christians trying to speak for God.

 

 

Great Post!!!!

Thanks!

Paladin!

[Ouroboros]

.actually I pop in on ocassion just to keep Hans Solo straight and yes I remember, we all do that on ocassion...

You're damn right! This website would be a mess if we didn't have a few responsible member keeping me in check.

[Heimdall]

This website would be a mess if we didn't have a few responsible member keeping me in check.

Hell, it's a tough and dirty job, but someone has to do it...LOL

[Robbobrob]

Mouse you little sh....

 

How dare you....

 

I'm not scar.....

 

Oh, why bother.

 

RAmen.

[Guest KristenLVSU]

"You're right I hate the spreading of fear and make believe dogma. I detest it more then I can express here. Fear causes people to be irrational and unpredictable, How about you worship in silence like your bible teaches? Why do you feel the need to spread your hate filled dogma here?"

 

Hate/detest... very strong words. They imply fear and they leave little room for flexibility (almost dogmatic). Those words make me sad.

 

I was raised "public school Christian" I knew the concepts, I went to church on the big holidays, I believed in God. But I didn't ever get too big into Christianity or the Bible. And I was ridiculously arrogant. I thought it was wrong to judge, but I "judged" all Christians as judgemental. I acted so humble when it came to my looks, my grades, my faith... but still I think I somehow saw my self as "better than" because I didn't buy into all the Christian judgement of women, homosexuality, etc. But I did buy into all the anti-Christian judgement of Christians. There is no difference. I was a hypocrite.

 

Yes there are some people out there who call themselves as Christians and who use the bible as a shield. No, as a weapon... so they can blanketly condemn (much easier) and don't have to try to understand any other viewpoints. But there are others who love. Just as there are agnostics who may be very caring individuals and others who hide behind science textbooks. I read the first post again. And I don't believe he is on here to judge anyone's faith, or to "troll." Perhaps a little more thought and care could have gone into what was written, a little more consideration of how it might have been interpreted, but not everyone's a writer. But let's be honest, if he were the Christian you fear he is... he wouldn't waste time on here. He'd be busy quoting bible verses on samesex dating websites or muslim forums and twisting them into hatefulness. I believe he's on here because he really does care, and shows his care by showing us something that is very important to him. I think that takes a lot of courage. I imagine this particular post was probably an emotional response to trying to do just that and being told something along the lines of "How about you worship in silence like your bible teaches?" Granted, emotional responses aren't always the most effective way to communicate, but we're all human, and we all have them. And I'll forgive yours right along with his.

 

You said "faith is a crippling what if life style. It teaches you to hate any and all choices. Teaches you your not worthy for anything, it promotes self loathing, and loathing of those not like you." I am extremely sorry for whoever or whatever in your life has taught you to believe that. Faith to me is like a story. Whether it inspires you and lifts you up, or whether it leaves you confused and depressed, that doesn't just depend on the story. It also depends on how its written and how its read. If I had read the diary of Anne Frank through the eyes of a holocost denier or as someone who had been told the author was a schizophrenic, if I had been looking for inconsistancies and lies, I bet I could have found some. But then... I would have missed the whole point of the story, and that would have been quite a loss indeed. Earlier in my life, it was all I could do to resist the beliefs, faith ideals and ideologies that I saw as dragging my spirit down. But now that I'm good at that, I think it's time for me to find a faith that lifts me up, one that lifts up those around me and at the very least doesn't hurt anyone else. I think it's out there.

 

I'd like to give some advice. You don't have to take it (free will and all). But if you're on here as a Christian soldier, if you really care about sharing your faith with those that lack it... please keep in mind that a lot of the folks on here are hurting or have been hurt by people who call themselves Christian. Approach delicately and with love and respect. Trying to "win" an argument only affirms that there is a fight, and drives them further from the God you are trying to serve. And if you're on here as someone who lacks faith, try to understand that just like not all athiests are evil... not all Christians lack reason and compassion. If you've asked God for answers and gotten none so far, be open to the possibility that He still may be trying to give them to you.

 

I love you all for trying, though. You've got more in common than you may realize. You're both on here because you realize how traumatic certain kinds of faith (or a lack of any faith at all) can be. You're trying to find out why, and you're both trying to prevent others from sufferring. A lot of people are content to stay home and watch project runway with their brains completely off. A lot of people chose not to discuss faith at all because it seems impolite. You have a lot more in common than you realize. Both sides could learn a lot if we all try to really listen and speak from our hearts.

 

-kristen

[Neon Genesis]

I was raised "public school Christian" I knew the concepts, I went to church on the big holidays, I believed in God. But I didn't ever get too big into Christianity or the Bible. And I was ridiculously arrogant. I thought it was wrong to judge, but I "judged" all Christians as judgemental. I acted so humble when it came to my looks, my grades, my faith... but still I think I somehow saw my self as "better than" because I didn't buy into all the Christian judgement of women, homosexuality, etc. But I did buy into all the anti-Christian judgement of Christians. There is no difference. I was a hypocrite.

 

Yes there are some people out there who call themselves as Christians and who use the bible as a shield. No, as a weapon... so they can blanketly condemn (much easier) and don't have to try to understand any other viewpoints. But there are others who love. Just as there are agnostics who may be very caring individuals and others who hide behind science textbooks. I read the first post again.

How is it anti-Christian for people to call out homophobic and sexist Christians out on their bigotry? That's like saying we're being intolerent of intolerance, which makes no sense. You wouldn't say that black people are being racist for standing up to whites that enslaved them would you? Yet for some reason if a Christian or non-Christian stands up to homophobia and sexism that's suddenly intolerance to stand up for freedom. Isn't it hypocritical for you to claiming that Christians who support gay rights and women's rights are being judgmental towards those that don't, then turn around and judge them when you were just complaining about judgmental people? And your claim that there's no difference between people who support gay and women's rights and homophobic and sexist people is like saying there's no difference between racist people and people who are against slavery.

 

And I don't believe he is on here to judge anyone's faith, or to "troll."

How is it not judgmental for him to condemn all of us here to hell because we don't believe in his claim? Or are you one of those hypocritical "love the sinner, hate the sin" Christians?

 

But let's be honest, if he were the Christian you fear he is... he wouldn't waste time on here. He'd be busy quoting bible verses on samesex dating websites or muslim forums and twisting them into hatefulness. I believe he's on here because he really does care, and shows his care by showing us something that is very important to him. I think that takes a lot of courage.

If he's really courageous, why hasn't he been back here since his opening post? How his post any different than a Christian quoting bible verses on Muslim forums?

 

 

Both sides could learn a lot if we all try to really listen and speak from our hearts.

 

-kristen

So, why don't you practice what you preach?

[Kuroikaze]

I was raised "public school Christian" I knew the concepts, I went to church on the big holidays, I believed in God. But I didn't ever get too big into Christianity or the Bible. And I was ridiculously arrogant. I thought it was wrong to judge, but I "judged" all Christians as judgemental. I acted so humble when it came to my looks, my grades, my faith... but still I think I somehow saw my self as "better than" because I didn't buy into all the Christian judgement of women, homosexuality, etc. But I did buy into all the anti-Christian judgement of Christians. There is no difference. I was a hypocrite.

 

I appreciate what you are trying to do here, but I don't agree with you completely.

 

Think about it like this. If a member of the KKK comes to you and says "black people are inherently inferior" would you refrain from judging them? Would you respect their right to that opinion without trying to correct it? I sure as hell wouldn't. I view the traditional take on homosexuality no different than the KKK's view of blacks and jews.

 

It is bigotry pure and simple, and If you ask me if I am "better than" people who hold those views then, yes, I think I am. Does this make me judgmental? Perhaps, but we can't live life without judging things, we cannot function without judging certain things as bad and others as good.

 

Perhaps this makes me appear to be a jerk to some Christians, so be it. I doubt members of the KKK would find me amicable company either. We can't make everyone happy, and we can't get along with everyone, unless we simply refuse to take a stand on ANY issue at all. I just can't live like that.

 

You weren't being a hypocrite IMO.

 

Yes there are some people out there who call themselves as Christians and who use the bible as a shield. No, as a weapon... so they can blanketly condemn (much easier) and don't have to try to understand any other viewpoints. But there are others who love. Just as there are agnostics who may be very caring individuals and others who hide behind science textbooks. I read the first post again. And I don't believe he is on here to judge anyone's faith, or to "troll." Perhaps a little more thought and care could have gone into what was written, a little more consideration of how it might have been interpreted, but not everyone's a writer. But let's be honest, if he were the Christian you fear he is... he wouldn't waste time on here. He'd be busy quoting bible verses on samesex dating websites or muslim forums and twisting them into hatefulness. I believe he's on here because he really does care, and shows his care by showing us something that is very important to him. I think that takes a lot of courage. I imagine this particular post was probably an emotional response to trying to do just that and being told something along the lines of "How about you worship in silence like your bible teaches?" Granted, emotional responses aren't always the most effective way to communicate, but we're all human, and we all have them. And I'll forgive yours right along with his.

 

No, he was rude, disobeyed the forum rules, made false accusations and then attempted to use typical fear tactics to get people to reconvert. Then rather than have a conversation he ran out, which is decidedly troll like behavior.

 

You are new her so you wouldn't know, but we have people like this come through every few months....perhaps on his way to quote bible verses on a same sex dating site

 

You said "faith is a crippling what if life style. It teaches you to hate any and all choices. Teaches you your not worthy for anything, it promotes self loathing, and loathing of those not like you." I am extremely sorry for whoever or whatever in your life has taught you to believe that. Faith to me is like a story. Whether it inspires you and lifts you up, or whether it leaves you confused and depressed, that doesn't just depend on the story. It also depends on how its written and how its read. If I had read the diary of Anne Frank through the eyes of a holocost denier or as someone who had been told the author was a schizophrenic, if I had been looking for inconsistancies and lies, I bet I could have found some. But then... I would have missed the whole point of the story, and that would have been quite a loss indeed. Earlier in my life, it was all I could do to resist the beliefs, faith ideals and ideologies that I saw as dragging my spirit down. But now that I'm good at that, I think it's time for me to find a faith that lifts me up, one that lifts up those around me and at the very least doesn't hurt anyone else. I think it's out there.

 

Faith is a word that can be defined many different ways. I tend to define it as a belief that is not founded in reasonable evidence. Which is similar to the way the person you responded to was speaking of faith. You seem to be defining faith in a very different way, so in a sense you are talking past him.

 

He was specifically responding to the original posters claim of "what if Christianity is true," so you are kinda speaking out of context here.

 

I'd like to give some advice. You don't have to take it (free will and all). But if you're on here as a Christian soldier, if you really care about sharing your faith with those that lack it... please keep in mind that a lot of the folks on here are hurting or have been hurt by people who call themselves Christian. Approach delicately and with love and respect. Trying to "win" an argument only affirms that there is a fight, and drives them further from the God you are trying to serve. And if you're on here as someone who lacks faith, try to understand that just like not all athiests are evil... not all Christians lack reason and compassion.

 

He is gone, so I doubt he will read your words. As far as we are concerned, I am quite aware that Christians have reason and compassion. That doesn't mean I won't call them on it when they do stupid shit, just like anyone else.

 

If you've asked God for answers and gotten none so far, be open to the possibility that He still may be trying to give them to you.

 

I've been an atheist for 5 years so sorry I'm not really "open" to that possibility. I know you are trying to be understanding and compassionate so I'll clue you in that making a statement like this is liable to piss off some people on here. The more recent deconverts most certainly.

 

I've been out for years and my first reaction was to think "you have a lot of damn gall saying that, you don't know anything about me." 3 or 4 years ago I probably would have went off on you. ;

 

I love you all for trying, though. You've got more in common than you may realize. You're both on here because you realize how traumatic certain kinds of faith (or a lack of any faith at all) can be. You're trying to find out why, and you're both trying to prevent others from sufferring. A lot of people are content to stay home and watch project runway with their brains completely off. A lot of people chose not to discuss faith at all because it seems impolite. You have a lot more in common than you realize. Both sides could learn a lot if we all try to really listen and speak from our hearts.

 

I don't really like to speak from my "heart" on topics like this. I find its much more beneficial to speak from my head. It allows me to deal objectively with the issues.

 

Speaking as a former fundamentalist, I have to say you are wrong in your estimation that they are trying to prevent suffering. fundamentalism is not concerned with human suffering, but with pleasing god. I remember having conversations with others as a fundy about how annoying humanists were for thinking that morality had anything to do with human happiness.

"Morality is about doing what God wants" I would say. It still makes me sick to think I thought such things.

 

I don't have any problem speaking rationally with Christians who want to speak rationally, but there are very few of those from the fundamentalist/evangelical camp.

[ghostchild]

Hate/detest... very strong words. They imply fear and they leave little room for flexibility (almost dogmatic). Those words make me sad.

 

You're right. Hate leaves little room for flexibility, but Kristen, you have got to understand that there is very, very little room for flexibility in some areas. If Christianity is spread through doctrines that promote fear and intolerance, when people are raised in fear and ignorance, isolated from educational tools and the outside world, I find myself hating those who are responsible, and even more, hating the methods themselves very very passionately. I have nothing but pity for those locked into such beliefs, but where the perpetrators are concerned, I hate very hard. I am not flexible in this area, because I think that every single child needs to grow up in a world free of that sort of hate and guilt and exclusion and holier than thou arrogance.

 

Some christians, the quiet majority perhaps, exist in a quiet state of belief and faith, and do their best to live by rules of peace and mercy. I have no problem with them, and most people on this site have no hate or anger towards such people, but when religion is forced at us, screamed at us, or other people, I do become angry, because nobody has the right to try to make me go back *there* to that hell.

 

 

 

I was raised "public school Christian" I knew the concepts, I went to church on the big holidays, I believed in God. But I didn't ever get too big into Christianity or the Bible. And I was ridiculously arrogant. I thought it was wrong to judge, but I "judged" all Christians as judgemental. I acted so humble when it came to my looks, my grades, my faith... but still I think I somehow saw my self as "better than" because I didn't buy into all the Christian judgement of women, homosexuality, etc. But I did buy into all the anti-Christian judgement of Christians. There is no difference. I was a hypocrite.

 

I think judging is a very useful tool. By using our good judgment we can draw on past experience to work out whether to trust and follow or befriend those around us. When someone is sexist, homophobic, racist, etc, my judgment tells me that they are dangerous to me, that they don't hold the same values as me and are therefore working, actively or passively, against the world I want to live in. Perhaps the story of their life makes the beliefs they hold make sense to them, and I love them as human beings, neither better nor worse than myself, but that doesn't mean I need to tolerate their bad behavior. This is what judgment is for.

 

 

Yes there are some people out there who call themselves as Christians and who use the bible as a shield. No, as a weapon... so they can blanketly condemn (much easier) and don't have to try to understand any other viewpoints. But there are others who love. Just as there are agnostics who may be very caring individuals and others who hide behind science textbooks. I read the first post again. And I don't believe he is on here to judge anyone's faith, or to "troll." Perhaps a little more thought and care could have gone into what was written, a little more consideration of how it might have been interpreted, but not everyone's a writer. But let's be honest, if he were the Christian you fear he is... he wouldn't waste time on here. He'd be busy quoting bible verses on samesex dating websites or muslim forums and twisting them into hatefulness. I believe he's on here because he really does care, and shows his care by showing us something that is very important to him. I think that takes a lot of courage. I imagine this particular post was probably an emotional response to trying to do just that and being told something along the lines of "How about you worship in silence like your bible teaches?" Granted, emotional responses aren't always the most effective way to communicate, but we're all human, and we all have them. And I'll forgive yours right along with his.

 

I believe the initial poster was sincere, but that only makes it worse. He deliberately ignored the rules of the forum, and marched straight into the safe space of those people who's pain is rawest, the testimonies forum, in order to loudly proclaim our ignorance and shove the fear and guilt back in our faces. He accused us, chaotic and senseless though the accusation was, of actively bashing christianity as if we were going out to convert people to Atheism. This forum is not, initially, a debate forum. it's a support group for survivors of christianity. We aren't here to go convert others, but if someone wants to come here and ask hard questions in order to learn, they will often get a response that is well thought out and patient, even if they show no desire to leave their faith. The lion's den is the one place where angry debate is acceptable, and he chose deliberately not to post there. This thread was moved here later, because this is where it belonged.

 

I have the right to tell people what I believe if they directly ask me about it. Can you argue that point? If I went to a christian forum and asked what they believed, I am pretty damn sure they'd tell me in no uncertain terms. We here at Ex-C do the same, and Plastic_mouse18 attacked us for that. Its our forum and we didn't go looking for christians to attack, they just bloody show up here. We don't kick them out, but we *do* tell them the truth about what we know. Plastic_mouse18 tried to tell us all that we were going to hell for doing that, which was pretty offensive. Many people got angry. I think it was a fair response to extremely rude behavior.

 

You said "faith is a crippling what if life style. It teaches you to hate any and all choices. Teaches you your not worthy for anything, it promotes self loathing, and loathing of those not like you." I am extremely sorry for whoever or whatever in your life has taught you to believe that. Faith to me is like a story. Whether it inspires you and lifts you up, or whether it leaves you confused and depressed, that doesn't just depend on the story. It also depends on how its written and how its read. If I had read the diary of Anne Frank through the eyes of a holocost denier or as someone who had been told the author was a schizophrenic, if I had been looking for inconsistancies and lies, I bet I could have found some. But then... I would have missed the whole point of the story, and that would have been quite a loss indeed. Earlier in my life, it was all I could do to resist the beliefs, faith ideals and ideologies that I saw as dragging my spirit down. But now that I'm good at that, I think it's time for me to find a faith that lifts me up, one that lifts up those around me and at the very least doesn't hurt anyone else. I think it's out there.

 

Faith is a personal choice. On this forum, many reject all faith, but there is a place here, I think, for people with whatever personal faith they may hold, especially those who have had to rebuild their spirituality after leaving christianity. I doubt many here would attack you or anyone for holding faith in their heart, as long as that's where it stays. As you have experienced, it can be very hard to grow a spirituality when hardcore religion is being shoved at a person, and it is that concept of religion and conversion and evangelism that is rejected so strongly here. Have whatever faith you wish, but if we do not want to discuss it with you, please accept that or an angry backlash will result.

 

Enforced religion is what I'm so damn angry about, and when someone attacks my right to be angry at being forced to practice a religion, to be brainwashed into following beliefs I wasn't old enough to understand, I get angry at them too. If you aren't doing any of that, I don't care what you believe.

 

 

I'd like to give some advice. You don't have to take it (free will and all). But if you're on here as a Christian soldier, if you really care about sharing your faith with those that lack it... please keep in mind that a lot of the folks on here are hurting or have been hurt by people who call themselves Christian. Approach delicately and with love and respect. Trying to "win" an argument only affirms that there is a fight, and drives them further from the God you are trying to serve. And if you're on here as someone who lacks faith, try to understand that just like not all athiests are evil... not all Christians lack reason and compassion. If you've asked God for answers and gotten none so far, be open to the possibility that He still may be trying to give them to you.

 

I had no problem with this paragraph until the last sentence. You need to understand, Kristen, that many of us here are not open to that possibility at all, any more than your average christian is open to the possibility of Thor smiting them for not partying hard enough on weekends. They seem quite equally likely concepts to me, and to many of us. I'm not open to the toothfaeire or Santa Claus, either. they don't exist, and neither does god. In the decades I was in christianity, God never, never spoke to me or gave me answers. the answers I got meant nothing, and came from human mouths that told lies.

 

I love you all for trying, though. You've got more in common than you may realize. You're both on here because you realize how traumatic certain kinds of faith (or a lack of any faith at all) can be. You're trying to find out why, and you're both trying to prevent others from sufferring. A lot of people are content to stay home and watch project runway with their brains completely off. A lot of people chose not to discuss faith at all because it seems impolite. You have a lot more in common than you realize. Both sides could learn a lot if we all try to really listen and speak from our hearts.

 

-kristen

 

If people come here, and post sane, logical questions to us, written in an inoffensive manner, we do our best to reply honestly, if that question hasn't been repeated 40 or 50 times by other posters in the last little while. In other words, read the forum and see what has been asked and answered before posting.

[pitchu]

Kristen, I find your affected tone and the butter that wouldn't melt in your mouth even more greasily offensive than the froth from the mouths of the fundy trolls who roll in here on wheels of fire.

[PiracyOfTheHead]

It's people like Plastic Mouse and Kristen that make me want to stop thinking about this whole Xtian thing once and for all....I think I have had enough TBH, and I am grateful that PM18 trolled on by...I have had it, I know its BS and focusing energy on it will just drain what little I have left.

 

So thank you both, PM and Kristen, you have helped me come to my decision, Xtianity is worthless to even worry about, in fact it is sickening to me more than ever.

 

I was going to start getting into debates with Xtians or something so I could receive a Catharsis but I really dont want to, I mean unless challenged, then I will stand up for myself but Im not looking for it, screw it.

 

So go take your bible, console yourself with J3:16 and read about how much you are loved by the god of bloodshed and wrath, I am moving on to better things.

[Asimov]

Both sides could learn a lot if we all try to really listen and speak from our hearts.

 

-kristen

 

I don't know about anyone else hear, but I speak from my mouth.

[Deva]

Hate/detest... very strong words. They imply fear and they leave little room for flexibility (almost dogmatic). Those words make me sad.

 

You bet they are strong. We don't have to tip toe around delicate sensibilities on this site and in this forum. Makes you sad - start reading some entries in the "testimonies" section, find out why, and deal with it.

 

Yes there are some people out there who call themselves as Christians and who use the bible as a shield. No, as a weapon... so they can blanketly condemn (much easier) and don't have to try to understand any other viewpoints. But there are others who love. Just as there are agnostics who may be very caring individuals and others who hide behind science textbooks.

 

Newsflash - some of us spent 30 plus years trying to understand the other viewpoint. As far as the "hiding behind science books" have you cracked one lately?

 

I read the first post again. And I don't believe he is on here to judge anyone's faith, or to "troll." Perhaps a little more thought and care could have gone into what was written, a little more consideration of how it might have been interpreted, but not everyone's a writer.

 

No, he was a hit and run troll. Not interested in discussion, just wanting to stir up something. We have seen many.

 

.... I think it's time for me to find a faith that lifts me up, one that lifts up those around me and at the very least doesn't hurt anyone else. I think it's out there.

 

Fine and dandy. Good luck with that. If it turns out to be Christianity, you might want to take it elsewhere.

 

I'd like to give some advice. You don't have to take it (free will and all). But if you're on here as a Christian soldier, if you really care about sharing your faith with those that lack it... please keep in mind that a lot of the folks on here are hurting or have been hurt by people who call themselves Christian. Approach delicately and with love and respect. Trying to "win" an argument only affirms that there is a fight, and drives them further from the God you are trying to serve. And if you're on here as someone who lacks faith, try to understand that just like not all athiests are evil... not all Christians lack reason and compassion. If you've asked God for answers and gotten none so far, be open to the possibility that He still may be trying to give them to you.

 

Just a mite condescending in the tone here, Kristin. We reserve the right to say "God isn't there" when there is nothing but silence. How long do you suggest we remain "open"? 40 years enough for you?

 

You are mistaken if you think we are all atheists here, that we all think all Christians lack reason and compassion. Some Christians do have reasoning abilities far beyond mine, its just that in this one area of religion they have suddenly none. Again, you needn't worry about our delicate sensibilities. Just speak your mind and we will be certain to speak ours.

[Thurisaz]

You are mistaken if you think we are all atheists here...

 

Word sister!

 

Yup Kristen (if you're still reading this... ), just in case you didn't notice so far, this site is not populated exclusively by atheists. What we have in common is not being atheists but not being christians any longer. Here's just one example of a person who does believe in Divine forces... only that those are not of the christian kind. Dig this.

[mwc]

I don't know about anyone else hear, but I speak from my mouth.

Well right there's your problem.

 

mwc

[Asimov]

I don't know about anyone else hear, but I speak from my mouth.

Well right there's your problem.

 

mwc

 

I thin it's better than talking out my ass.

[mwc]

I thin it's better than talking out my ass.

Maybe. But not nearly as much fun at parties.

 

mwc

[Auracle]

I thin it's better than talking out my ass.

Maybe. But not nearly as much fun at parties.

 

mwc

 

Does...anyone have a breath mint?

 

Sorry

[Guest Princess Bitch]

ok, lookie, i'm at work. i came here to show people that you guys are not the INFINITE in what's true, which i already did. sorry, you're just people (hate to break it to ya)! feel free to email me. otherwise, i'm out.

 

So soon? What a douchebag.

[Robbobrob]

I have found more faith in Winnie The Pooh and the Flying Spaghetti Monster than I ever found in Jesus and his gang of Bible thugs.

 

Satan (ie biology and evolution) wisely gave us our power to judge, and BibleGod (ie society and power hungry rulers) has been trying to take it away ever since we escaped his prison called Eden. Enough already.

 

Non Serviam. I will not serve.

[Ixchel]

Your god is not the god of love, mouse. He is the god of intolerance and death and fear. That is why I hate Christianity. I'm not afraid of it, though. Not anymore.

[MikeyMac]

For those of you who no longer believe. What are you SO scared of? You don't "allow" Christians in here. You think we are so awful we will "corrupt" those who no longer believe? You think we will brainwash those who are on the edge of losing their faith? Really?? Is that what you're freaking out over? You chose to stop believing in God, right? You hate that Christians try to show unbelievers that Christ died for them, that they have the opportunity to be born again. What exactly is it that YOU are doing? Are not not shoving your lack of beliefs on others? Are you not bashing Christians? Are you not trying to shove us out of the way so you can persuade people not to believe?

 

What IF you're wrong? What if God is real. What if he's not only real, but what if the general Christian perception of Him is real and what if you will be held accountable to Him one day? Has it occurred to you that you might someday be held accountable to those who you are trying to convince God does not believe. It's so sad to me that those of you who are on the edge of losing your faith, are being persuaded by people who lost their faith. Why should others lose their faith just because you no longer have it??

 

Those of you who are ex Christians don't know everything. There are millions who will be able to successfully debate with you scientifically and otherwise back and forth, but in the end, you are JUST a person. You are human. On top of that you are ONLY one human. Who are you to try to tell someone else that you are right and Christians are wrong?

 

What's my view? I believe it's up to the person to decide their faith and what they believe in. If people believe in God because of me, then they can easily be swayed down the road.

 

And if you are all so convinsed God isn't real, then leave this open to debate. As other Chrsitian forums do, leave the door open for discussion. If you don't beleive in God, then don't pretend to be Him.

 

For those of you who would rather not reply on here, feel free to email me.

 

Which one is the one on one debate forum? and what is peanutting?

[MikeyMac]

Your god is not the god of love, mouse. He is the god of intolerance and death and fear. That is why I hate Christianity. I'm not afraid of it, though. Not anymore.

 

What is Darwins scale??

[Munk]

What IF you're wrong? What if God is real. What if he's not only real, but what if the general Christian perception of Him is real and what if you will be held accountable to Him one day? Has it occurred to you that you might someday be held accountable to those who you are trying to convince God does not believe. It's so sad to me that those of you who are on the edge of losing your faith, are being persuaded by people who lost their faith. Why should others lose their faith just because you no longer have it??

 

I haven't read the thread yet, just the OP. But I have to say this: What if you're wrong? What if the Nordic, Greco-Roman, Hindu, etc pantheons are real? That's a lot of pissed off deities. And no, you cannot use the excuse that they're "dead" religions because Hindu is the main religion of India and far older than Christianity, and Judaism as well I believe.

 

Y'see, I'm a deistic neo-pagan. I personally don't care what comes after this, and while I believe in deities I live as if there were none because to me it doesn't matter. There are more important things than whose god-flavor tastes better. Now to humor you, say there IS a good reason to hold a god-belief for a safe afterlife? I'd have to say my bets are better hedged than yours. You have one choice, while I acknowledge the possible existence of millions of other, older deities, some of which who are a lot nastier than Yahweh. I'm a math failure, but even I can see that probability is in my favor.

 

And you came to an ex-christian website, so of course there's ex-christian "propaganda". You have millions of sites, and we all have this one. Bugger off of our corner of the internet. No one asked you to come here. No one is making you stay. Do you see me coming to your website spewing my beliefs as if they were some universal truth and getting all butthurt just because *gasp* not everyone agrees with me and possibly having people reply in a hostile manner because I invaded their space? Yeah, I disagree with your beliefs. I once held them, so I'm aware of the framework. But I'm not begrudging you a damn thing. You can go sing your hymns and wear your crucifixes all you want and I won't stop you, even though I think some of it is a waste of time and life.

 

See, I acknowledge that I could be wrong and don't claim to hold any absolute truth. I have personal reasons for thinking what I do, and I can't transfer those to anyone else. Atheism makes perfect sense to me, more so than the god-belief position, especially since we're all born with no concept of a god or gods. If you believe in something it's yours alone. You cannot share your experiences fully with anyone. Because it's personal, you don't have the right to try and force someone to believe your views. I don't care if people think I'm wrong, because they aren't me, and I can't expect people to take me on faith with everything I claim I believe. I don't believe in one true path or whatever, because like in life, many streets lead to one single destination. I think it's pointless to shove our crap in other people's faces. Sharing is one thing, preaching is another. And yeah I'm preaching at you right now, but it's because even those of us who usually prefer to just ride the waves instead of make them get sick of this kinda crap.

 

Leave us alone with our heathenry and/or infidelity. We're happy here, so don't taint it. You don't have the right.