PiracyOfTheHead Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 But the reason the disciples left was because jesus wanted them to eat his bread "flesh" and drink his wine "blood." They were true disciples up to the point they were asked to disobey the Law then they proved themselves to be good Jews and obedient to YHWH. He's the one that asked them to do something illegal. He's the bad one. He betrayed their trust. He betrayed them. It doesn't matter anyway. She pointed out that only the "elect" would be brought to jesus anyhow. So how can all the "fake" ex-c's still have time to be saved? Unless we're "elected" into the system we're out of luck. We apparently were confused about our previous go around so how can I know that this time I'm really "elected" and not just fooling myself again? I'd hate to be a two time non-ex-c for her to call "bull" on. That would be shameful and confusing. mwc Good points mwc, have you ever seen any of the GIIVideos God is Imaginary?? One goes through Jesus' own definition of what it takes to be saved, Dhamp brought it up and I had seen something like it before....I like their style on the videos, the presentation is a little TOO biased to seem trustworthy, hard to explain that one...I guess it seems they pounce to eagerly on ANYHING rather than being content with the major stuff, but anyways...it showed how Jesus answered the question on what to do to be saved to be schizophrenic. In another excerpt from a book I read how Jesus never once said how to believe on him the way Paul did....Jesus and Paul's methods of Salvation are entirely diffeent and once again they are both different, WTF?? Why cant the book just say clearly??? Because you are supposed to be in a pepetual state of doubt and there are safeguards to keep everybody putting in their energy and money into the church no matter how they view the method of salvation, its pretty ingenious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PocketAces Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsQwrbUXQmk...feature=related First off, this IS a question I have to ponder if I am going to be honest with my deconversion, did I ever believe?? Yes....I first believed without question as "signs" and "confirmations" began to spring up, prodding me along the path. Thinking back I realize the first couple years were the only happy years in the faith, after that it was a sinking ship, leaking more and more from numerous and increasingly larger holes. My only regret is that I deceived myself and allowed myself to be deceived , selling my soul to pretend it was saved. I may learn why I did this as my deconversion continues. If I can stay out of the psych ward long enough. When did I hit the initial phase of having to patch holes in my sinking faith?? Almost from the start, maybe 2 1/2 years into my faith, I remember reading some prety good rebuttals to some apologetics on the net, I then began to feverishly search for "patches". I remember even going to www.bible.ca I AM SURE some or most of you know this place. I found the more I doubted and questioned, the more fanatic I had to become to keep up the charade. So this is an honest question, was I deceived by some evil beings and beliefs, am I a Judas? The bible does talk about truly believing and falling away, it says that this can happen and that you can't come back once you reached a certain point. That you will never be able to find your faith again because God will cause you to believe a lie, and will prevent you himelf, for having blasphemed in this way. I either, truly believed and have truly found the religion is bullshit, or I truly believed and sin and doubt have damned my soul forever, according to the bible, these are the options. But according to this apologist, this tutorial she presented was "gonna be fun", the fun was lost on me, what about you? Please comment on the video and post your beliefs about "Falling away", never believing in the first place or whatever situation you find yourself in, based on this woman's claim that all Ex-Christians' testimonies are "BULL" Thanx Hebrews 6:1-8 is proof enough from the Bible that theree are those of us who were sincere in the faith and sincerely walked away from the faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 Well I got in touch with that lady and invited her here for a friendly chat......I want to discuss the slap in the face of saying we never believed as well as how "god" took away her problems, wehn so many of us were left to drown in our miseries..... Let's see if she Yokesup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixolite Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 She doesn't even realize how much she shot herself in the foot with quoting that passage. She quotes John 6:60 ff John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. Thanks for showing your god is a sadisitc asshole, Yokeup. You just quoted a verse which proves that your god sends people to heaven and hell like he pleases, as he does not give free will to his creation. If your god chooses to make someone a (saved) Christian, the person becomes so, if not, the person ends up burning in hell forever. Loving god my ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixolite Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 WTF? I can't edit my post. ???? Sadisitc should be sadistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 WTF? I can't edit my post. ???? Not until 30 posts. Other than that... :welcome: mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixolite Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Not until 30 posts. That sucks. So, I guess, I need to do a little post whoring. Other than that... :welcome: Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsQwrbUXQmk...feature=related First off, this IS a question I have to ponder if I am going to be honest with my deconversion, did I ever believe?? Yes....I first believed without question as "signs" and "confirmations" began to spring up, prodding me along the path. Thinking back I realize the first couple years were the only happy years in the faith, after that it was a sinking ship, leaking more and more from numerous and increasingly larger holes. My only regret is that I deceived myself and allowed myself to be deceived , selling my soul to pretend it was saved. I may learn why I did this as my deconversion continues. If I can stay out of the psych ward long enough. When did I hit the initial phase of having to patch holes in my sinking faith?? Almost from the start, maybe 2 1/2 years into my faith, I remember reading some prety good rebuttals to some apologetics on the net, I then began to feverishly search for "patches". I remember even going to www.bible.ca I AM SURE some or most of you know this place. I found the more I doubted and questioned, the more fanatic I had to become to keep up the charade. So this is an honest question, was I deceived by some evil beings and beliefs, am I a Judas? The bible does talk about truly believing and falling away, it says that this can happen and that you can't come back once you reached a certain point. That you will never be able to find your faith again because God will cause you to believe a lie, and will prevent you himelf, for having blasphemed in this way. I either, truly believed and have truly found the religion is bullshit, or I truly believed and sin and doubt have damned my soul forever, according to the bible, these are the options. But according to this apologist, this tutorial she presented was "gonna be fun", the fun was lost on me, what about you? Please comment on the video and post your beliefs about "Falling away", never believing in the first place or whatever situation you find yourself in, based on this woman's claim that all Ex-Christians' testimonies are "BULL" Thanx ....Unfortunately I think this attitude held by "born again" christians is nothing more than a cop-out!! "Born agains" for a start off have always struggled with logic and reasoning! We as Ex-Christians are probably the biggest thorn in their sides as we know all their rehashed and tied old arguments. They of course know this!! This leads to a difficult senario for ANY "born again". After all, when looking from their brainwashed perspective, how could ANYONE feel or be in the situation they see us in? It does not in any way, shape, or form compute with their narrow belief system. To me the easy way out for them is just to argue we were never christians to begin with! Very simplistic and not taxing on their feeble brainwashed minds!! End of story!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted December 21, 2008 Author Share Posted December 21, 2008 Peter talks about this born again experience and then those that fall away after that as being ixnay from the ingdomkay.... They just have a damned answer for EVERYTHING and ANYTHING, the bible was constructed to allow you to believe anything you want and prove it, its like the perfect tool, some sort of magical weaving together of the whole religion while allowing for every possible scenario. Thats why the 30,000 + denominations can all rest assured in their dogmas and creeds. I float back and forth to not wanting to even think about Xtianity any longer to needing to deal with it.....part of the deconversion I am sure. I think I am 8 weeks in now. I need to check out that "Phases of Deconversion" Thread. Has anyone commentd to their VIDs on youtube??? Any replies?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 It's generally useless to comment on Christians' videos on YouTube. You might as well be banging your head against a wall of stone. But, knock yourself out if you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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