An Apology For Apologists

[Thurisaz]

Whatever happened to Joanna? Did she leave the site?

I hope not. I liked her.

 

Yep for all I've seen she's okay

[Alice]

This is my last post.

 

When an ex-christian (one who no longer adheres to christianity and it's bible) hides behind scripture in order to oppose/convict/accuse someone of doing something wrong (attack), all reasoning has gone out the window.

 

Hiding behind the bible in order to attack someone and remain blameless is not a mark of great courage or decency, AND it is exactly what christians do to each other (use the bible to attack each other, and, as if that's not bloodthirsty enough, they also use it to remain blameless).

 

Right from the start, I made it no secret that I am not a 'textual' person (scripture does not define me). The Pharisees were defined by text in heart, soul, mind, and body. Their devotion and persona were according to a script (SCRIPTural). If you ever develop enough courage to free yourself (a human being) from 'THE BOOK', you will have redeemed your humanity.

 

Even war is war, but using the bible to wipe the blood off your hands is inhuman (if you offend humanity, you offend God).

Well, that was interesting. I didn't realize I was attacking him. Sounds to me like someone has some pretty deep spiritual issues. Doesn't recognize the beam in his own eye. Refuses kindness and calls it an attack. Oh well, he has his hell and I pity him in it.

 

Back to Joanna. Joanna, you there?

 

I noticed that Joanna's most recent post mentioned that she was off on a break ~ but it seemed to indicate that she was intending to come back. I've pm'd her to say I hope she does.

 

I was another one who was reminded of TAP, but Dhampir was reaching for another name (I think the two were also likened to one another from time to time)

 

Anyway, I guess someone who calls themself 'Been there done that' would be highly likely to write a 'this will be my last post' fairly early on in their posting career.

 

I think this is a situation where whatever was said and whatever efforts were made for him to feel OK, he was going to decide he was misunderstood and had insights that no one else is able to grasp and that it was therefore his right to dismiss and accuse. Sad.

[Evolution_beyond]

So go ahead and make it a lifelong habit to persecute, crucify, hate, and resent people,

 

When I was studying history at university, I was taught to be careful when writing essays to be aware of the different meanings of 'persecution', 'oppression' and 'discrimination'.

 

We might discriminate against christians here - but we don't oppress them (we are not trying to pass laws against them), neither do we persecute them (we don't believe they should be rounded up and placed in death camps or burnt at the stake).

[Evolution_beyond]

Apostle Paul has already established that it's okay to lie (violating the ten commands) when it suits the purpose of xianity.

 

I don't think the commandment in the ten commandments refer to lying generally. It refers specifically to 'bearing false witness' - which is when you accuse someone of doing something wrong when they are innocent. This is a particularly hurtful thing to experience and I quite admire the Israelites for making it one of their Ten Commandments. I think it cheapens it to generalise it as 'do not lie'.

 

Sorry, I'm being picky about small little things today.

[Evolution_beyond]

I am arrogant

 

Nice to see you admit it.

 

Are ex-christians so weak that they need "soft words"? Shall I condescend and patronize? Shall I regard ex-christians as little delicate children?

 

Turning the other cheek is a principle against vengeance.

 

You do not show your religion to be anything special - or that it makes people into better people.

 

And you fail to understand the spirit of your own scriptures.

[Evolution_beyond]

The message of turn the other cheek is to diffuse the situation. Pray for those who despise you, do good to those who mistreat you, etc are all words of Jesus. Want to know why? Because it doesn't do you or anyone any good to escalate situations. Acting with grace is the better road than acting with anger. It's not playing the martyr, it's understanding the power of peace over anger within yourself.

 

Forgive me, but you seem to fail to understand this very basic principle of the Christian message. "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"? It's pretty foundational, and one that those who follow a religion don't understand because, why? They have no internal change. It's all cloaks put on the exterior. That you get mad, is at least honest, so I'll give you that. But taking the higher ground is always preferable to war. Don't you think?

 

I'll address your other points separately.

 

 

 

P.S. I find it amazing that ExChristians understand the Christian teachings better than Christians themselves. Maybe they should quit going to church and come here instead? (I think it's because they get too hung up on the idea of "truth", instead of how to live).

 

Well said

[Evolution_beyond]

This is my last post.

 

coward

 

When an ex-christian (one who no longer adheres to christianity and it's bible) hides behind scripture in order to oppose/convict/accuse someone of doing something wrong (attack), all reasoning has gone out the window.

 

Hiding behind the bible in order to attack someone and remain blameless is not a mark of great courage or decency, AND it is exactly what christians do to each other (use the bible to attack each other, and, as if that's not bloodthirsty enough, they also use it to remain blameless).

 

Holding you to your own standards, asshole. Is it wrong to expose hypocrisy?

 

Right from the start, I made it no secret that I am not a 'textual' person (scripture does not define me).

 

So you make it up as you go along? If you don't get your faith from the Bible, then where do you get it from? If you get it from somewhere else (even personal experience) then why even call it christianity? Why not call it Gnosticism or Mysticism or something?

 

And if you are not a 'textual' person - then how come you are always quoting the bible, dipshit?

 

I don't expect you to answer because you're such a coward that you've run away with your tail between your legs rather than debate with people.

 

And I've only just started paying attention to this thread

[mwc]

Right from the start, I made it no secret that I am not a 'textual' person (scripture does not define me). The Pharisees were defined by text in heart, soul, mind, and body. Their devotion and persona were according to a script (SCRIPTural). If you ever develop enough courage to free yourself (a human being) from 'THE BOOK', you will have redeemed your humanity.

You are a fuck tard. In the last "real" post you made I counted three references to bible verses and this quote:

"His wish is that we find His wise counsel in scripture (the "word of truth")"

 

In almost every since post you've made it's full of "crap crap crap (bible crap reference xx:yy)." If that's not a complete contradiction to what you've stated above then I don't know what is.

 

But what do you say just prior to all this?

Hiding behind the bible in order to attack someone and remain blameless is not a mark of great courage or decency, AND it is exactly what christians do to each other (use the bible to attack each other, and, as if that's not bloodthirsty enough, they also use it to remain blameless).

So you can barf up bible verses ad nauseum but, we being ex-c's have no right to speak from your little tome? Sorry. No. We've read it. We know. And if you're going to use it then so can we. Puke on my shoes you just might get some of my special blend right back on yours. But if we do that then that doesn't allow you your place up there on your soapbox. Right where you can wave your dick right in our faces while shouting out your bible verses. Nope. That doesn't work for us I'm afraid. It also doesn't work to write it real small on the tip to try to trick us into getting closer so you can ram it down our throats when our attention is diverted. We know all the tricks.

 

When an ex-christian (one who no longer adheres to christianity and it's bible) hides behind scripture in order to oppose/convict/accuse someone of doing something wrong (attack), all reasoning has gone out the window.

So at least you seem to be aware of what an ex-c is (thanks for telling us) but it's you who is the one who is confused. Using a rule book to referee sports, or enforce laws, is a valid thing to do isn't it? The bible is the "rule book" for xians. It defines them. It tells them the who/what/when/where/how for their lives. Some people consider it an "instruction manual" but the idea is the same. If we look at the "rules" and see them being violated then there should be no problem whatsoever if those violations get pointed out. Just because we're ex-c's doesn't mean we have amnesia. We're still familar with the rules. Obviously, you don't like being called on your violations, or, you have no explanation for them. That being the case you wish to deny us access to the rules altogether. Isn't that what the Bush administration does anymore? Use the "rules" to accuse others, but hide those same "rules" from others so that they can't return the favor? Are you George Bush?

 

This is my last post.

Find a door to hit you in the ass.

 

mwc

[chefranden]

Olde Been has now BeenHereDoneThis. He leaves sadder, but none the wiser.

[been there done that]

Well, this fuck tard, dipshit, asshole who should find a door to hit him in the ass and waves his dick (and is not bombarded with anger and hostility) is also one of those idiots who finishes last in this world.

 

I realize how hasty I was. I also realize that you, Antlerman, never addressed me with anger, hostility, or insults (thank you).

 

I didn't really mind being judged by someone who hasn't addressed me with anger or hostility, and I don't desire that anybody else be judged by the same law that was being used for me (certainly not), my "anger" (upset, not "angry" AT anyone) was that I am (and will always be) being singled out (INJUSTICE).

 

If you want to convict or accuse me of something, at least do it yourself instead of using something else to do it.

 

I completely diregard humanity's/christianity's imagined 'text god' (I am not a "textual person"). I VIOLATE TEXT, not the SPIRIT (yes, there is a difference), but I am still a human being (I offer no apology for that because I am arrogant, not because I feel 'ALLOWED' to not apologize, I am who I am).

 

 

"Live by the sword [of your own choosing], die by the [same] sword".

 

If you want to live by the "text sword", then the "text sword" will judge you every day for the rest of your life. You're better off using the other sword....the sword of the spirit, it is two edged/two way, judging others the way you judge yourself and vice versa...mercy, compassion, not judging/deciding at all, etc., but you'll have to ease up on the world (including myself).

 

 

I will not forgive anyone for anything (that would be impossible). In order for a person to be "forgiven", they have to first be held IN CONTEMPT,...this is not in plain black and white for anyone to 'visually' see (not in the carnal/textual message in scripture), but is for eyes to see and ears to HEAR [HIS VOICE].

 

(meaning that I NEVER hold anyone in contempt, love takes no record of wrongs, love covers a multitude of "sin"...whatever that is, I see "sin" no more,..in the spirit, I am no longer mindful of people's sin against me, Jeremiah 31:32).

[Evolution_beyond]

Apart from my use of the words 'asshole' and 'dipshit' I think I was pretty polite actually.

 

I was in a bit of a cranky mood yesterday - so I was lacking patience.

 

Besides, I think you were only getting back what you were giving out.

[mwc]

Well, this fuck tard, dipshit, asshole who should find a door to hit him in the ass and waves his dick (and is not bombarded with anger and hostility) is also one of those idiots who finishes last in this world.

Ahhh...you came back. And you recognized all your pet names I have for you. How cute.

 

I realize how hasty I was. I also realize that you, Antlerman, never addressed me with anger, hostility, or insults (thank you).

He doesn't mind wiping up the stains our little wayward pets leave around here.

 

I completely diregard humanity's/christianity's imagined 'text god' (I am not a "textual person"). I VIOLATE TEXT, not the SPIRIT (yes, there is a difference), but I am still a human being (I offer no apology for that because I am arrogant, not because I feel 'ALLOWED' to not apologize, I am who I am).

I don't give a shit if you apologize or not. Notice that we're still in the wrong thread. The one you hijacked. It's about courtesy. You failed to give it and so you aren't getting any. It's very simple. But for some reason you can't process it. Go back to the start of this thread and see if you can't figure out where it went so terribly wrong.

 

As for the text worship. Great point. So you can interpret the bible as you see fit. By extension, so can anyone and everyone else. Including us. Deal with it.

 

If you want to live by the "text sword", then the "text sword" will judge you every day for the rest of your life. You're better off using the other sword....the sword of the spirit, it is two edged/two way, judging others the way you judge yourself and vice versa...mercy, compassion, not judging/deciding at all, etc., but you'll have to ease up on the world (including myself).

If I/we don't buy into your interpretation then tough shit for you. I don't care if you think that you've cornered the market on the "spirit" of the text. Maybe, just maybe, we think that. Maybe another xian here thinks they do. Maybe my cat will whisper the "spirit" of the text into my ear while I'm typing and he and only he knows the answers (he's a good kitty)? You're the one that needs to understand that your line of reasoning can and will be challenged by people (one or more) that might just see things differently than you and aren't just going to accept what you say because you say it. Lesson one. We don't believe in your god. Saying we don't believe in your god because we missed some nuance of the text is stupid. Go away.

 

I will not forgive anyone for anything (that would be impossible). In order for a person to be "forgiven", they have to first be held IN CONTEMPT,...this is not in plain black and white for anyone to 'visually' see (not in the carnal/textual message in scripture), but is for eyes to see and ears to HEAR [HIS VOICE].

 

(meaning that I NEVER hold anyone in contempt, love takes no record of wrongs, love covers a multitude of "sin"...whatever that is, I see "sin" no more,..in the spirit, I am no longer mindful of people's sin against me, Jeremiah 31:32).

This proves my point. Whose voice? "His?" Who is this "his?" Oh. The fucker I don't believe in that you keep not proving exists in the first place. Fuck him and the whatever the fuck he rode in on. Back up, take a deep breath, and think. There's no "[him]" doing anything to me. But you think there's one doing things to you. So I can comment on that. That's where your little book comes in handy.

 

Let me give you another fake example. Say there are two countries. In one it's legal to have sex which 16 year olds (country 'A') and the other the legal age is 18 (country 'B'). If a person is 'B' has sex with a 17 year old it's perfectly alright for someone in 'A' to point out to that person that they broke their own laws. Even though they didn't not break the law of 'A' they still broke their own law and just because 'A' pointed it out doesn't mean that the person that broke the law can tell the person from 'A' he has no right to say anything since their law says they can have sex with 16 year olds. It's not about the act of sex but about the violation of law.

 

So I'm not bound by xian law anymore. I've moved. But if a xian violates their own law you bet I'll point it out. To tell me that I do the same thing so I must be guilty to is useless since, as I said, I'm not bound by your silly laws. You just imagine I am for some reason and it bothers you that I won't submit. That's not my problem. Even if you think the "spirit" of the law might be more appealing to me...it's not.

 

Keep that in mind the next time you think I "sin." I do not. That's your thing and I can use your own rules to judge you accordingly. I don't recognize this as the sole "right" of a non-existent "god." More fun for me.

 

mwc

[been there done that]

Don't flatter yourself wmc, I didn't apologize to anyone but Antlerman.

[mwc]

Don't flatter yourself wmc, I didn't apologize to anyone but Antlerman.

And I quote myself "I don't give a shit if you apologize or not."

 

Care to point out where you actually did apologize to anyone prior to my last post? Your last message is the closest you've came. Try apologizing to the OP for crapping all over her thread and then try opening your own thread for your special brand of nonsense. Show you're not stupid and/or insincere. The bar is set pretty low but I'm not entirely convinced you can do it.

 

mwc

[Antlerman]

I realize how hasty I was. I also realize that you, Antlerman, never addressed me with anger, hostility, or insults (thank you).

 

I didn't really mind being judged by someone who hasn't addressed me with anger or hostility, and I don't desire that anybody else be judged by the same law that was being used for me (certainly not), my "anger" (upset, not "angry" AT anyone) was that I am (and will always be) being singled out (INJUSTICE).

 

If you want to convict or accuse me of something, at least do it yourself instead of using something else to do it.

I appreciate that, but I don't exactly feel that I judged you, or that I was hiding behind anything in pointing out what I did by using verses from the Bible. You focus on the difference between the "carnal/text" and the spirit of scripture. A simpler way to put that is "the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law", or the intent versus a literal interpretation.

 

Though I don't accept the message of those verses I quoted for your benefit as "authoritative" or dictatorial, I do accept them in their "spirit" as having value and worth quoting to make a point as I see it, the same as quoting any pearl of wisdom - say from Shakespeare for instance. Quoting them is not to do as the Christian who holds it over your head and say, "God expects you to obey this!". Not at all. I consider verses such as "a gentle word turns away wrath", or "love your neighbor as yourself" to be words of human wisdom. I did speak from my thoughts, than quoted them as support by using a language you yourself clearly respect by your repeated quotes of scripture.

 

I can sense you feel as burnt out and poisoned by the Christians' approach to religion as we do. You just try to sort it out by reinterpreting the Bible into the pearls of wisdom parts reflecting "the spirit of the law", as opposed to how they read text as demands from God against you - in other words motivating you through guilt. I pick up that you must have been really, harshly had it used as a weapon on you and it caused a great crisis for you that led you to try to fix all of it to a way that doesn't make you feel that guilt that way. I might be wrong, but from reading "the spirit" of what you're communicating, it's just something that seems to be there behind how you try to express yourself, in your way.

 

I think what I'm getting at is that you are probably not all that different than us (which is why when you first came here you made this comment to us,

 

Hello,

 

I am new here. First, let me make this statement...

 

An EX-christian is the greatest Godlover of all.

 

I can have no greater respect for a human being as I do for someone who has had the wisdom and fortitude (including true love) to escape the partisan and mammon based "form of godliness" club called "christianity".

The difficulty is that you quote scripture like there's no tomorrow, which may work for you, but to most here it sounds exactly like another God-Toting Bible-Banger. It's very hard to hear what you mean in how you communicate things, and as a result you just get angry when people respond negatively. That's why I've always suggested that if you have something to communicate, that if you feel your point is being missed and you want to be understood - it will work to your advantage (as well as everyone else's) to not escalate things by responding negatively.

 

If you'd just rather have these sorts of responses as you have been, then by all means don't listen to what I've been saying and continue doing as you have. This is where taking responsibility on your part comes in.

[R. S. Martin]

Somehow it's difficult to stiffle the rising snickers when an adult with invisible friends makes an attempt to psychoanalyze us and dare offer up advice on living.

 

 

Anyone else reminded of Mr. K? aka Kratos?

 

Guy hasn't been around in a while but I see lots of similarities between this guy and him. Neither go to church. Both know exactly how to fix us. Need I mention arrogant and the ability to quote chapter and verse?

 

But when he starts preaching (teachin', 'splaining, whatever) at Joanna....well, I think that's our misogynous Kratos all over again. Of course, the world is full of this kind. And I haven't read all the posts of this thread yet--maybe this has already been discussed...

[chefranden]

Whine whine whine.... cheese.... whine whine... snivel sniff snivel... )*(**%*())+))*&%^... whine... snivel snivel... blah blah... I am a TrueChristian™ so God will bash you!!!!!!

 

Just translating for those that don't know your dialect.

[Neon Genesis]

Anyone else reminded of Mr. K? aka Kratos?

 

Guy hasn't been around in a while but I see lots of similarities between this guy and him. Neither go to church. Both know exactly how to fix us. Need I mention arrogant and the ability to quote chapter and verse?

 

But when he starts preaching (teachin', 'splaining, whatever) at Joanna....well, I think that's our misogynous Kratos all over again. Of course, the world is full of this kind. And I haven't read all the posts of this thread yet--maybe this has already been discussed...

Both of their posts are also completely incomprehensible and they both respect AM and ignore everyone else even though the other members haven't treated him that drastically different and any "hostility" (aka we didn't kiss been here's ass) they've received they brought on themselves. On a side note, why do "Christians" like been here come here claiming to preach a message of love, but they always swear at us like there's no tomorrow? What happened to that whole be slow to speak thing that James was talking about? Last I checked, wasn't cussing a sin in the bible?

[Antlerman]

Both of their posts are also completely incomprehensible and they both respect AM and ignore everyone else even though the other members haven't treated him that drastically different and any "hostility" (aka we didn't kiss been here's ass) they've received they brought on themselves.

I think it's my avatar:

 

 

He looks kindly, despite the revised crucifixion scene in the background. Maybe if I change my avatar to this, that will all change:

 

 

(He does have horns, so that would work for "Antlerman" )

[Alice]

I have noticed a new truth or 'law'.

 

Posters who say 'this will be my last post here' ~ can rarely deliver this declaration.

[Neon Genesis]

He looks kindly, despite the revised crucifixion scene in the background. Maybe if I change my avatar to this, that will all change:

But I wonder why they aren't offended by the Jesus in the background?

[Deva]

Anyone else reminded of Mr. K? aka Kratos?

 

Kratos seemed to be more coherent had had better sentence structure.

[The-Captain]

Both of their posts are also completely incomprehensible and they both respect AM and ignore everyone else even though the other members haven't treated him that drastically different and any "hostility" (aka we didn't kiss been here's ass) they've received they brought on themselves.

I think it's my avatar:

 

 

He looks kindly, despite the revised crucifixion scene in the background. Maybe if I change my avatar to this, that will all change:

 

Kindly? I could never quite make out the hand in the left corner so it looked like he was flipping me off.

[Antlerman]

Kindly? I could never quite make out the hand in the left corner so it looked like he was flipping me off.

That's great! I never saw it like that before, of course I had the original. That would be funny as hell. A Bible in one hand while flipping you the bird with the other.

 

Sort of like this:

 

[Vigile]

Whine whine whine.... cheese.... whine whine... snivel sniff snivel... )*(**%*())+))*&%^... whine... snivel snivel... blah blah... I am a TrueChristian™ so God will bash you!!!!!!

 

Just translating for those that don't know your dialect.

 

Ah, with your lexicon he makes so much more sense.