I Really Don't Believe Anymore

[florduh]

Lenbitme, that was a perfect response you wrote. Well done!

[Sky Dancer]

Sky Dancer, I think it is good to ask these questions and defend the story of the baby a little only so that others can open your eyes with their answers. However, don't fall into the trap of defending the faith simply because you have been conditioned to. You may have easy answers about the story in your mind which are in line with it being a miracle, but that's simply because you have been conditioned with these responses and answers. The harder answer to arrive to (that the family may be exaggerating, that there are missing parts of the story you haven't been told, that the doctors could have been wrong, that Christians are eager to turn ordinary things into "miracles", that the story could have been stretched and contorted, that we are limited in knowledge as human beings, that all religions have these "miracles" to speak of, and on and on) is the correct one, but I don't think you really want to hear that. It seems to me you're fighting for the faith rather than against, when pushing against it is what will help you break free. What these people seem to have that you don't think you have is really nothing. You are creating it all in your mind. You don't really know what goes on behind the scenes in their daily lives, in their thoughts, and you don't know the agenda of the leaders of the church. Christianity is -designed- to make you think that what you have as a non-Christian is lesser than what they have as Christians. It is -designed- to keep people in the fold with messages like the one you heard. It is -designed- to be manipulative and keep its people misinformed, and create a dream world that only exists in everyone's heads and emotions. You aren't missing out on ANYTHING. How can you be missing out on something that doesn't exist? It irks me a little when people going through the deconversion process want their faith back when they have so much knowledge at their fingertips. Even I have a thought like this from time to time, and I get a little frustrated with myself because I then realize that freedom is so much sweeter than being trapped in a Matrix world, and so why am I wanting something so destructive and deceitful? Anyway, I hope you realize just how little you have really, truly lost. And that you can't believe everyone and everything you hear, no matter how much you may -want- to.

 

I guess the problem I am having is convincing myself that I'm right in my disbelief depsite all those who eagerly believe. How could they all be wrong and I be right? I'm in the minority. This is the question that keeps going over and over in my head. I am constantly having to go over the reasons in my head of why I don't believe. I still fear hell. Also, the verses in the bible that say many believers will fall away in the last days keep jumping out at me. I ask myself: what if it's us who are all wrong?

 

On another note, I live with my parents. When I stopped truck driving and came back to finish college in August 07, I moved back in with my parents becuase it was cheaper and allowed me to go as a full time student. I will graduate in May 09. Part of the condition, and yes I mean as in requirement, of my living here is that I attend church regularly. My mom doesn't care where I go to church as long as I'm in church on Sunday. Talk about beng controlled. I didn't have a problem with it then. Now, I feel I'm in a rut. I really can't just stop going to church because that will cause a lot of problems here. I certainly can't tell them about my apostacy. It would be hell for all of us and I'm afraid I would be told to pack my bags and leave. It would definately cause my parents to have an emotional breakdown. I can't afford to move out and graduation is only 10 months away. I could afford it in January when I will be free of credit card debt (yay!), but it wouldn't be worth it cus graduation will be right around the corner. Since I go to a different church than my parents, I could easly fake not going. But I'm too honest to do that. So I feel like I'm stuck in a rut for the next 10 months. But in May comes freedom and I plan on getting the hell out of Arkansas and hopefully heading west. My son is 2, lives in Cali and I'm missing him grow up. Monterey is nice, but living expenses are outrageous. This whole thing bites man.

[Guest YoungandBroken]

Sky Dancer, I think it is good to ask these questions and defend the story of the baby a little only so that others can open your eyes with their answers. However, don't fall into the trap of defending the faith simply because you have been conditioned to. You may have easy answers about the story in your mind which are in line with it being a miracle, but that's simply because you have been conditioned with these responses and answers. The harder answer to arrive to (that the family may be exaggerating, that there are missing parts of the story you haven't been told, that the doctors could have been wrong, that Christians are eager to turn ordinary things into "miracles", that the story could have been stretched and contorted, that we are limited in knowledge as human beings, that all religions have these "miracles" to speak of, and on and on) is the correct one, but I don't think you really want to hear that. It seems to me you're fighting for the faith rather than against, when pushing against it is what will help you break free. What these people seem to have that you don't think you have is really nothing. You are creating it all in your mind. You don't really know what goes on behind the scenes in their daily lives, in their thoughts, and you don't know the agenda of the leaders of the church. Christianity is -designed- to make you think that what you have as a non-Christian is lesser than what they have as Christians. It is -designed- to keep people in the fold with messages like the one you heard. It is -designed- to be manipulative and keep its people misinformed, and create a dream world that only exists in everyone's heads and emotions. You aren't missing out on ANYTHING. How can you be missing out on something that doesn't exist? It irks me a little when people going through the deconversion process want their faith back when they have so much knowledge at their fingertips. Even I have a thought like this from time to time, and I get a little frustrated with myself because I then realize that freedom is so much sweeter than being trapped in a Matrix world, and so why am I wanting something so destructive and deceitful? Anyway, I hope you realize just how little you have really, truly lost. And that you can't believe everyone and everything you hear, no matter how much you may -want- to.

 

I guess the problem I am having is convincing myself that I'm right in my disbelief depsite all those who eagerly believe. How could they all be wrong and I be right? I'm in the minority. This is the question that keeps going over and over in my head. I am constantly having to go over the reasons in my head of why I don't believe. I still fear hell. Also, the verses in the bible that say many believers will fall away in the last days keep jumping out at me. I ask myself: what if it's us who are all wrong?

 

On another note, I live with my parents. When I stopped truck driving and came back to finish college in August 07, I moved back in with my parents becuase it was cheaper and allowed me to go as a full time student. I will graduate in May 09. Part of the condition, and yes I mean as in requirement, of my living here is that I attend church regularly. My mom doesn't care where I go to church as long as I'm in church on Sunday. Talk about beng controlled. I didn't have a problem with it then. Now, I feel I'm in a rut. I really can't just stop going to church because that will cause a lot of problems here. I certainly can't tell them about my apostacy. It would be hell for all of us and I'm afraid I would be told to pack my bags and leave. It would definately cause my parents to have an emotional breakdown. I can't afford to move out and graduation is only 10 months away. I could afford it in January when I will be free of credit card debt (yay!), but it wouldn't be worth it cus graduation will be right around the corner. Since I go to a different church than my parents, I could easly fake not going. But I'm too honest to do that. So I feel like I'm stuck in a rut for the next 10 months. But in May comes freedom and I plan on getting the hell out of Arkansas and hopefully heading west. My son is 2, lives in Cali and I'm missing him grow up. Monterey is nice, but living expenses are outrageous. This whole thing bites man.

 

I think i can help a bit. Deconverting is very hard especially for me, it still is confusing. Sometimes you need to re evaluate why you left, is it because a certain fear, a certain something you didn't like. Sometimes getting too attached to one reason for leaving can have a negative effect on you. Like say you left for a fear of hell, but the fear of hell still bothers you, you may try to keep on debunking religon in your mind back and forth just to get over the fear of hell. So instead of arguing if god exist or not your really arguing in your mind should i be afraid of hell or not. You should look for other reasons why should leave the religon and their can be many more. For example i left because i was afraid that if you have sex out of marriage something bad will happen or mostly because of it's restrictions on relationships in general. So all this time ive been trying to justify it in my mind and I was going in circles until i realized having a love life free of religon is great but what are the other reasons to leave, would i have still left if those rules did not exist. Instead of arguing if this is right or if that is wrong or if i should feae this, i can now better focus on other reasons to leave the religon mentally. Sometimes those fears you hold on to can keep you tied to the religon when in reality without them you might be more free. As for mircales and blessing as people claim why doesn't god heal people with deformities, people who share the same body (people joined together from birth). Why does god focus so much on healing people physically when they would need to be healed mentally, Obviosuly alot of people don't know what the bible is saying, why can't god correct them in a dream atleast give them a sign. I'd figure that would be way more important that healing a wordly body that won't last forever. As for the revelations talk, Revelations talks about alot of things but these are things that are always happening, people have always questioned religon, there were always wars and rumors of wars and storms, and earthquakes. That's like a preacher telling people they will be struck by lightning for punishment, lots of people get struck by lightning because it's happening now and it's probably going to happen in the future. So until you see millions of people dissapear one day which i think is highly unlikely then don't worry.

 

If you feel like you want to stop going to church then it's your choice, if you feel the decision would affect your family too much then it's your decision. But you are a young adult, older than me even, you should have a right to do what you want to do with your life. So remember try not to focus so much on the fear of hell, try to find other reasons why you left Xtianity. Good luck with the deconverting process. If you need anymore help you can message me, i have tons of ways i set my mind free from religon and i can give you a few that might help if you'd like.

[decafaholic]

Hey Skydancer,

I think I can help with the church problem. We're in the same town on Sundays. I need to keep up appearances with my religious grandparents and you need to keep up appearences with your parents so why don't we go to church together somewhere? We can purposefully pick the church with the shortest services and get it over with fast! I know it would help me out.

[Guest lenbitme]

Sky Dancer, I think it is good to ask these questions and defend the story of the baby a little only so that others can open your eyes with their answers. However, don't fall into the trap of defending the faith simply because you have been conditioned to. You may have easy answers about the story in your mind which are in line with it being a miracle, but that's simply because you have been conditioned with these responses and answers. The harder answer to arrive to (that the family may be exaggerating, that there are missing parts of the story you haven't been told, that the doctors could have been wrong, that Christians are eager to turn ordinary things into "miracles", that the story could have been stretched and contorted, that we are limited in knowledge as human beings, that all religions have these "miracles" to speak of, and on and on) is the correct one, but I don't think you really want to hear that. It seems to me you're fighting for the faith rather than against, when pushing against it is what will help you break free. What these people seem to have that you don't think you have is really nothing. You are creating it all in your mind. You don't really know what goes on behind the scenes in their daily lives, in their thoughts, and you don't know the agenda of the leaders of the church. Christianity is -designed- to make you think that what you have as a non-Christian is lesser than what they have as Christians. It is -designed- to keep people in the fold with messages like the one you heard. It is -designed- to be manipulative and keep its people misinformed, and create a dream world that only exists in everyone's heads and emotions. You aren't missing out on ANYTHING. How can you be missing out on something that doesn't exist? It irks me a little when people going through the deconversion process want their faith back when they have so much knowledge at their fingertips. Even I have a thought like this from time to time, and I get a little frustrated with myself because I then realize that freedom is so much sweeter than being trapped in a Matrix world, and so why am I wanting something so destructive and deceitful? Anyway, I hope you realize just how little you have really, truly lost. And that you can't believe everyone and everything you hear, no matter how much you may -want- to.

 

I guess the problem I am having is convincing myself that I'm right in my disbelief depsite all those who eagerly believe. How could they all be wrong and I be right? I'm in the minority.

 

I had that issue for a long time until I realized... being in the minority actually gives us POWER rather than taking it away! Any revolution started with a minor amount of people gaining their own minds and ideas and slowly building a resistance. History repeats itself! Not only this, but were it Buddhism that had gained so much power in the world, you would be asking the same question of that religion and hardly paying mind to Christianity. Once you research it you realize that Christianity simply got lucky. I look at it this way: any religion could have ended up where Christianity is today, however one of them HAD to end up at the top! This doesn't make Christianity special, but rather -lucky-. Did you know that there are TONS of atheists today in America, in other countries, who are simply not broadcasting that they are atheists? We are not -alone-, we are simply quiet. And perhaps that is part of the problem. I guarantee you, we are not in the tiniest minority either. Atheism is growing as the education and evolution of our brains grows.

 

 

 

This is the question that keeps going over and over in my head. I am constantly having to go over the reasons in my head of why I don't believe. I still fear hell.

 

Tell me if you can fear hell after reading this, it literally cured me: http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/ifhellisreal.htm

 

And don't brush this off, it will help you realize the errancy of the Bible itself as well.

 

 

Also, the verses in the bible that say many believers will fall away in the last days keep jumping out at me. I ask myself: what if it's us who are all wrong?

 

I would question the motives of a god who put dinosaur bones in the ground, made the earth appear as if it were millions of years old, gave us a Bible that is hard to follow due to its inconsistencies, set conditions for our salvation that are just as inconsistent, sent his son who cannot be proven to even exist, led us on with the appearance of evolution and then expected us to believe or burn in hell. For a mind that was conditioned to accept Christianity without question (which most of us here have struggled with) it is hard to see things solidly from the other side. But the farther away you get, the easier it becomes to realize that Christianity is just another cult. If you take a look at the massive amounts of -evidence- in the world that points away from Christianity to a scientific genesis, and then the minuscule amount of evidence for this religion (and there is next to none) you will realize that this religion has become corrupt, run by greed, the need for power and authority, and a dash of insanity.

 

On another note, I live with my parents. When I stopped truck driving and came back to finish college in August 07, I moved back in with my parents becuase it was cheaper and allowed me to go as a full time student. I will graduate in May 09. Part of the condition, and yes I mean as in requirement, of my living here is that I attend church regularly. My mom doesn't care where I go to church as long as I'm in church on Sunday. Talk about beng controlled. I didn't have a problem with it then. Now, I feel I'm in a rut. I really can't just stop going to church because that will cause a lot of problems here. I certainly can't tell them about my apostacy. It would be hell for all of us and I'm afraid I would be told to pack my bags and leave. It would definately cause my parents to have an emotional breakdown. I can't afford to move out and graduation is only 10 months away. I could afford it in January when I will be free of credit card debt (yay!), but it wouldn't be worth it cus graduation will be right around the corner. Since I go to a different church than my parents, I could easly fake not going. But I'm too honest to do that. So I feel like I'm stuck in a rut for the next 10 months. But in May comes freedom and I plan on getting the hell out of Arkansas and hopefully heading west. My son is 2, lives in Cali and I'm missing him grow up. Monterey is nice, but living expenses are outrageous. This whole thing bites man.

 

Sweetie, honesty is over rated. Go to breakfast instead. What harm will it do? Why hold on to that honesty? Is it hurting you or helping you? Is it really benefiting your mother in any way? You won't hurt her by going to breakfast instead if she doesn't know. I'm sure I sound horrible the way I'm phrasing this, but I know exactly, and I mean -exactly- where you're coming from. Only a month ago did I manage to move out with my boyfriend away from the Christian drenched home of my fundamentalist parents, with no outlets besides college and my boyfriend and a couple of friends who stood by me. Everyday I was attacked with doubts and confusion and psychological pain simply because I was stuck with my parents who disapproved of my atheism, my boyfriend, my decision to move out and have sex, and I made it through. I made it through 8 months of this. You can make it through ten, but in the meantime, do what you have to in order to keep your mind healthy. You are not helping yourself by going to church and being "honest". Are you being true to yourself by going? You're only hurting yourself and making it ten times harder to come through the transition as quickly as you would like. As far as your mother being controlling, I was an only child, not allowed to go to the park across the street by myself as a teenager. I had to grab the keys and leave the house in the middle of a confrontation with my mother without telling her in the middle of the night, call my boyfriend, have him pick me up and take me to his place to spend the night with him so that she would realize she had no control over my beliefs and values. I'm sorry, sky dancer, but this isn't always easy for everyone. The best you can do is do what is best for you! Not to please someone else. Otherwise you really haven't broken free at all.

[Neon Genesis]

I guess the problem I am having is convincing myself that I'm right in my disbelief depsite all those who eagerly believe. How could they all be wrong and I be right?

Just because a belief is popular doesn't make it right. It used to be a popular belief that slavery was moral and justified but that didn't mean slavery was right, did it?

 

This is the question that keeps going over and over in my head. I am constantly having to go over the reasons in my head of why I don't believe. I still fear hell. Also, the verses in the bible that say many believers will fall away in the last days keep jumping out at me. I ask myself: what if it's us who are all wrong?

What if we die and it turns out god is real but god favors skeptics who honestly seek the truth over Christians who blindly follow whatever their religion tells them to? In that case, it would be better to be a skeptic than a Christian because if you die and it turns out god isn't real you would have lost nothing, but if you die and it turns out god is real yet he favors skepticism over Christians, then skeptics will have gained everything and Christians will have lost everything. Even if a god does exist, it's just as likely that god will decide to save non-believers instead of Christians as it is the other way around, so Christians are in the same boat as everyone else. Even if there was a god, if a god would be so petty as to punish people with hellfire for something as small as not believing in it, is that god really worth worshiping? Heaven couldn't have been all that great if Satan rebelled against something that was supposedly perfect. We wouldn't worship Hitler if he threatened us to worship him or be sent to the concentration camps. so why should we give god special treatment when god is even worse than Hitler?

 

 

On another note, I live with my parents. When I stopped truck driving and came back to finish college in August 07, I moved back in with my parents becuase it was cheaper and allowed me to go as a full time student. I will graduate in May 09. Part of the condition, and yes I mean as in requirement, of my living here is that I attend church regularly. My mom doesn't care where I go to church as long as I'm in church on Sunday.

If your mother doesn't care where you go to church as long as you're somewhere, could you perhaps find a liberal denomination to attend until you can move out? Maybe you could try to see if there's a Unitarian Universalist church in your area? Or at least a church that doesn't believe in hellfire or biblical inerrancy? I don't know how likely it is to find a liberal denomination in your area, though.

[decafaholic]

Sweetie, honesty is over rated. Go to breakfast instead. What harm will it do? Why hold on to that honesty? Is it hurting you or helping you? Is it really benefiting your mother in any way? You won't hurt her by going to breakfast instead if she doesn't know.

 

I have to differ with you there. Skydancer lives in a very small town. I had the same problem when I lived there during the school year. Living a double life is easy in a big city, but in a town where everyone knows everyone's business, it's very difficult. In an average trip to Walmart, I might see my professor, some classmates, friends of my family or all of the above. If skydancer did decide to lie to his parents and go somewhere else on sunday, he would be constantly looking over his shoulder.

 

When his parents eventually find out that he's not a Christian anymore, it will only make things worse if they find out that he's also been intentionally lying the whole time. Dont get me wrong, there are times when what our parents don't know won't hurt them, but in this case I think his chances of getting caught are very high.

[Guest lenbitme]

I understand better now, decafaholic. I have had the luxury of living in city with a lot of coming and going, and you're lucky if you know your next door neighbor, lol. I can see where that would pose a problem, and in that case, it does make the situation much harder.