Ouroboros Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Good try Leonardo, but let's see some reproducability and accuracy with your presentation of the "Science of Love" as it effects all things.... According to studies done by scientists, there are commonalities to whom we fall in love to. For instance we tend to like similarities. It's well known that if we rate beauty on a scale of 1-9, a person who is 7 tends to marry someone who is also a 7. Male tends to fall in love from what they see, and women tends to fall in love in men who are stable, mature and can provide a support for a family. It's also known that romantic love only lasts a few months to maybe 1 or 2 years, and long relationships only builds on companionate love, which you build up through trust and not just by a high from chemicals. Mostly my source here is from Psychology in Action, 8th edition, by Karen Huffman, module 52 - Social Psychology. You want the page numbers too? And there's more to it. I have a book (which I can't find right now) where they specify mathematical formulas to why we find certain faces or bodies more attractive than others. It's about proportions. The same proportions are even found in the spiral shape on sea-shells. We do follow many basic mathematical and game-theory rules in what we do, how we decided and how we feel. However, sometimes, which is also known, we are affected by chemicals, enzymes, hormones, social situations and so on. But the key is, it's not really a mystery, but rather that is hard to understand because it's so complex. Love is like a rain storm. Meteorologists know how weather systems works, but they can only predict it to a certain degree, and love follows natural laws, it's just too darn complex for us to predict. That doesn't make it illogical or irrational, it only seems that way. Now tell me how the Bible explains what causes Love? Oh, yeah, God's magical powers. It's spiritual. So basically, no one ever felt love, unless they were Christian. Love didn't exist before Jesus. Knowledge about morality, society and altruism was invented by Jesus©. Do you want me to tell you something scary? Well, I do it anyway -- this is from my Psy book too --, premature babies, the pretty ones have a higher survival rate and gets to go home earlier, while he ugly ones don't. Reason? The studies show, their pretty-attributes makes it more likely that the nurses give them more care. Subconsciously. It's not intentional, just natural. (But it's not fun to hear.) If you want me to, I can look up exactly page, and also the names of the scientists, and year they made the publication. But I don't think you really care for what experiments of nature really shows, because you rather live in a fantasy world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 But I don't think you really care for what experiments of nature really shows, because you rather live in a fantasy world... I appreciate you tenacity and efforts to point out my lack of desire to truly understand. I have it here in literature right now that you have taken the time to pen.... Seriously, right now I am looking to understand and build a compression mold......diligently trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 But I don't think you really care for what experiments of nature really shows, because you rather live in a fantasy world... I appreciate you tenacity and efforts to point out my lack of desire to truly understand. I have it here in literature right now that you have taken the time to pen.... Seriously, right now I am looking to understand and build a compression mold......diligently trying. We all make assumptions. You assume I don't care about people, and I assume you don't want to understand. So we're even. The problem with the mold is that when you use religion as your basis, you have no foundation but an old and faulty book. While establishing your knowledge and understanding (mold) on science and nature, you at least know that nature won't change, only the explanations and understanding will, because it will grow and evolve to a better one. (Btw, your language has improved over the time you've been on this site, so there's some benefit for you to learn from the heathens. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 And btw End, regarding your comment that I don't care about you, I assume you think that because we're such a hard-ass bunch here and use abusive language and we don't treat you nice, well, it's Biblical. We love you, and care for you, and if we spare the rod, we'll spoil the child, so that's why we're so abusive in our language. After all, you should be used to harsh treatment from the lessons from your God already, it's the way of the Biblical God -- so what's up the sour face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncleamin Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 IMHO, I don't see why people feel because science has answered the "how" to many of man's questions regarding human behavior, that it strongly points to no God. To me, it would be the same thing as us finding a an alien machine here on earth and figuring out how it works by studying it and taking it apart. Yes, you've discovered how it works, but you don't know how it got there or what it purpose it serves. I guess you do know the "where" if you accept evolution as fact. Anyway, just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 IMHO, I don't see why people feel because science has answered the "how" to many of man's questions regarding human behavior, that it strongly points to no God. To me, it would be the same thing as us finding a an alien machine here on earth and figuring out how it works by studying it and taking it apart. Yes, you've discovered how it works, but you don't know how it got there or what it purpose it serves. I guess you do know the "where" if you accept evolution as fact. Anyway, just a thought. True. But you can't take the things that can be explained in nature as evidence for a supernatural source. If they can be explained in nature, then they are explained in nature, not in super-nature. And when it comes to many of the "how" of human behavior, it's pretty wide and deep. It's not just like some pop-culture little explanation to why we like chocolate more than vanilla or such, but much, much more. But you're right, just because we can see that all that we are and how we behave all comes from nature and can be explained, it doesn't point to no-God, but it points to that the reason and source of our behavior is not from God, otherwise it couldn't be explained at all. Most of the time the Christians' arguments are based on ignorance and lack of knowledge. Take your machine as an example. We find it, and we don't know if it's alien or human. We research it. Everything we find in it can be made by humans, and suddenly we find labels, names and numbers that match the names and production of human factories. Does this mean the machine is more likely human or have the possibility of being alien? Well, the Christians argument is, "The Aliens made it look like it was made by human." Which isn't good enough for me. Of course it's possible, but it's far more likely that the machine was made by humans, if it contains human artifacts. The same with nature. If nature contains natural artifacts for everything we know and can understand, it's more likely that the source is nature and not the possibility of some magical, invisible, being, with superpowers. Superman is just a story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbiebrains100 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 My Two Cents Worth And A Price-Check on Brut Deodorant: I was shopping at Wal-Mart for a good razor to shave my drunken cat and found Occam’s Razor lodged somewhere between the toxic bottles of Axe Male Body Spray and the Brut Deodorant. Since I am a consumer advocate, I always read labels: Occam’s Razor: Occam's razor is a principle which states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory. This is often paraphrased as "All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best." When the supernatural is introduced into an argument, added to the facts or even used to explain a phenomenon, you have built a Gordion Knot. The Gordion Knot is very different from the knot referred to as the Devil’s Tongue. A group of Finnish female pirates invented the latter back in the fifteenth century and named it the Devil’s Tongue because it twisted this way and that, in a most complicated and eerie way. The Gordion Knot was a fancy knot tied in a piece of rope by a king named Gordius. Gordius said that if Alexander the Great could untie it, he could rule the whole kingdom. But Alexander, who was too busy conquering places to learn how to untie knots, simply drew his sword and cut the Gordion Knot in two. This was cheating, of course, but Alexander had too many soldiers for Gordius to argue, and soon everybody in Gordium had to bow down to You-Know-Who the Great. This was also the first documented use of Occam’s Razor, although historians and philosophers will argue with me on this point. Ever since then, a difficult problem can be called a Gordion Knot, and if you solve the problem in a simple way-such as using Occam’s Razor-you are cutting the Gordion Knot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 And there's more to it. I have a book (which I can't find right now) where they specify mathematical formulas to why we find certain faces or bodies more attractive than others. It's about proportions. The same proportions are even found in the spiral shape on sea-shells. We do follow many basic mathematical and game-theory rules in what we do, how we decided and how we feel. It's called the Golden Mean or Golden Ratio or the Fibonacci sequence and looks like this: ----------------------------------------------------------- Edit Barbie, Just for the record I love your style! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbiebrains100 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Just for the record Chef...thanks! I amuse myself while at work.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Thanks Chef, Most of my posts are just thrown together at the spur of the moment (I rarely have more than a few minutes here and there), and I just couldn't remember what it was called when I wrote the post. But that's exactly right. The golden ratio is influencing our feeling of beauty and balance. If I remember right, it's part of the ratios if you take a photography, and how much sky vs ground etc you show. Some even have seen the golden ratio in the stock market. I wonder if it's in music too? I haven't heard anything about that yet, but it wouldn't surprise me... --- Barbie, I 2nd Chef's comment about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbiebrains100 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Thanks Hans...I enjoy reading your arguments. Fundies run from you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Fundies run from you! Yeah... no one wants to play with me... ... I like to play ... with my food... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tund1979 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Good topic. The whole idea of asking God to reveal your "purpose in life" is a huge preoccupation for my church. Sermons and Bible studies are dominated by this search for a "unique purpose." I cannot find this sort of teaching anywhere in the scriptures. Bible teachers claim that whilst it is not explicitly stated "ask god to reveal your unique purpose" the idea is implied throughout the New Testament. However, the whole modern concept of 'individualism' was completely unknown in those days. The bible was written in a time of Kings who ruled as masters over their citizens; a time before democracy and individual freedom was known. This idea seems to be a very modern adaptation of Christian teaching, influenced by humanism and capitalism more than what the bible actually says. Having said this, let me just say that I have spent many years in mental anguish and frustration trying desperately to "Know" God's purpose for me. It seems like its just one more thing to feel guilty about. It has only been in the last 12 months, since beginning to question my faith, that I have been able to live in the moment, to simply be happy with who I am, regardless of how 'successful' I am, and to allow myself to explore career options, hobbies and interests without needing to consult God every step of the way (and constantly double-guessing myself). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 IMHO, I don't see why people feel because science has answered the "how" to many of man's questions regarding human behavior, that it strongly points to no God. It doesn't so much point to "no god" as it identifies things that don't require gods. I'm currently working on the assumption that the best way to locate a real god is to systematically cut away all the parts of reality that don't look like a god. Scientific inquiry serves that purpose quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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