I Was Limiting God

[Michael]

When I was at a point of considering my faith failing, (the thread about my dad), that is when all of ya'll stepped in and said, "We have been there". I equate that support as God. So how could God be here? Because I limited Him to there.

 

I felt He left me alone for about one day before He made Himself known to me through ya'll.

 

So again, if God is the judge, and not our understanding alone, why could He not bring any of us to Himself at His will?

 

This is some pretty wierd stuff, but I can understand where you come from. I like to say, that it is quiet strange to make all of us to "gods little helpers". I am not gods tool in any way. So he helped you through us? Maybe we are just human being that helped you.

 

And he will not bring any of us to himself because he is non existent.

 

As I said, I can understand your way of thinking (I had the same kind of ideas), but those ideas will not help you. You are making up some strange stuff just to prove to yourself, that god is still caring and loving. You are free to do so, but I do not consider myself as gods help for anybody.

 

Keep going, I think you are making important steps.

[florduh]

Are you getting it, end3? We recognize as exChristians the stages you are going through. It isn't easy for most people.

 

Keep searching. I think you'll figure it out.

 

- Chris

[Ouroboros]

I know it's a different pantheon, but it's all but a re-enactment of the passion of Wotan....

Isn't Wotan the same as Odin? Then isn't it the same pantheon... right...?

 

Unfortunately I didn't pay enough attention in history class. We did study Asatro and the stories about Odin, Loke, Tor, Freja and so on, and the Edda and much more, in school, but I was a religious freak and didn't want to know... stupid indoctrination takes away your will to learn the good stuff... So if you can just provide a short outline of the passion of Wotan, because I'm not sure I remember it. The only story I remember, and vaguely at best, is about Loke and the Fenris ulven.

[bush country]

Hey Chris,

 

Yes, I am drawing that parallel. I will admit my faith was, sometimes is, having problems as I catch myself in a mocking mode ocassionally. Here is the point. When I was at a point of considering my faith failing, (the thread about my dad), that is when all of ya'll stepped in and said, "We have been there". I equate that support as God. So how could God be here? Because I limited Him to there. And if I limited Him in understanding His choices/decisions, then how shallow is this....I should go back and sit as if I knew it all, perhaps on the front row.

 

I felt He left me alone for about one day before He made Himself known to me through ya'll.

 

I am thinking I am not altering the book, as I feel Jesus was in the same "status" that a saved Christian is in when He gave up his relationship. I feel Phillipians 3:8-12, Jesus lament in the garden, and Paul stating he would trade all so his brothers could benefit are evidence of this concept.

 

So again, if God is the judge, and not our understanding alone, why could He not bring any of us to Himself at His will?

 

Again, I know some are adamant about disbelief, I accept that. Please disregard the thread if necessary.

 

End,

 

Please don't regard people giving you kind answers as being instruments of god. I see you struggling with your faith, hope you will deconvert, and do not want to drive you away with unkind words. Do not saddle me, and I think I speak for many here, with calling you back into the fold.

 

"God" did not use us to call you back. If you have been taught as I have, you think that god works his plan using anyone and everyone, even those that do not believe in him. That's bullshit. You have chosen to interpret it as that but is just ain't so.

 

He didn't leave you alone for about one day, he has left you alone your entire life because he does not exist.

[Guest end3]

"Using anyone" on behalf of God was not something I intentionally did. I just made the connection after the event.

 

It's all good, I will land in a spot someday.

[Legion]

End, you are very difficult to understand sometimes. I don’t know if that’s your fault or mine. I don’t care if you believe in God or remain a Christian. But it seems to me that you are much less of a fundamentalist now than when you first arrived and that seems like progress to me.

 

Here’s to our continued growth…

[Grandpa Harley]

I know it's a different pantheon, but it's all but a re-enactment of the passion of Wotan....

Isn't Wotan the same as Odin? Then isn't it the same pantheon... right...?

 

Unfortunately I didn't pay enough attention in history class. We did study Asatro and the stories about Odin, Loke, Tor, Freja and so on, and the Edda and much more, in school, but I was a religious freak and didn't want to know... stupid indoctrination takes away your will to learn the good stuff... So if you can just provide a short outline of the passion of Wotan, because I'm not sure I remember it. The only story I remember, and vaguely at best, is about Loke and the Fenris ulven.

 

 

You can say the same of Zeus and Jupiter Wotan is the Germanic version, Odin the Scandic and Wodan(Woden) the Celt... all pretty much the same... all one eyes kings of rhe gods who hung from trees for nine days and nights over the pit of hell transifxed with spears...

[Ouroboros]

You can say the same of Zeus and Jupiter Wotan is the Germanic version, Odin the Scandic and Wodan(Woden) the Celt... all pretty much the same... all one eyes kings of rhe gods who hung from trees for nine days and nights over the pit of hell transifxed with spears...

Yeah, that's true. They're derived from the same sources, not exactly the same, just different versions of the same religion.

[chefranden]

I would like to put this out there, because it is relevant to me, and could possibly mean something to someone else. I am positive many will not see this in the same light as did I. Please, I know this already and would appreciate little abuse. Thanks.

 

I have always been taught as a Christian that when we give our lives to Christ, how ever you wish to do that, belief, baptism, sprinkling, whatever.... that we essentially "die to self", which I interpret as saying goodbye to my worldly, natural soul, and letting God's Spirit replace mine to be made like Him, glory to glory so to speak...end of story....entailing: good works, hold on to your faith, go to church, move up the political church ladder, and on and on, die, go to Heaven.

 

What was never taught to me was after being baptized by John, in his position of salvation, and having the same relationship we enjoy, that then He gave this too away on the cross.

 

So now I am thinking that separation from God is something that Jesus did.

And here is the key in my mind, (small though it may be), is that I limited God to a place taught by my religion, that says, if I separate myself from Him, that that is it.....death, hell, blah, blah... I never gave God the capability of being God, and in that, having the ability to move, or do, in a way other than what I had limited him to via tradition, doctrine, etc.

 

Point being, after separation, God reached in and brought Jesus to Himself.

 

 

Are you intending to say that Jesus wasn't God? Because that is what you are saying and that is heresy.

 

Not even God can separate from himself. I suppose that God could have some kind of multiple personality disorder though. Judging from scripture he's at least a manic depressive. Mental disorders are not the stuff of salvation at least from a rational point of view. Poor God couldn't even decide how to give away salvation. (compare Ezekiel 18 and Matthew 25:31-46 with Paul's method.)

 

You are right doubting that death of one guy was enough to pay for sin though. Supposedly Jesus didn't even stay dead. Less than 3 days of death is not enough to make up for sin that is supposed to merit eternal torture. The whole bloody idea is nonsense.

 

I don't blame you for not being able to see it though. It took me 40 years to see through the veil.

[R. S. Martin]

I notice that the people responding most favourably and sympathetically to end are people who have not been around all that long and have not seen his former escapades on here. I also note that even they see some curious behaviour and ideas in him. Madame and Taph are exceptions in that they have been around a long time and are also being nice.

 

End hates me and not without reason. He comes across to me as a very suspicious and untrustworthy personality. In the shoutbox a few days ago I reminded him of an issue that took place late last fall in which he kept shifting shapes and identities in his posts--not names but background info and writing style kept changing drastically. Rather than deal with it or make things right and confess to anything in the shoutbox, he stopped talking to me. When I called him on it he suggested it would be best for me not to read him anymore.

 

I think this statement from Post 21 in this thread was directed at me:

 

Again, I know some are adamant about disbelief, I accept that. Please disregard the thread if necessary.

 

At first I thought I had to listen to him. Then I realized that HE was on MY turf and that no way do *I*--the exChristian--have to listen to *him* the intruder.

 

This is the thread from last fall that I am talking about. Posts 146 and following regard the specific topic of his suspicious identity. End3 you are hereby given an opportunity to clear your name. True remorse and genuine regret for former folly is something all of us here are familiar and sympathic with. You can speak openly here. But we are also very tuned in to and suspicious of ulterior motives, hidden agendas, and emotional manipulation.

 

What is your answer?

[Grandpa Harley]

*Sets up his deck chair for the show...*

[florduh]

Thanks, Ruby. I didn't know there was a suspicious history.

 

He seemed to me like one trying to deconvert but not knowing how.

 

I tend to give the benefit of doubt when facing an unknown. It's one of my character flaws.

 

- Chris

[par4dcourse]

"Using anyone" on behalf of God was not something I intentionally did. I just made the connection after the event

Boo, and 666, and fuck your bible , and jaysus was a capricorn. Did all those gawdly inspiriations help?

[R. S. Martin]

Gramps you think this coward will show up? I anticipate this will be a no-show.

 

Of course, if he does show up I will be ready for him.

[Grandpa Harley]

Hey, I'm a groundling in this death match...

[R. S. Martin]

Thanks, Ruby. I didn't know there was a suspicious history.

 

He seemed to me like one trying to deconvert but not knowing how.

 

I tend to give the benefit of doubt when facing an unknown. It's one of my character flaws.

 

- Chris

 

I respect you for it. You gave him an honest chance to prove himself ready to deconvert. I could not believe he was serious but I also believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt--second and third chances, you know. Very serious character flaw on my part. But when he started acting funny it seemed to me time to enlighten folk. Even so, it seems only fair to allow him to explain himself. He may actually be ready to change position.

[Legion]

How about it End? Are you going to respond to these charges?

[The-Captain]

These things are always fun to watch.

[Antlerman]

That's interesting end. You feel that God helped you through us, but you don't get this from this Christian community itself. Isn't this telling to you? It's interesting that whatever God seems to be to you, you see him 'at work' here amongst us human beings, yet "he" somehow fails to exist in those that believe in him. I know why this is, but I don't know if my telling is something you're ready to hear. You're still trying to make it all fit into those ideas from the Institutional religion of Christianity. Best advice is to set the book aside, open your eyes, ears, and heart, and listen to yourself. "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free".

[R. S. Martin]

Hey thanks everyone. Before I posted I was thinking folk might say to let by-gones be by-gones. But when Gramps set up his deck chair I knew people would come out of the woodwork.

[Legion]

I don't know if End is trying to manipulate anyone. But I do know that he is often very difficult to understand. The problems here might be one of miscommunication.

[SWIM]

Hey thanks everyone. Before I posted I was thinking folk might say to let by-gones be by-gones. But when Gramps set up his deck chair I knew people would come out of the woodwork.

 

I totally forgot about that old thread Ruby, lol git em!

 

/me pulls up chair next to gramps and passes him a joint.

[Antlerman]

I notice that the people responding most favourably and sympathetically to end are people who have not been around all that long and have not seen his former escapades on here. I also note that even they see some curious behaviour and ideas in him. Madame and Taph are exceptions in that they have been around a long time and are also being nice.

 

End hates me and not without reason. He comes across to me as a very suspicious and untrustworthy personality. In the shoutbox a few days ago I reminded him of an issue that took place late last fall in which he kept shifting shapes and identities in his posts--not names but background info and writing style kept changing drastically. Rather than deal with it or make things right and confess to anything in the shoutbox, he stopped talking to me. When I called him on it he suggested it would be best for me not to read him anymore.

 

I think this statement from Post 21 in this thread was directed at me:

 

Again, I know some are adamant about disbelief, I accept that. Please disregard the thread if necessary.

 

At first I thought I had to listen to him. Then I realized that HE was on MY turf and that no way do *I*--the exChristian--have to listen to *him* the intruder.

 

This is the thread from last fall that I am talking about. Posts 146 and following regard the specific topic of his suspicious identity. End3 you are hereby given an opportunity to clear your name. True remorse and genuine regret for former folly is something all of us here are familiar and sympathic with. You can speak openly here. But we are also very tuned in to and suspicious of ulterior motives, hidden agendas, and emotional manipulation.

 

What is your answer?

Whoa... easy there. I'm not going to take someone's vacillating about, ups and downs and sideways indecisivenesses in posts as spelling out that they are devious and mischievous and not to be trusted! I've seen this tact taken with others here in the past and it's way, way too easy to let paranoia lead to more paranoia and lead to witch hunts.

 

There are many, many other explanations for the things that seem 'unusal' than a sneaky snake trying to deceive and mislead. I'm one who rarely misses in smelling out a fraud, usually instantly. I have a pretty strong intuition about others. Despite these things, I don't see an insincere person - and I would. The other posts such as Madam and the others have been around longer than yourself, and I'm not sensing their fraud-radar going off either.

 

If he showing himself nothing more than a troll, then I'll deal with him. I'm not going to allow witch hunts to start again. It's not your place to police these boards.

[florduh]

No witch hunts? Damn Christians have all the fun!

 

Legion is right, End can be a little obtuse. Maybe if we ever understand what he is saying we can help.

 

- Chris

[par4dcourse]

I don't know if End is trying to manipulate anyone. But I do know that he is often very difficult to understand. The problems here might be one of miscommunication.

Lege, read his post!! No miscommunication there. He was spouting typical xtian dogma a few weeks ago. When he got soundly throunced by several members, he made nice for a little while. Now he's back to his old tricks.