currentchristian Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 Well, Dave, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the original post and what it means. No problem with that. You raise an interesting point about how one is born. We certainly are not born theists, but I also don't think we are born atheists. We are born with a tabula rasa, a blank slate. I would think, however, that most of our species are quite susceptible to the concept of theism or at least some sort of belief: in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, etc. We seem to naturally cling to such ideas of supernaturalism. Either the Source or the Evolution programmed us to be theistically inclined. One thing for sure, Dave, that you and I have in very much in common: Neither of us is an ex-Christian. -CC in MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Well, Dave, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the original post and what it means. No problem with that. Their claim was that since the students talked about religion more often that they must include more religious programming in their curriculum. We talk a lot about religion around here. That doesn't mean we need more religious training. They also mentioned a student cheating and tried, although not outright in the article, to hint that more religious programs would make the students more moral and not cheat. Conflating morals with religion is an insult to all of us moral Atheists. You raise an interesting point about how one is born. We certainly are not born theists, but I also don't think we are born atheists. We are born with a tabula rasa, a blank slate. That "blank slate" (which is not completely blank) contains no god beliefs. Anyone lacking a belief in gods is an Atheist. It's a default position. I would think, however, that most of our species are quite susceptible to the concept of theism or at least some sort of belief: in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, etc. We seem to naturally cling to such ideas of supernaturalism. Either the Source or the Evolution programmed us to be theistically inclined. No, evolution programmed us to go along with the herd. Those that "believed" got to stay with the community and benefited from the resources and protection that a community provides. Those that did not believe were expelled and that was a death sentence. It was only recently in human history that we stopped banishing or killing non believers. One thing for sure, Dave, that you and I have in very much in common: Neither of us is an ex-Christian. That means there is hope for you yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Although I am Australian and live in Australia, I do manage an Atheist MSN Group based in America. The more I see of what is going on in America with Christianity controlling the country, especially from the WHite House with that whacko fundie christian, Dubya there, the more shocked I am. One University in Melbourne, Australia has a theological college because the Roman Catholic Church had to close it's seminaries because of the lack of customers and throw in it's lot with other denominations. If I went to Harvard to study Astronomy (dunno if you can there) I, as an Atheist would object strongly if I was forced to study religion. I don't believe in a "creator/god" or that "intelligent design" crap. How long before the USA gets a name change: to the United Christian States of America? It already discriminates against Atheists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skankboy Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 If I went to Harvard to study Astronomy (dunno if you can there) I, as an Atheist would object strongly if I was forced to study religion. I don't believe in a "creator/god" or that "intelligent design" crap. That's not the point. Religion (good or bad) has been a primary driving force in culture since the dawn of time. To dismiss it's influence outright is just dumb. I think world religion classes are fantastic for college students (especially christian ones). Nothing will shake the rock of faith faster than being exposed to other viewpoints like these. But that is the only way in which I believe religion belongs in any educational setting. In this day and age, we cannot afford anglo-centric learning strategies. The world is too small to believe that "our way is the best or only way" anymore. Exposure to the history of religions and the cultures that spawned them is an excellent place to start. IMOHO, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currentchristian Posted February 14, 2007 Author Share Posted February 14, 2007 Although I am Australian and live in Australia, I do manage an Atheist MSN Group based in America. The more I see of what is going on in America with Christianity controlling the country, especially from the WHite House with that whacko fundie christian, Dubya there, the more shocked I am. One University in Melbourne, Australia has a theological college because the Roman Catholic Church had to close it's seminaries because of the lack of customers and throw in it's lot with other denominations. If I went to Harvard to study Astronomy (dunno if you can there) I, as an Atheist would object strongly if I was forced to study religion. I don't believe in a "creator/god" or that "intelligent design" crap. How long before the USA gets a name change: to the United Christian States of America? It already discriminates against Atheists. Since 71% of Americans do not approve of the direction the country is heading in, you needn't be worried. President Bush will be gone in two years (can't come soon enough for me or most Americans!), and we'll be heading in another direction. Thankfully, no one group controls America. We have a system of separation of powers, separation of church and state, checks and balances, limited government, and a representative democracy under a inviolable Constitution. Regarding taking a class in religion. It is unfortunate, as I see it, that you would close your mind to such a study. One does not have to believe in anything to seek to understand the history and culture of the various peoples of the world. Understanding does not imply endorsement. -CC in MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Here's something interesting to know. Back in my socialistic, agnostic/atheist dominated, home land, we have religious studies in highschool, and it didn't hurt anyone or cause anyone to convert to any religion, but it did made me (I was Christian then - the only one in class) see other religious views which perhaps was in the back of my head for all these years and maybe helped me deconvert. Who knows? Anyway, religious studies are good if *all* religions are covered, at least major ones. If only Christianity is taught, then it is a violation of the constitution. To just teach knowledge about religions is good, to favor one in purpose to influence and convert is bad. One does not have to believe in anything to seek to understand the history and culture of the various peoples of the world. Understanding does not imply endorsement. Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 How long before the USA gets a name change: to the United Christian States of America? It already discriminates against Atheists. Over half the country already believes it is the UCSA. Since christians have shown that they cannot be trusted not to keep from proselytizing in schools, any such class would have to be monitored closely. It should be an elective and not a requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 That's not the point. Religion (good or bad) has been a primary driving force in culture since the dawn of time. To dismiss it's influence outright is just dumb. I agree with that. The Christian religion has been a major player in Western history. That cannot be denied. I think world religion classes are fantastic for college students (especially christian ones). Nothing will shake the rock of faith faster than being exposed to other viewpoints like these. But that is the only way in which I believe religion belongs in any educational setting. ..... I agree with all that. I just got the feeling that the group mentioned in the OP wanted more than that. It seems, to me, that they want to teach morals based on religious beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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