Which Is The True Religion?

[pandora]

So why don't you care if the denomination you are with is the "right" one? Why don't you try to find the right one?

[pug]

So why don't you care if the denomination you are with is the "right" one? Why don't you try to find the right one?

 

Pandora, those "true and right" words are loaded! Let's just say I'm comfortable with the one i'm with right now - broadly Protestant (not strong fundamentalist). We pray a lot, we speak in tongues, we fall (that slaying bit really shocked me when first i witnessed it) and i think i better not say more - each "confession" will be dissected and put under the microscope, and i'll be boiled n marinated till i'm cooked, then hung up to dry. -

[Ouroboros]

Pug, I guess in a way you're lucky to be in a less fanatic congregation, because they could have opinions about what websites you're visiting (like ours)

[pug]

yes HanSolo, but you do get the odd fanatical so-called senior - once she asked me if i believe in God - and this was in church! *sigh*

[Ouroboros]

Pug, you have my sympathies. When something like that happens, it makes you a bit depressed, because you fight hard and believe what you believe, and yet your beliefs are questioned by someone supposedly there to support you. I'm sorry to say, but it is (unconsciously) an emotional manipulation to make you feel guilty and dig deeper into the religion. You're a devout church goer, who would do that unless they did believe, or at least believed they believed. So again, Pug, you have my sympathies.

[Japedo]

Han has put it right there... i'm comfortable with that statement. The jury is still out on which is the "true" religion. And, frankly, it's not that important (to me).

 

 

I think this say's a lot about 'believers' in general. Many people take their 'faith' more of a value then 'truth'. I guess their are truth seekers and those who pride themselves on staying blind but hoping to be right on some sort of gut feeling.

 

No matter what wisdom or information the truth seekers see or offer, the Blind (faithful) see it as trying to test or tempt them away from their faith. Truth be dammed of course.

[Antlerman]

Overall, i'm with the Bible God. As you know there are thousands of denominations. I'm of the Assemblies of God and that is actually an off shoot of Pentecostal denomination. Then i found out the Charismatics (from this d) is quite extreme in the US. Here in Malaysia, it's not.

 

Oooh err. rambling... i can't possibly answer each newcomer, please excuse me. Well, ok, i can't explain it but my God do answer prayers. Not just mine, but the folks at my church - Faith Charismatic Centre.

The Assembies of God is not an offshoot of a Pentecostal denomination. The early Penetecostal movement had no denominations, and didn't want to form denominations. But what happened is that in 1914 with the controvesy of the Jesus only movement (denys the Trinity), it caused them to tighten ranks to define their beliefs. That was the birth of the denomination of the Assemblies of God. The other group later formed the United Pentecosal Chrurch in 1945 (I'm quite familiar with them).

 

Isn't that whole slain in the spirit thing, and talking in tongues freaky? You know they've been doing that in other religions since long before Christianity, don't you? It's quite prevelant in a lot of African religions, and is practiced in Voodoo too. Odd, that the Holy Spirit would copy them, isn't it?

[pug]

the founding Secretary of the Assemblies of God, Ozman's experience was the "touch felt round the world," an event which "made the Pentecostal Movement of the Twentieth Century."

I read in another site that yes, AOG is from Pentecostal. The above quote is from another site

http://www.oru.edu/university/library/holy...t/pentorg1.html

 

AOG is the second largest (in US) "off-shoot" from the Pentecostal denomination. I think United P is the largest "off-shoot"

 

The first "Pentecostals" in the modern sense appeared on the scene in 1901 in the city of Topeka, Kansas in a Bible school conducted by Charles Fox Parham, a holiness teacher and former Methodist pastor. In spite of controversy over the origins and timing of Parham's emphasis on glossolalia, all historians agree that the movement began during the first days of 1901 just as the world entered the Twentieth Century.

 

In time the Assemblies of God church was destined to become the largest Pentecostal denominational church in the world, claiming by 1993 over 2,000,000 members in the U.S. and some 25,000,000 adherents in 150 nations of the world.

[NotBlinded]

"True religion" is an oxymoron.

 

That was my initial impression, but to expand upon it: Religion is subjective, not objective. Everyone views the gods from different GPS coordinates. No one sees exactly the same thing; therefore, from an objective POV, truth is not possible.

 

Viewing the matter from within one's own subjectivity, we tend to experience religion with the "spiritual" aspect of our emotions. Whatever we feel, we feel. Externally it may be so divorced from reality as to be utter steaming crap; but internally we experience what we experience and therefore feel it to be emotional truth.

 

For this reason I feel that "spiritual" experiences are true for ourselves and ourselves only; but organized religions are false for everyone.

That is so true and wonderfully said.

 

The problem lies in organized religion telling it's followers what the symbols are supposed to mean. The symbols are supposed to invoke a very subjective feeling of spirituality in each person and each person's experience will be different. It has to be, or its purpose becomes one of control and pack mentalitiy, not spirituality.

[NotBlinded]

Back to the subject thou, if there is a true religion, and this true religion does exist today, what do we really mean with the word "religion"? Do we mean what the religion supposedly is teaching or how the followers interpret the teachings?

To me, that would indicate what a false religion is. The post by Astreja that I quoted above this post explains it well. A "true" religion isn't supposed to interpret the symbols of the myth for them. How can two different people experience the same emotions when God is felt? They have different life experiences and will experience this differently. They are supposed to. This is where religion errs, IMO. God is an experience, not an idol that these major religions have created. If the symbols of one religion doesn't inspire in oneself a feeling of Awe, or the energy of life, then maybe another one will. Or, maybe no relgion will, but something that happens in life will.

 

These religions just need to stop telling people what they are supposed to feel when the word/symbol God is mentioned. It can't happen that way...

[Ouroboros]

Right NBBTB, that's the point. There's no "true" religion since no one can follow a religion and maintain a trueness to it. It's like "if you meet Buddha, kill him." The only way to follow is not to follow. Your way is the true way for you.

[Open_Minded]

Han has put it right there... i'm comfortable with that statement. The jury is still out on which is the "true" religion. And, frankly, it's not that important (to me).

Good to hear this Pug, honestly, it is good to hear you say this.

 

My objective was just "food for thought". The guys who put it up are from 5 separate religions (thanks for that detail OP).

No problem....

 

But .... I do have a question ..... you put this this information up here as "food for thought". So.... given the reality - that there are so many different religions to choose from and finding the "TRUE" one is not "that important" to you - then - where are you at with the doctrine of hell?

 

Given the information you put up here for discussion - how can a literal hell where those who "don't believe the TRUE religion" are tortured for eternity be reconciled with a God of LOVE?

 

And...

 

If knowing whether you - yourself - are involved in the TRUE religion isn't "that important" - then how can you be sure you won't fry in hell?

[NotBlinded]

Right NBBTB, that's the point. There's no "true" religion since no one can follow a religion and maintain a trueness to it. It's like "if you meet Buddha, kill him." The only way to follow is not to follow. Your way is the true way for you.

Ohhhh...I see what you're sayin'!

 

I think a religion can be true to those which the symbols of that myth inspire spirituality in them. They would group together, because of the symbols and discuss what it means to them without claiming it means something else and it should mean that to you too. I guess that is what I would call truth in relgion, not a true religion.

 

It would have to change to not require any of the "you must see it this way or else" dogma. As it is now, the Catholic church many, many years ago started telling people what they are suppose to feel by intrepreting the symbols for them. It may have worked then, but now it is archaic and many will fall away from that because the "description" of the symbols/language doesn't fit into our lives today.

 

They can follow a religion and maintain a trueness to it if they can understand that this is what works for them while something else may work for someone else and that someone else is also being true to what works for them.

 

When anything invokes this feeling in someone, then that is where their spirituality, or worship should be. If it is with your children, then that is where your devotion should be. It is just as true for this person as a person in a church.

 

We're sayin' the same thing aren't we??

[white_raven23]

yes HanSolo, but you do get the odd fanatical so-called senior - once she asked me if i believe in God - and this was in church! *sigh*

 

Ugh.

 

I remember that kind of thing. Used to go to a Free Methodist church, and every now and then we'd have "visits" of choir groups and missionaries from elsewhere come in. And what would they do? Witness to us! What the heck! WE were the ones funding their activites elsewhere, and I used to think the "elsewheres" were Third world countries. Turns out "elsewhere" is anywhere away from your own church. So they pass the plate around and encourage us to give to their cause....which was to go to another nice, safe, suburban church in the Midwest or maybe the East Coast (America) and "witness" for god.

 

So not only do they preach to the choir, the choir pays them to do it!

[Jubilant]

My objective was just "food for thought".

 

How is it "food for thought" if thinking about that is a HUGE reason that many of us reject the Christian deity?

[Ramen666]

My objective was just "food for thought".

 

How is it "food for thought" if thinking about that is a HUGE reason that many of us reject the Christian deity?

 

 

 

I agree many of left Christianity because this, I thought of this and this is what bothered me in the first place. This is a major issue Pug and the seeds are planted that you are thinking of this just as we did....which this is a major move for you. There has to be more than just thinking this. These kind of thoughts are forbidden in Christianity and even questioning. However you have added one step until you become one of us. "Questioning" and "Doubt". You don't want to leave Christianity, I understand it but you feel you cannot live without it. Keep digging deeper into Christianity and all will be revealed in due time. For starters www.evilbible.com this is the website that turned everything upside down for me. My "loving" God turned into a murdering lunatic. Read wha the website has to say about the Bible. But read it with an open mind and objective look at it.

 

You say that stats how many really are going to the eternal pressue cooker because they chose the wrong religion? Is that absurd to believe in that....how could a "loving" and "all knowing" God do that to little old ladies who thought they had the "True Religion but didn't.

[Ouroboros]

We're sayin' the same thing aren't we??

YUP!!! Totally.

 

I agree that symbolism and mythology can give a person an experience, or religious experience whatever, but it is a personal experience and it is most likely a reaction to same and different parts than another person would react to.

 

I hear a story, and I feel something, maybe because how the little mouse got hurt and struggled etc etc.

 

You hear the same story, and you're moved how the cat show compassion to the little mouse and help him, etc, etc...

 

Both get an experience, but different ones, from the same story. So the story can in it's essence be true, but not be a "true" story (like history, or factual, or naturally possible), but the feeling is the true thing and it will never be the same between us all. So we can't have the same religion, because it is person however we do it. Even when it come to Christians, every Christian have their own version, no one have the exact same interpretations or knowledge or understanding of what their religion teaches, and it makes it even worse when all preaches different from their book too. I'd say the Bible have too much of fantasy and fairytale in it to be ultimately useful, a shorter, more condense and more morally appropriate version (Jefferson Bible maybe?) could probably help more people, and confuse less.

[Jubilant]

I hear a story, and I feel something, maybe because how the little mouse got hurt and struggled etc etc.

 

Yeah, when I hear the Archbishop Bundamentalist story it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[Mythra]

Which is the true religion? This is such an easy question.

 

The true religion is the one that wasn't the result of mere human imagination and wishful thinking. Simple answer.

 

Just identify that one, and you have it.

 

Oh, wait a minute - I think Hansolo nailed it early on in this thread.

[Mythra]

I think the more a religion promises hope and rewards and meaning and purpose and fulfillment and "happily ever afters", the more likely it's a human fabrication.

 

Real life is never quite as rosy.

[Ouroboros]

You got quite a good point there Mythra.

 

Religion (as an institution) mostly is a fabrication to "heal" or rather patch the sorrows and depression that live gives you. Life is hard and a struggle, and anything that can help us through the day we'll take, instead of learning to cope with the pain and fight it out. Life is partly how to become tougher to handle life. But religion is just the sugarpill that makes you feel better, while you're bleeding to death. Heck, learn how to stop the bleeding and dull the pain, but don't let religion suck the life out of you.

[YDOAPS]

How many of those 10,000 religions are based upon the Judeo-Christian God?

I think the numbers are off. there are 10,000 sects of Christianity alone. There are more like 34,000 practicing religions(not counting sects of the same religion). That doesn't even count the ones that have died or the ones that have yet to come about. It also doesn't count cults.

[pug]

...how can a literal hell where those who "don't believe the TRUE religion" are tortured for eternity be reconciled with a God of LOVE?

IMO, as an earlier post from expagan elaborated, any one would have been sent to hell long ago for stealing a sweet at 5! Why then was he let off to live until 55? He was let off by a loving God. But how long shall this last? A number of suffering to test his repentance abilities? How many tests? Jobless for 3 months? Or 3 years?

 

How much proof from a God of love does one need? When will it end? There's a limit, even to a God of love, i reckon. So presumably, He throws in a Hell threat. Repent or be tortured for eternity. Maybe?

 

If knowing whether you - yourself - are involved in the TRUE religion isn't "that important" - then how can you be sure you won't fry in hell?

Hell is not exclusive to Christianity. Chinese religions feature it heavily too. There is a certain month when all the hungry ghosts are released and the king of hades rule the earth (for that month). Believers have to appease him and his army of ghosts with offerings - usually incense, burning of hell money, "entertainment" (which comprise street parties and public staging of Chinese opera), etc.

 

In the Buddhist world of re-incarnation and such, the hell world is also believed to exist. You could die and come back as a slug for example (even being re-incarnated into a retaerd human is much better).

 

I believe: it is more than just works, it is God's grace, that will lift me to Heaven. So i cannot be assured it's advanced booking. If it's Hell, then so be it.

[JGJ@ReligionisBullshit]

You got quite a good point there Mythra.

 

Religion (as an institution) mostly is a fabrication to "heal" or rather patch the sorrows and depression that live gives you. Life is hard and a struggle, and anything that can help us through the day we'll take, instead of learning to cope with the pain and fight it out. Life is partly how to become tougher to handle life. But religion is just the sugarpill that makes you feel better, while you're bleeding to death. Heck, learn how to stop the bleeding and dull the pain, but don't let religion suck the life out of you.

 

Hmmm, religion, the placebo pill for the diseases of living.

[Open_Minded]

...how can a literal hell where those who "don't believe the TRUE religion" are tortured for eternity be reconciled with a God of LOVE?

IMO, as an earlier post from expagan elaborated, any one would have been sent to hell long ago for stealing a sweet at 5! Why then was he let off to live until 55? He was let off by a loving God. But how long shall this last? A number of suffering to test his repentance abilities? How many tests? Jobless for 3 months? Or 3 years?

 

How much proof from a God of love does one need? When will it end? There's a limit, even to a God of love, i reckon. So presumably, He throws in a Hell threat. Repent or be tortured for eternity. Maybe?

Reckon again, Pug:

 

Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth.

It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things

.

Love never ends

.

So again, "How can a literal hell where those who 'don't believe the TRUE religion' are tortured for eternity be reconciled with a God of LOVE?"

 

 

If knowing whether you - yourself - are involved in the TRUE religion isn't "that important" - then how can you be sure you won't fry in hell?

Hell is not exclusive to Christianity.

True enough, you may want to look at the following thread. We discussed this several months ago: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?s=&a...st&p=189415

 

I believe: it is more than just works, it is God's grace, that will lift me to Heaven. So i cannot be assured it's advanced booking. If it's Hell, then so be it.

You must like to gamble, Pug. Because people from the other world religions all have their reasons for believing that they will end up in heaven while you fry in their hell. And yet... you still cling to your belief that somehow you'll beat the odds and end up in heaven.

 

What's really sad, is that you believe you'll find peace in heaven as the majority of the human population is being tortured in hell. Is that what it means when the Bible speaks of the "peace of God, which surpasses all understanding"?

 

Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. Let your gentleness be known to everyone. The Lord is near. Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus

. Finally, beloved, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is pleasing, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence and if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. Keep on doing the things that you have learned and received and heard and seen in me,

and the God of peace will be with you

.

 

How can there be any peace, any honor or justice or purity or excellence in the face of such horrid violence as the greatest majority of the human population which has ever lived, or ever will live, being tortured alive in a place you (and many others) call hell?

 

How does the doctrine (dogma) of eternal torture even come close to understanding God as a "God of Peace" or a "God of Love"?

 

And finally - if you believe, "it is God's grace" that will "save" you, then why won't the same "grace" save me, all the apostates on this board, and every other human being who has ever lived (or who will ever live)?