Ouroboros Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 This would be a cool Japanese movie. AAAAYAAAAAHHHH!!!! Christians! They are eating the world! Of course with the regular mega sized xian, 15 stories high, mutation caused by a radiation accident during a bright light incident on the road to Damascus. And shooting flashes and ... Yeah, this could be something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Euthyphro Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 This would be a cool Japanese movie. AAAAYAAAAAHHHH!!!! Christians! They are eating the world! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are you familiar with what xian missionaries do over seas? Did you know that when they "help" people that all they are really doing is getting people to prostitute thier mind/spirit for food and medicine. Did you know that people get killed over this? Families sometimes torn apart or domestic violence over a family member being converted? Xians being killed because of thier meddling? Do think religion doesn't contribute to the current world problems of today? Wars? If no one believed in the God inspired books of the abrahamic religions there would be a lot more tolerance in this world than there is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Are you familiar with what xian missionaries do over seas? Did you know that when they "help" people that all they are really doing is getting people to prostitute thier mind/spirit for food and medicine. Did you know that people get killed over this? Families sometimes torn apart or domestic violence over a family member being converted? Xians being killed because of thier meddling? Do think religion doesn't contribute to the current world problems of today? Wars? If no one believed in the God inspired books of the abrahamic religions there would be a lot more tolerance in this world than there is now. The religion itself isn't really the problem. Xianity and Islam have one thing that causes all this to happen; they're commanded to spread the disease. Jew doesn't cause war (except for OT stories that probably are false anyhow), because they really don't proselytize, and it takes an awful long time to become one. While Xians and Muslims get brownie points in heaven if they convert someone. So they’re out working their pyramid scheme, and that’s what causes all this conflicts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Euthyphro Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Yea I should have said islam and xianity specificaly. But scripture gives them authority. Doesn't matter if they twist scripture just a tad. That book is Gods word and if people arent smart enough to question they will follow any psycho waving Gods word around. The idea of a God inspired book is a very dangerous idea. The bible is too contradictory and anyone can pull hate out of that book as far as I can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Euthyphro Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 If I'm a freethinker, then aren't I free to my opinion that it looked like a gang-up on TAP? I still have the same opinion I had, you may not agree with it, but it's why it's MY opinion. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Its part of the human condition to change minds. Otherwise you never would have said anything to thomas to begin with. Nor I you. Deconverting is not sinnister so long as you are not preaching. Discussion and questioning are the meat and taters of free thought. Theres no gettin around that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totallyatpeace Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 I still have the same opinion I had, you may not agree with it, but it's why it's MY opinion. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi, Zoe. It's funny.. but your quote above is exactly how I feel about my faith. People can argue it all day long and point out what they consider to be errors, etc.......but it's still a matter of opinion and perception. Tap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokmer Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Just to offer a bit of clarification on terms, TAP is many things (and many of them very cool), but "liberal Christian" isn't among them. "Liberal" refers to a particular school of theological thought, which is generally panentheistic in nature, denies the trinity, self-consciously views science as taking precedence over scripture (being a less culture-bound revelation of God), subscribes to a Historial Jesus construct, and embraces German School hermeneutics and higher criticism. If you move out of the academic world and into the congregations, Liberal Christianity is pretty much a "whatever floats your boat and has the word 'Jesus' in it" type of faith - doctrinally noncommittal, new agey in flavor, and generally Christian only in name (by any meaningful definition of the term). Now, her outlook on a cultural level might be liberal (and delightfully so), but that alone isn't enough to make her "a liberal." Rather, if you MUST assign a label, she seems to me to espouse a mix of neo-orthodox and liberal evangelical (which implies a relaxed attitude towards people, but a stricter adherence to historic doctrine and divine inspiration of the Bible than any of the "liberal" schools). Now, I could be TOTALLY out to lunch here, in which case I hope that TAP will duly smack me down. Speaking of which, TAP, my apologies for talking about you like you're not in the room. Some of my heathen bretheren who came out of fundy and near-fundy churches forget that there is a broad theological and cultural diversity even within the doctrinally conservative Christian community. -Lokmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totallyatpeace Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Just to offer a bit of clarification on terms, TAP is many things (and many of them very cool), but "liberal Christian" isn't among them. "Liberal" refers to a particular school of theological thought, which is generally panentheistic in nature, denies the trinity, self-consciously views science as taking precedence over scripture (being a less culture-bound revelation of God), subscribes to a Historial Jesus construct, and embraces German School hermeneutics and higher criticism. If you move out of the academic world and into the congregations, Liberal Christianity is pretty much a "whatever floats your boat and has the word 'Jesus' in it" type of faith - doctrinally noncommittal, new agey in flavor, and generally Christian only in name (by any meaningful definition of the term). Now, her outlook on a cultural level might be liberal (and delightfully so), but that alone isn't enough to make her "a liberal." Rather, if you MUST assign a label, she seems to me to espouse a mix of neo-orthodox and liberal evangelical (which implies a relaxed attitude towards people, but a stricter adherence to historic doctrine and divine inspiration of the Bible than any of the "liberal" schools). Now, I could be TOTALLY out to lunch here, in which case I hope that TAP will duly smack me down. Speaking of which, TAP, my apologies for talking about you like you're not in the room. Some of my heathen bretheren who came out of fundy and near-fundy churches forget that there is a broad theological and cultural diversity even within the doctrinally conservative Christian community. -Lokmer <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dr. Lokmer~ I feel properly diagnosed. You nailed it. Tap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Euthyphro Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Thanks Lokmer and TAP. I make assumptions based on how I was taught. TAP you do not think or act like my family or relatives thats for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 My reason for asking thomas if he was trying to deconvert tap...was because it just seemed like he couldn't be comfortable unless everyone else was deconverted also..<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I probably still have a tendency to want everybody else to become like me. I must admit that. But in this tread I wanted to see, if TAP (like many Christians I know) at some point would enter circular reasoning. Sorry TAP for testing you , but I think you are a nice person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Euthyphro Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Well Zoe I guess I see what you are saying. I am kinda touchy about being compared to an evangelical. I am an anti-evangelical. When ever the subject comes up I will try to deconvert xians. Not because I'm unconfortable or insecure in my beliefs but because I am scared of them and thier whole stinking culture. I think I reason to be. RT aint so good to me. I know there are some xers that are decent folks but there are enough out there that aren't. I don't want thier morality. I don't want thier god I have my own. I don't want thier filthy politicians. No I plan on deconverting as many luke warm xians as possible. If the xers have that right then so do I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totallyatpeace Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 No I plan on deconverting as many luke warm xians as possible. If they are lukewarm....you will most likely succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 If they are lukewarm....you will most likely succeed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hate to disagree, TAP, but even lukewarm Christians are tenacious. My parents, for example, never speak of God or Jesus. They occasionally attend church, mostly for society. But give up their identity as Christians? No way! My dad, in particular, is horrified by atheism. Some Christians are too lukewarm or skeptical to embrace the faith fully, but they're too scared to let it go. Kinda like a bad marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totallyatpeace Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Hate to disagree, TAP, but even lukewarm Christians are tenacious. My parents, for example, never speak of God or Jesus. They occasionally attend church, mostly for society. But give up their identity as Christians? No way! My dad, in particular, is horrified by atheism. Some Christians are too lukewarm or skeptical to embrace the faith fully, but they're too scared to let it go. Kinda like a bad marriage. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What??!! We disagree??!! I hear what you are saying, Ro-Bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokmer Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Hate to disagree, TAP, but even lukewarm Christians are tenacious. My parents, for example, never speak of God or Jesus. They occasionally attend church, mostly for society. But give up their identity as Christians? No way! My dad, in particular, is horrified by atheism. I suppose it really depends on where you go with lukewarm. Lukewarm in practice does not always imply lukewarm in faith. Myself, for example, I was stone COLD in practice - I would not go to church out of conscience. When I tried to go back (after a couple years of working on Sundays) I saw what was going on there as contrary to what I perceived as the spirit of Christianity (and, indeed, of goodness). But then, my private devotion was unutterably intense and valuable to me. Up until a week before I deconverted, I probably would have shot anyone around me for suggesting such a thing. In fact, I did just about that at one point. Someone (a devout Christian) told me "Don't ask these questions, don't go there." And I said "If God is the maker of reality, the truth will lead back to him. What are you so afraid of?" I've since discovered what he was afraid of, and I find it more than a little disconcerting that he could know that his doctrine is bullshit, but hold on to it anyway, out of fear. Some Christians are too lukewarm or skeptical to embrace the faith fully, but they're too scared to let it go. Kinda like a bad marriage. The terms for such people is "believers in exile." And it's not *just* out of fear that they don't let it go. For some it is a matter of honor - they have given their loyalty to God and pledged themselves to a particular path. When that's the case, they have to know beyond the shadow of a doubt that the path they've pledged themselves to is not of God before they can morally step off of it and find a new trail. That's not a matter of fear, but one of honor. There is a sizable difference between looking at the church and saying "There's something wrong here" and looking at God and knowing that what you called God was just an idolization of men, and for each person that moment comes differently or not at all. We all must play the hand we're dealt - some paths are similar, but none are the same. We can only hope that those on paths which intersect ours are following out of integrity instead of out of fear. -Lokmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Lokmer, that was an excellent observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 I suppose it really depends on where you go with lukewarm. Lukewarm in practice does not always imply lukewarm in faith. Myself, for example, I was stone COLD in practice - I would not go to church out of conscience. When I tried to go back (after a couple years of working on Sundays) I saw what was going on there as contrary to what I perceived as the spirit of Christianity (and, indeed, of goodness). But then, my private devotion was unutterably intense and valuable to me. Up until a week before I deconverted, I probably would have shot anyone around me for suggesting such a thing. Doesn't the Bible say in Revelations, "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth", so the Bible acknowledges that we can be cold, and it's ok. We can't be in between. So a cold Christian or Atheist is ok then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Euthyphro Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 If they are lukewarm....you will most likely succeed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Because they are easy and they are the majority. There are plenty of people my age that don't like everything about xian culture. They just don't say anything. We can kinda sense who we are. Also when talking to fundies I ask them where in scripture does it say that people are supposed to enforce biblical laws on nonbelievers. The kindom of god is in the heart and not in the laws of men as far as I can see. I tell them that they are taking away peoples right to choose god or not and xianity has no place in politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Because they are easy and they are the majority. There are plenty of people my age that don't like everything about xian culture. They just don't say anything. We can kinda sense who we are. Also when talking to fundies I ask them where in scripture does it say that people are supposed to enforce biblical laws on nonbelievers. The kindom of god is in the heart and not in the laws of men as far as I can see. I tell them that they are taking away peoples right to choose god or not and xianity has no place in politics. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is were you should post more often Euthyphro. here And especially here. I think you need it. But you already know what I think. Love ya man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinfmct87 Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 Even if you were trying to "deconvert" its not my business to browbeat you for that simple fact...it's just I really like TAP and I get a little defensive if I feel like people are pouncing on her. She is one of the very few really cool christians we have here...her company is far preferable to the psychofundie shit we usually get. Her existence on this board helps me remember not all christians are assholes. As for the tendency to want others to be like you, I went through that, especially with my family. I just wanted us all to be "Free." A lot of fundies unfortunately are "lifers" and other more tolerant christians are generally pretty happy and not living fear-filled lives anyway. So just be glad YOU are out. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What Zoe said. Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totallyatpeace Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 Her existence on this board helps me remember not all christians are assholes. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> All of you have the same effect on me. A majority of Christians would feel I am on dangerous ground by being actively involved on this site. I disagree. I think it's good to spend time with people who have a different POV than your own. It brings greater understanding and helps to either affirm what you believe or gives you reason to make change. By being here life has become richer in many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vanesa Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 (Learned Blind) Hehe, lukewarm Xtians are good game for me. A real challenge is the extreme right, the dedicated little angels who want to ban gay marriage and rip apart transgendered people. Most Xtians are indeed assholes, weak and cowardly assholes to boot. I had fun with Berserk or whatever his name was on one of the other posts, he was probably a mid level Xtian or something. Xtians are mean people anyway; actually, all religious people are mean!!!!! SO, TAP, that is what I think of your religion. Now you see why we ex-xtians are so obnoxious around your kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 All of you have the same effect on me. A majority of Christians would feel I am on dangerous ground by being actively involved on this site. I disagree. I think it's good to spend time with people who have a different POV than your own. It brings greater understanding and helps to either affirm what you believe or gives you reason to make change. By being here life has become richer in many ways. That is what's called tolerance. If you give tolerance, you get tolerance. And it goes for both camps. Religion is like medicine, it can help you in correct doses, but taken in too large amounts, it can be deadly. TAP, you're the example of someone taking it, in prescribed amounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caretaker Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 Hate to disagree, TAP, but even lukewarm Christians are tenacious. My parents, for example, never speak of God or Jesus. They occasionally attend church, mostly for society. But give up their identity as Christians? No way! My dad, in particular, is horrified by atheism. Some Christians are too lukewarm or skeptical to embrace the faith fully, but they're too scared to let it go. Kinda like a bad marriage. That is kinda similar to my roommate. He is Christian just for the sake of the identity of being Christian. His behavioral patterns suggest otherwise, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggs Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 I personally dont base a person's Christianity for memorizing the Bible, cause for one, the Bible wasnt even completed in the time of the apostles. So if the basis for being a Christian or a Believer is reading the Bible. Then the apostles wouldnt be Christians. But they were, how? I personally consider 3 things to make them believers. 1 they realize that they are sinners. 2 they realize that God is willing to forgive them if they Repent. 3 they realize that God doesnt want legalism but obedience from the heart. (To love one another). -toughest of all teachings IMO. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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