Moses's Glowing Face

[Guest end3]

There is one example, being subjected to a Higher energy, excited the electrons, he glowed. Same principle is used in atomic absorption spectroscopy, gas chromotagraphy, and inductively coupled plasma. And candles, light, God, Jesus....the sun.

[Deva]

There is one example, being subjected to a Higher energy, excited the electrons, he glowed. Same principle is used in atomic absorption spectroscopy, gas chromotagraphy, and inductively coupled plasma. And candles, light, God, Jesus....the sun.

 

End3- Don't you really think its realy more probable that the person writing the account just embellished a story? Have you ever heard of symbolism?

[Guest end3]

No, I think they did not understand the technology as we do now. My dad is a phD anaytical chemist who is one of you. He knows the tech, be fails to see the connection. It is just one thing I see as confirmation

[Deva]

No, I think they did not understand the technology as we do now. My dad is a phD anaytical chemist who is one of you. He knows the tech, be fails to see the connection. It is just one thing I see as confirmation

 

 

OK, so you don't think the glow on Moses' face was a halo or symbolism.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_(religious_iconography)

 

Symbolism: a: Artistic imitation or invention that is a method of revealing or suggesting immaterial, ideal, or otherwise intangible truth or states b: the use of conventional or traditional signs in the representation of divine beings and spirits - Webster's Dictionary

 

Do you mind saying what other confirmation you have other than your explanation in your first post?

 

I am just really curious now. Is it just this one event or do you think all supernatural events in the Bible can be explained by science? Do you think they all literally happened and were just misunderstood by people of that time because they didn't have the technology?

[Guest end3]

I looked up the word for what Moses's face was doing and I think it said the word meant "emmited light", so it is like a florescent bulb, you add electricity to the gas inside the tube, it excites the electrons to the next shell level, and when they fall back down to the original shell level, the gas gives off or emmits light. No, that is my only understanding of this particular thing. Do I need another? And, no, I can't explain all the supernateral events by science. It says we only see in parts now.....that one He allowed me to understand. I liken it to the "glow" on my grandmother's face when we came to visit as children.

[Guest end3]

Maybe I have misunderstood your question, so are you asking for another example, or more proof on the first( I don't have more on the first) I am not as smart as my ole dad.

[Ouroboros]

There is one example, being subjected to a Higher energy, excited the electrons, he glowed. Same principle is used in atomic absorption spectroscopy, gas chromotagraphy, and inductively coupled plasma. And candles, light, God, Jesus....the sun.

Hmm... like Mithra? He was the son of God, and he was the Sun, and he was depicted with a halo around his head. (Zoroastrianism if you wonder. A religion many, many years before Jesus... and maybe even Moses)

[Deva]

End3 I didn't mean to put you on the spot with all my questions. I was just asking for more clarity as to what you meant. I am not a scientist myself, so I really can't comment on the accuracy of your explanation in your first post. I had just not heard anything like it before.

 

I am glad that you don't think that all supernatural events in the Bible can be explained by science.

 

All we have is an ancient text that says that Moses' face glowed. I have no idea if the event actually happened or not. People see other people "glowing". This has happened with saints all down through history. I just personally never felt the need to find a scientific explanation for this. There are different states of consciousness, people see visions all the time. But I think it was most likely that the writer was using symbolism. The events on Mt. Sinai were very important to people and it was embellished years later when the account was written. That is my explanation for it.

[Guest end3]

What about how most all things work in nature. Just an observation of mine, the whole is made of many individuals, like the church, our bodies are added together to make His as well as our physical bodies are made of many parts, many cells. Plant leaves help feed the tree, our speech is many small parts put together to make a sentence....many raindrops to get enough to drink, it says the Spirit is like water in John or Mark I think. When it comes from God (rain), it is pure, as it flows downhill it picks up stuff, contaminants, as it makes its way to the ocean (sea. symbolism for worldly people), where it is unfit to drink, as are the majority of the world, worldly people. We are born, pure like babies, we grow and pick up contaminants, and that is why we have to be "reborn" or we will end up in the "dead sea" so to speak, a perpetual flow downhill, instead of learning how to grow pure again like where we came from, ascending. The majority of todays preachers go into the tabernacle, see the cross(altar), wash in the basin(lavar, baptism), but fail to take the people any farther. Instead of going into the Tent where God is, as did Moses, they turn around and stand at the cross for the rest of their lives preaching that lesson(s). Makes me tired.

 

HS, I don't know the story of Mithra

[Ouroboros]

Mithra was one of the "God's" in Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrianism is known to have existed 500 BCE (BC), but some things point to that it existed a very long time before that. It is very likely Zoroastrianism influenced Judaism a lot. The name Satan and the idea was probably borrow from it, and the idea of Angels (messengers) too. Zoroastrians believe there is only One God, Ahura Mazda.

 

Mithra is thought to mean "covenant" or "friend", and is a divine being somehow part of the belief (I guess it's something like the trinity in Christianity). And Mithra is the son of Ahura Mazda like Adam, created by Ahura Mazda to be the guardian of light. Here's an extract form Wiki that is better than I can describe it:

As the protector of truth and the enemy of error, Mithra occupied an intermediate position in the Zoroastrian pantheon as the greatest of the yazatas, the beings created by Ahuramazda to aid in the destruction of evil and the administration of the world. He was thus a divinity of the realms of air and light, and, by transfer to the moral realm, the manifestation of truth and loyalty. As the enemy of darkness and evil spirits, he protected souls, accompanying them to paradise, and was thus a redeemer. Because light is accompanied by heat, he was the promoter of vegetation and increase; he rewarded the good with prosperity and annihilated the bad.

 

Basically Mithra is the son of God and the savior who brought a new covenant for mankind to fight and destroy evil.

 

Another interesting detail is that the religion have fire as the cleansing method. Kind of like Hell. But I think they thought of the cleansing fire for the time when you're still alive, not as a punishment after your dead. I think I read once they had or used the fire in some cleansing ritual, from sins.

 

The oldest documenst are from 5-600 Before Jesus. How do we explain the halo around Mithra's/Jesus' head? The Mithra statues and pictures look very similar to the later Jesus pictures with the glowing halo and the outreached arms. So maybe Jesus came as Mithra first for the Persians, and then came back again to the Jews?

[Guest end3]

My dad has a house, which has gold faucets, monogrammed towels, plush carpeting, his house staring straight at the Rocky Mountain National Park through big glass windows. He has his "stuff". Not bad really. He has a poster in his guest bath that talks about an American indian chief named Seattle. It tells the words of Seattle, who talks of white men coming and abusing the people and land and he doesn't understand why God allows this. He talks about a their God, which I think if I am reading Seattle right, is the same God I am talking about. My dad is sooo smart, and professes about his unbelief, that he can't see God, but sees the "environmental icon" people have made of Seattle. I am trying to know Jesus, Seattle, I believe the same God. I don't know if Ahuru Mazda is that same god. I have additionally never contemplated the halo thing about Jesus either. I have about the rainbow in Heaven. Just a quick note...it says there is a rainbow above the throne of God, and the closest color to God would be purple, violet, if it is oriented the same way we see it, visible light, purple is the higher frequency of visible light. Six visible colors, more or less, the seventh white, like Christ, seven candles on the menorah....it goes on and on. Maybe HS, there was a book like the Bible that explained it as well about Ahura Mazda, I am not smart enough to tell you.

[Ouroboros]

The scriptures are called Avesta, and Black Mask and/or Project Gutenburg probably got all of them (translated).

 

When it comes to symbolism, you can see symbols representing almost anything. I see a tree with X-mas lights on it, and it looks like a troll, but do I think it's a sign from the Mountain King that he's about to steal my kids, or do I realized that the human mind makes patters to fit what it see, for the purpose to recognize danger like a lion coming at them while they're hunting for food (you know in the old days, that was a pretty good skill - to see danger before it hit you - that made humans survive and the non-pattern-seeing humans to die off.)

 

My son told me a story yesterday. Last year in his high school one day, totally randomly, a large majority of the students wore a white shirt. It wasn't planned, and it wasn't any event. The school thought they were in some group or cult and took them all in for questioning, but no one understood what was happening. The truth was that it was a fluke. It just happened. Nothing magical, and nothing mysterious, things like this are bound to happen sometime, somewhere. But from this, the school though the white shirts symbolized some gang membership and wanted to sort it out. Symbols can be dangerous unless we know that this is how the mind works.

[Guest end3]

I don't know what to tell you other than my mind was connecting things I see in the physical to themes that I see in the Bible, sure a function of how I am made. I have some guys that I study with, and they say alot of places where it is translated eternity is really translated "age" or "age lasting". They think all men will be brought to Jesus, just in different harvests, like the Jewish festival days. The less stubborn first, the most stubborn last. You are right though, too much of a good thing, is not good (symbolism).

[Guest end3]

That's it? One example and you guys are stumped? What about throwing me to the den. Sincerely, I enjoyed the conversation, and I will be back.

[Dhampir]

Really? R-R.... Really? Electron excitement? That's your explanation? Well, then it's all completely mundane isn't it? Nothing supernatural about it at all, if it happened that is. No need to inject god in there anywhere is there?

[mwc]

I looked up the word for what Moses's face was doing and I think it said the word meant "emmited light",

The words transliterates to "qaran" and it means "to shine" as in "to send out rays." However, it is translated in Psalms as having horns. That's why the very famous Moses statue has horns on his head. Some took the whole thing to mean that Moses came down the mountain with horns, shocking the people of course, and so he wore a veil to cover them when he addressed the crowd. Similar words like "qeren" also relate mainly to horns. How does that fit into your theory?

 

However, given that Moses never existed and the point of the tale works better with the "light" aspect I suspect the author is going for the whole "glowing" effect (it also works better with the translation I just looked at as well but who knows what the original story might have said?). The thing about that is how did Moses keep the light from coming through the eye holes (and around the edges) in his veil? I imagine that would spook a lot of people considering just his face (not his head) was glowing. At least the glowing face made easy work for old Moses to write the Torah day or night whenever the mood hit him and night time trips to the bathroom must have been a breeze (it really put a crimp in his peeping activities though ).

 

mwc

[mwc]

That's it? One example and you guys are stumped? What about throwing me to the den. Sincerely, I enjoyed the conversation, and I will be back.

One example of what?

 

Were we supposed to take that electron excitement thing seriously? Are you saying that Moses was a naturally occurring human florescent light bulb? Based on what? That a text said he put out rays and that you compare it later to your grandma? So your grandma is also electrically charged and fluoresces?

 

Ra was once in a human form but grew old. People stopped listening to him. Long story short he went up into his sun ship. See that glowing thing? That's Ra. He shining down at you. Neat story. Did it change your life? It mentions a form of glowing and everything. People also believe that the ancient Egyptians had a form of light bulb (I don't buy into it myself) based on images in the temples. It does look like a bulb with a filament if you use your imagination but that doesn't mean that it is.

 

mwc

[Deva]

That's it? One example and you guys are stumped? What about throwing me to the den. Sincerely, I enjoyed the conversation, and I will be back.

 

We are hardly stumped. Maybe puzzled by some of your posts. As Dhampir has pointed out, how does God figure in this? Why are you giving us a scientific explanation? As to how scientific it really is, I have my doubts. As we already pointed out, there are much better and simpler explanations for this "glowing" phenomenon.

[Deva]

He has a poster in his guest bath that talks about an American indian chief named Seattle. It tells the words of Seattle, who talks of white men coming and abusing the people and land and he doesn't understand why God allows this. He talks about a their God, which I think if I am reading Seattle right, is the same God I am talking about. My dad is sooo smart, and professes about his unbelief, that he can't see God, but sees the "environmental icon" people have made of Seattle. I am trying to know Jesus, Seattle, I believe the same God.

 

I don't claim to know much about the religion professed by Chief Seattle, but I really doubt it was the same God as Bible God. Your God is Jesus, right? In fact, I think if I were a Native American I would be insulted by this statement.

[Guest Marty]

In fact, I think if I were a Native American I would be insulted by this statement.

 

I remember a story that went something like this (this is terribly paraphrased):

 

xtain: Do you know jesus?

 

Native American: No, who is jesus?

 

xtain: he is the son of god who came to save you of sin.

 

NA: what is sin?

 

xtian: here, you can learn all about god and jesus and sin in this book. (hands a bible over)

 

NA: Your god is found in this book? If I leave this book outside, the rain and sun and wind will tear this book apart, and your god will disappear. My god IS the rain and the wind and the sun.

[Ouroboros]

That's it? One example and you guys are stumped? What about throwing me to the den. Sincerely, I enjoyed the conversation, and I will be back.

 

We are hardly stumped. Maybe puzzled by some of your posts. As Dhampir has pointed out, how does God figure in this? Why are you giving us a scientific explanation? As to how scientific it really is, I have my doubts. As we already pointed out, there are much better and simpler explanations for this "glowing" phenomenon.

That's right. Moses as a light bulb with horn doesn't stump me, I'm just confused about End3's posts...

 

End3, so what? If Moses did exist, and it was a natural phenomenon, what does it mean to you? Wouldn't that mean that God didn't do anything, and it was just something that happened to a normal human being, and it wasn't any supernatural. So in essence, you're feeding us with what we need to argue against Christianity, so why should we be stumped?

[Guest end3]

I taunted in order to get more responses, I apologize. Lighten up. I have been open to listening to your god theories. HS told me about Mazda last night, kindof interesting. The point is the even the guy, if I am not mistaken, that started this forum was trying to "comfort" people by giving them a place to rant, vent, whatever. That for me is a Jesus concept, become like them in order to save them, that makes my faith stronger....I am just doing what my belief system says I am to do. Tell them, and if they don't want to listen, yes, I will dust off my feet and leave. I am just doing what my God asks me to do, as well is it is in my nature to argue. I do not claim to know much, but your website asks for comments. I told you mine.

 

Seattle was insulted way before I said anything. If the native americans had no sin, they still had a creator, a god, I just think he might be the same as mine. Maybe Seattle will tell me in Heaven that I got it wrong.

 

The horns are like "rays", outcroppings of a source, projections, for protection, annoucement. The suns rays would be like horns. Like a shofar, (animal horn) announces or brings something from God. A Christian can be a horn of God. I believe there can be good and bad horns. Animals have horns for protection, "annoucement" if you will. More confirmation, more faith for me. Christianity says it works on faith, what does it do for me, proof of what it says makes my faith stronger.

 

Your own website asks for posts to compare science vs. religion. How can you disqualify me for participating. Put out your much simpler an easier explanations for how Moses glowed, it might help someone else understand.

 

Yes, those methods of analysis are very real, and used everyday to analyzed things to help people live in this world.

 

I apologize for throwing a spear. I really do enjoy the conversation.

[Dhampir]

Seattle was insulted way before I said anything. If the native americans had no sin, they still had a creator, a god, I just think he might be the same as mine. Maybe Seattle will tell me in Heaven that I got it wrong.

Or maybe when (if) you meet up, neither of you will be in heaven. Wokan Tonka (sp?) seems not to advocate any sort of afterlife.

 

At any rate, how do you answer the fact that any mundane (read: scientific) explanation for how anything happens in the bible neatly removes god--any god, from a place of necessity for its cause?

[Deva]

I am just doing what my belief system says I am to do. Tell them, and if they don't want to listen, yes, I will dust off my feet and leave. I am just doing what my God asks me to do, as well is it is in my nature to argue. I do not claim to know much, but your website asks for comments. I told you mine.

 

 

end3 - You act like some kind of robot "I am just doing what my belief system says I am to do." With this kind of a closed minded attitude, I don't know how discussion is possible. No, the religion of the Native Americans was not the same as yours, hence their God was not the same. But you honestly don't want to look at that, do you?

 

I ask the Moderators to put this in the Lion's Den.

[Guest end3]

DL,

I don't feel as I am a robot, as the Holy Spirit has given me a unique part to play in His role.

 

Dham,

I believe He was the creator, and His things work as to how He created them, the analyses techniques are real, as I have two of the three in my employment. Why would the properties change. Why wouldn't these properties agree with His text. I said I don't know about all of them, just have my explanation about that one.

 

DL,

I am trying as hard as I can to listen, please put some ideas for discussion out there and I will think until I am blue. You are right, I don't all of where ya'll are coming from, but a little. Got my share of stories.