Woman Claims Ex-cs Were Never Believers To Begin With

[PiracyOfTheHead]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsQwrbUXQmk...feature=related

 

First off, this IS a question I have to ponder if I am going to be honest with my deconversion, did I ever believe?? Yes....I first believed without question as "signs" and "confirmations" began to spring up, prodding me along the path. Thinking back I realize the first couple years were the only happy years in the faith, after that it was a sinking ship, leaking more and more from numerous and increasingly larger holes. My only regret is that I deceived myself and allowed myself to be deceived , selling my soul to pretend it was saved. I may learn why I did this as my deconversion continues. If I can stay out of the psych ward long enough.

 

 

When did I hit the initial phase of having to patch holes in my sinking faith?? Almost from the start, maybe 2 1/2 years into my faith, I remember reading some prety good rebuttals to some apologetics on the net, I then began to feverishly search for "patches". I remember even going to www.bible.ca I AM SURE some or most of you know this place. I found the more I doubted and questioned, the more fanatic I had to become to keep up the charade.

 

 

So this is an honest question, was I deceived by some evil beings and beliefs, am I a Judas? The bible does talk about truly believing and falling away, it says that this can happen and that you can't come back once you reached a certain point. That you will never be able to find your faith again because God will cause you to believe a lie, and will prevent you himelf, for having blasphemed in this way.

 

I either, truly believed and have truly found the religion is bullshit, or I truly believed and sin and doubt have damned my soul forever, according to the bible, these are the options.

 

But according to this apologist, this tutorial she presented was "gonna be fun", the fun was lost on me, what about you?

 

Please comment on the video and post your beliefs about "Falling away", never believing in the first place or whatever situation you find yourself in, based on this woman's claim that all Ex-Christians' testimonies are "BULL"

 

Thanx

[ShackledNoMore]

The trouble with her argument is that it presupposes that she somehow has magically has True Knowledge of the Ultimate Truth™. In order to have a candidate for a valid argument, she would have to prove that a god exists, prove that that god (or godhead, in this case) is the xian god, and then prove that her particular born again theology and interpretation of the details, is the correct and true interpretation of the Ultimate Truth™, while other xian sects that subscribe to different theology are wrong.

 

Well that's a tall order and she did not even try to lay the groundwork.

 

But it's more fun to make the extremely safe assumption that her presuppositions are NOT a representation of the Ultimate Truth™. Then it's entertaining to look at what would be left: I would be amused to learn that I NEVER believed in Santa Clause. I NEVER believed that Pluto was best classified as a planet. I ALWAYS doubted my senses when they told me that non-relativistic Newtonian physics fully represented the behavior of bodies in motion and bodies acted on by forces when I was too young to fathom otherwise.

[PiracyOfTheHead]

Its even simpler than that, she shoots hereslf in the foot with the statement all ex christians are lucky because they were never true christians in the first place so they can be saved still, because true christians who walked away cant be saved........

 

The only way out of this quagmire is to have God specifically show her the book of life. THere is absolutely no way to know which people are which, based on her reasoning.

 

I guess this is what truly frightens me, and most people leaving the faith unless they have arrived at absolute faith in their unbelief. People like this are what got me into the mess in the first place, everything in my mind says its absolute bullshit and they are full of crap, yet the fear remains...........

[Ouroboros]

The problem with "not true Christian" argument is that when I was Christian, I thought and believed that I was a true Christian. Which means, out there, right now, there could be thousands, or millions, or maybe all Christians, going around believing they are true Christians, just like I did, but all of them, just like me, are not true Christians. If I could be fooled, and everyone here as well, then any Christian can be fooled, and most likely all of them are fooled.

[nightflight]

The problem with "not true Christian" argument is that when I was Christian, I thought and believed that I was a true Christian. Which means, out there, right now, there could be thousands, or millions, or maybe all Christians, going around believing they are true Christians, just like I did, but all of them, just like me, are not true Christians. If I could be fooled, and everyone here as well, then any Christian can be fooled, and most likely all of them are fooled.

 

Whoop! There it is!

 

If what "Yokeup" says is true, then Christians can't really celebrate anyone joining their ranks. Nor can they be assured themselves.

[Brought None]

Why is this woman even doing a preach video... based on the Bible, she is forbidden by scripture to do such. So she's not a real Christian then. lol

 

EDIT:

 

Check out her past vid about how she surrendered her homosexual life style. Try to keep a straight face (pun not intedned) during the vid.

Surrender your homosexuality

 

So now we all know what she REALLY needs in her life... some hot steamy tongue lashing God ordained holy bed rollin earthquakin lesbian sex.

[godlessgrrl]

If what "Yokeup" says is true, then Christians can't really celebrate anyone joining their ranks. Nor can they be assured themselves.

 

Aye, there's the rub.

 

I suspect that this may be the reason why the scramble to figure out who's a TrueChristian™ and who isn't is such a popular one. If eternal damnation is the end result of apostasy or non-belief, I'd want to make damn sure my salvation was assured.

 

What most xians haven't realized yet is that their religion is bullshit, not our claims of having once been part of it and later having left. The religion is bullshit, the Buybull is bullshit, Jeebus probably never existed, the Lard and the Holy Spurt sure as shit don't exist... and the Buybull is conveniently written to cover all kinds of contingencies that might lead to people questioning it. We left? We were never saved, according to the Buybull - or else we'll be punished so badly for leaving we'll wish we never were xians in the first place. Why did we leave? Not because we used our heads and thought our way out of it, no - the Buybull says we left because we preferred darkness over light, evil over good, depravity over holiness. Yadda yadda yadda...

 

I say fuck the Buybull.

 

Truth is, we were as saved as any xian ever was. Which means we were never saved at all, because there's nothing to be saved from, and no Jeebus to save anyone. The same goes for current xians: they aren't really saved, either.

 

And really, what is this bitch doing preaching anyway? Hasn't she read 1 Timothy? Hasn't she read 1 Corinthians? Or is there some reason why that part of her Bible doesn't apply to her? Is she special somehow, and doesn't have to follow the rulebook she thinks applies to us?

 

Sounds like a stoning is in order...

 

EDIT: Heh! Brought None - great minds think alike... looks like we posted similar thoughts at the same time...

[GraphicsGuy]

Jeff and Caroline - aka. "Yokeup Ministries" - are an ignorant, hate-spreading couple. They piss off everybody; Xians, athiests, and anybody in between. I don't know why people keep bothering to argue with them. It's a fight that has been going on for a year now.

[Brought None]

Also, why is she wearing mens clothing, specially pants? She's also rather masculine. Doesn't her Bible say she should be stoned for that?

 

Great minds do think alike gwenmead.

[Ouroboros]

So basically she's not a True Christian, and she's accusing other people of not being True Christians. Typical asshole bigotry.

[Amethyst]

Such people only use the "you never really believed" argument because it prevents them from thinking that they too might deconvert someday.

 

Mental gymnastics for the loss.

[Neon Genesis]

I look at it like this. If Christianity isn't real, then she was never really saved either, and if being truly being saved means being arrogant and rude like her, I take it as a compliment that I was never truly like her, according to her "logic."

[Jedah]

Every time I see a "Exc never were true christians because that babble says so" argument I just want to facepalm so hard it hopefully crushes my skull in such a way that I forget I share the same genetic code with these tards. When will people realize that if a 2000 year old collection of superstitions claims that there can be no Ex-believers, and there are thousands of Ex believers...then it means that the book is lying. Not the Exc's !

[agnosticator]

Also, why is she wearing mens clothing, specially pants? She's also rather masculine. Doesn't her Bible say she should be stoned for that?

 

Great minds do think alike gwenmead.

 

The new guy apologizes for butting in......wouldn't her clothes prove her to be the "man" in her still-lesbian-but-can't-admit-it relationship? Maybe her secret

 

lover in the congregation will be exposed in a scandal.

[agnosticator]

Great posts by the way!

[Deva]

So ignorant I couldn't get past the first minute. What a judgmental, close-minded imbecile. The twangy music that was playing just made it so much worse too.

[Taphophilia]

When I watched that video my gaydar was going off and I wasn't even paying attention to what she was wearing.

[Brought None]

Great posts by the way!

 

Great avatar. Love that Gorillias grin.

[Ouroboros]

Here's another problem of "never true Christian", which is: if I decide to become Christian again, I will most likely feel like I did before I de-converted. Now, does it mean that I will become a false Christian? So how can I know that I'm a "true" Christian if I convert again? Whichever kind of Christian I become, I probably will feel that that's the only and true version, but I could be fooled. So how can I know which kind of Christian is the real kind, and how can I know that I'm true to it when I do? If it's not enough to feel it, believe it, think it, live it, every day, and spend days and nights trying to be the right and true Christian, then how much more dedication is needed? I mean, I literally spent many hours in prayers at times. I was part of a prayer team praying for the meetings which would go on for 3 hours... stretch!... once a week... besides the prayer meetings we had every Monday too... and praying every morning and evening... I mean, how could God let me get so fooled?

[PiracyOfTheHead]

Here's another problem of "never true Christian", which is: if I decide to become Christian again, I will most likely feel like I did before I de-converted. Now, does it mean that I will become a false Christian? So how can I know that I'm a "true" Christian if I convert again? Whichever kind of Christian I become, I probably will feel that that's the only and true version, but I could be fooled. So how can I know which kind of Christian is the real kind, and how can I know that I'm true to it when I do? ...

 

The more I read and look into this, the more i hear from people like that, the more I realize that the Bible is a closed system with built in devices to keep people inside, pretend to kick the bad apples out and try to get the whole world inside its clutches............its got an almost flawless design for that.

 

It allows every type of strain of belief....look at the protestants.

 

You can prove anything with it.

 

You can disprove anything with it.

 

And on the list goes....I really wish most of it had been true, my life wouldnt be a complete flop and i would have eternal salvation...its really sad that its not true, the good parts I mean.

 

I think it would take about as much for me as it would take for you to re-convert...nothing shy of a miracle, PROBABLY TWO

[agnosticator]

Great posts by the way!

 

Great avatar. Love that Gorillias grin.

 

We're related. A distant cousin of mine.

[MathGeek]

I watched part of the video. I've seen enough by those two to annoy me to no end. They are at least kind enough to let you leave mean comments behind.

[Bodhi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsQwrbUXQmk...feature=related

 

First off, this IS a question I have to ponder if I am going to be honest with my deconversion, did I ever believe?? Yes....I first believed without question as "signs" and "confirmations" began to spring up, prodding me along the path. Thinking back I realize the first couple years were the only happy years in the faith, after that it was a sinking ship, leaking more and more from numerous and increasingly larger holes. My only regret is that I deceived myself and allowed myself to be deceived , selling my soul to pretend it was saved. I may learn why I did this as my deconversion continues. If I can stay out of the psych ward long enough.

 

 

When did I hit the initial phase of having to patch holes in my sinking faith?? Almost from the start, maybe 2 1/2 years into my faith, I remember reading some prety good rebuttals to some apologetics on the net, I then began to feverishly search for "patches". I remember even going to www.bible.ca I AM SURE some or most of you know this place. I found the more I doubted and questioned, the more fanatic I had to become to keep up the charade.

 

 

So this is an honest question, was I deceived by some evil beings and beliefs, am I a Judas? The bible does talk about truly believing and falling away, it says that this can happen and that you can't come back once you reached a certain point. That you will never be able to find your faith again because God will cause you to believe a lie, and will prevent you himelf, for having blasphemed in this way.

 

I either, truly believed and have truly found the religion is bullshit, or I truly believed and sin and doubt have damned my soul forever, according to the bible, these are the options.

 

But according to this apologist, this tutorial she presented was "gonna be fun", the fun was lost on me, what about you?

 

Please comment on the video and post your beliefs about "Falling away", never believing in the first place or whatever situation you find yourself in, based on this woman's claim that all Ex-Christians' testimonies are "BULL"

 

Thanx

 

The "fun" was lost on me as well.

 

Don't worry too much about what these rednecks have to say. Remember that she's quoting from the Bible, and you no longer believe in the Bible. Whatever the Bible says is irrelevant. Just don't worry about it!

 

I think you are a sincere person who is sincere in his beliefs. People can change and people can change their minds. People also have the RIGHT to change their minds. When Christians see people leaving Christianity, they have to tell themselves something in order to make themselves feel better about it. When somebody leaves the church, it challenges their faith. Why would anyone leave? So, what they say is that you never "REALLY" believed in the first place, because if you did you would never leave. That's how they explain it to themselves so that their faith is not shaken.

 

If you do believe in a higher power (or whatever you want to call it), know that nothing can stand between you and your higher power. Nothing!

 

But no matter what, PLEASE stop wracking your brain with trying to figure out the illogic of redneck Bible thumpers. And PLEASE stop trying to figure out the scriptures because it's already been proven that the Bible, as a whole, makes no sense. You will only give yourself a headache. Just relax and forget about those people! They're stupid.

[Bodhi]

Why is this woman even doing a preach video... based on the Bible, she is forbidden by scripture to do such. So she's not a real Christian then. lol

 

EDIT:

 

Check out her past vid about how she surrendered her homosexual life style. Try to keep a straight face (pun not intedned) during the vid.

Surrender your homosexuality

 

So now we all know what she REALLY needs in her life... some hot steamy tongue lashing God ordained holy bed rollin earthquakin lesbian sex.

 

If ex-Christians were never REALLY Christians, then maybe this ex-lesbian was never REALLY a lesbian, because if she were REALLY a lesbian she wouldn't be able to deny it!

 

I'm just using her own twisted logic against her. Really, I think she's repressing herself in order to be what other people want her to be.

 

But the most important question is: If you were REALLY a lesbian but turned away from lesbianism, will the Goddess of Lesbianism ever allow you to be a lesbian again???

 

Hmmm...deep thoughts!!!

[mwc]

But the reason the disciples left was because jesus wanted them to eat his bread "flesh" and drink his wine "blood." They were true disciples up to the point they were asked to disobey the Law then they proved themselves to be good Jews and obedient to YHWH. He's the one that asked them to do something illegal. He's the bad one. He betrayed their trust. He betrayed them.

 

It doesn't matter anyway. She pointed out that only the "elect" would be brought to jesus anyhow. So how can all the "fake" ex-c's still have time to be saved? Unless we're "elected" into the system we're out of luck. We apparently were confused about our previous go around so how can I know that this time I'm really "elected" and not just fooling myself again? I'd hate to be a two time non-ex-c for her to call "bull" on. That would be shameful and confusing.

 

mwc