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    •  Many apologists will say that the arguments for God’s existence should be seen as a cumulative case rather than any single argument being a reason for belief on its own. This is understandable as the majority of arguments for God are second hand inference, God of the gaps or incredulity based, so as evidence goes none of it should not be convincing on its own.

      The cumulative case works in both directions, as there are many reasons to disbelieve in a God’s existence, but any single argument may not be convincing on its own. With that in mind, here are a few of the more common reasons for disbelief and the rabbit hole of questions that these reasons lead to:  
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    • The evidence is clear that evil and suffering exist.
       
      The evidence that god exists?  No one really has any.
       
      Moreover, we know that even if a god does exist, evil and suffering obviously do not offend him.  If it did, he'd have put a stop to it by now.  After all, if he is omniscient, then he knows how much evil and suffering there is; and how broken and miserable it makes human existence.  If he really is omnibenevolent, then he wants to prevent his children from brokenness and misery.  If he really is omnipotent, then he has the ability to prevent the evil and suffering that causes brokenness and misery.  And if he really is omnipresent, then he is present every where that evil and suffering exist.
       
      If god is all of these things, and evil and suffering offend him, then why do evil and suffering continue to exist?  Why has he not moved to alleviate his own offense and save us all in the process? The simple fact that evil and suffering continue in this world is, in itself, evidence that god is not offended by it... or maybe god isn't the omni-max he's made out to be... or maybe god simply does not exist. 
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    • Animal suffering is a subject which I have thought of as simply a variation on the problem of suffering.  If God loved every one of His creations, then why would He set up a system where predators need to kill live prey to survive.  It's a system designed around killing, which is hard to reconcile with a loving, good God.
      However, I came across some other implications of animal suffering that expand the subject in several interesting ways.  The first was that if you are an old Earth creationist, so accept evolution, then the creation of every species that we see was guided by the principles of survival of the fittest, with evolutionary pressure being horrendous suffering (predation, disease, starvation, conflict etc).  The tool that God decided to use was untold misery for hundreds of millions of years, before we get to our current world of diverse life.
      The fact that thousands of T-Rex stalked the lands killing to survive, can't be seen as necessary, when they are all extinct long before His chosen people come along.  Hundreds of millions of years of creatures being torn limb from limb, before any of it mattered for our existence.  Why have that time period of suffering without benefit?
       
      I was talking to a vegan, who said God loves all of His creations, and believing that Christians should be vegan because killing His creations was against His will.  This just led to pointing to the horrors of the OT, where God requests burnt sacrifices on a regular basis, saying that the smell was pleasing to Him.  Or to the Israelites attacks on various cities, where they are told to kill all of the inhabitants, including the innocent animals.  King Saul even angered God for not murdering all of the animals, as some were taken as plunder.
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    • Hello,
      I guess our reasons for joining this site are slightly different for each person and yet perhaps desperation might be a common theme. So, with that said, a brief introduction. I have been involved with Christianity for many years. Out of sheer despair, I suppose I ended up finding this site. 
      Here is my experience with Christianity:
      The unhappiest times of my life were when I got myself involved in Christianity. I marvel at those who appear to be at ease with it all. I conclude, there's something wrong with me. 
      Never, have I felt more powerless, worthless, unfree. 
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    • Failed prayer, the idea that there is an invisible being , listening to everyones thoughts is beyond laughable. 
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    • mwc
      An interesting side-note to this is Dionysius started down this road as a means to investigate the end of the world.  The calendar epoch most xians were using at the time said that christ was born in AM 5500 and it was closing in on AM 6000.  What this meant was that christ was born at the eleventh hour and it was coming up on the twelfth.  It also meant that the world was about to flip over to the seventh day.  So the end of the world.  And people were getting wound up about it (like always).        Anyhow, the very over simplified version of all this is as a result one of the outcomes of his calculating more dates for Easter, was he "changed" anno Diocletian (I'm not getting that quite right since it's supposed to be in Latin...but it's the dating system that was used for the year of Diocletian) to anno domini  (actually it was the year of our lord jesus christ but, again, I can't recall the Latin).  I say "changed" because he just used a new term because he didn't want to use one associated with a xian persecutor.  However, the outcome of his work was it basically showed they were only about 500 years into a new era, with ~5500 to go instead of only a few years away from the actual end of the world at 6000.        Imagine how just a little fiddling with some Easter calculations and a little calendar magic can postpone Armageddon?  That's pretty amazing.  The headline should be "God hates this one little trick!"  Reframing the end of the world based on christ was a huge success.             mwc  
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    • Casualfanboy16

      Casualfanboy16

      This is my 666th post, I think. What should I do for this momentous occasion?
       
      edit: fuck nevermind..... status updates don't count as posts... cringe
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    • Casualfanboy16

      Casualfanboy16

      If I go to Hell I want my preferred method of torture to be spun around and cooked like a silly little rotisserie chicken. 🍗
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